World Cup 2014 Super Thread copyright warning #1645

06-06-2014 12:42AM

Pro. F wrote: »

This is very subjective and you can just choose to quibble with any comparison I bring up. But fúck it, I'll try to stick to the more obvious, less controversial, ones.

France:
Evra < Cole
Sakho < Terry

Brazil:
David Luiz at CB < Terry, Shawcross and Dawson
Marcelo and Maxwell < Ashley Cole

Argentina:
Demichelis < Terry (and I'm sure Argetina have a few more weak CBs)
Maxi Rodriguez < Lennon, A Johnson, Jay Rodriguez, etc, etc.

I'm not very familiar with their defence (by all reports it's very weak), but are you telling me that all the left-backs in their squad are better than Cole?

Netherlands:
De Jong < Britton, Cork, Carrick and Barry
Clasie at DCM < Britton and Cork (although I do like Clasie, he's just not as good as those two)

Italy, Spain and Germany I'll give you.

I'm sure I've missed plenty more in all that, but searching around and comparing the weaker players in each top WC squad isn't the easiest job. The truth is you could say what you said about the English squad about most ofthe big sides at the tournament.

Ashley Cole as his peak was better than Marcelo. I would pick Marcelo every day of the week over him now. Evra and Cole are both shadows of their former selves.

Ferris_Bueller · 06-06-2014 12:50AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ashley Cole as his peak was better than Marcelo. I would pick Marcelo every day of the week over him now. Evra and Cole are both shadows of their former selves.

Agreed, Marcelo gets a lot of flack but I think he is arguably the best left back in the world, barring maybe Alaba. Although some will argue he isn't even the best left back at Real Madrid.

Also think David Luiz is miles ahead of Shawcross and Dawson, prone to the odd brainfart but still a very good player.

Paully D · 06-06-2014 12:51AM

Pro. F wrote: »

Playing your best players rather than only playing players that fit some system is hardly a controversial idea. Sure I've hear Carlo Ancelotti say that he chooses to do that, since he had problems with sticking too rigidly to a system early in his managerial career. Giles just didn't express it very well.

If you get over the fact that Giles doesn't express himself brilliantly and isn't usually familiar with players outside the PL/CL, he has a great understanding of the game and a lot of interesting things to say.

Ancelotti has had success with many different systems over the course of his managerial career, as the below article alludes to. He'd actually be one of the managers who jump out for me that have done very well largely down to the fact that he has used many different systems over the years, adapting at each club has been at.

http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2292/editorials/2014/04/30/4784904/ancelottis-tactical-nous-eclipses-peps-stubborn-philosophy

......Ancelotti is simply cut from a different cloth. His craving for ‘dynamic’ football leads him to explore various facets of footballing tactics. His goal remains the same but he recognizes the different routes to get him there and embraces various systems.

In his early managerial career he impressed with a 4-4-2 system at Parma and then at Juventus he deployed a 3-4-1-2 formation in order to use Zinedine Zidane behind Alessandro Del Piero and Filippo Inzaghi.

At AC Milan he enjoyed great success with the ‘diamond midfield’ that engineered the re-emergence of the deep lying playmaker or ‘regista’, a role Andrea Pirlo eventually flourished in. He then shifted to a 4-3-3 as Chelsea boss and finally, after a lot of tinkering, seemed to settle on a 4-3-2-1 system at Paris Saint-Germain.

At Madrid, his dynamic 4-3-3 system makes the most of the qualities of his players. The pace, energy and penetration they provide has set them apart over the last few months.

In the first leg against Bayern itself, he set his side up perfectly in a 4-4-2 and they could have scored more than the one goal if they made the most of their chances. With a full-strength squad on show at the Allianz Arena for the return fixture, they quickly rectified that by plundering four.
.....

Giles is stuck in the 60's/70's and can't accept at all that the game has moved on from then. He's another one of these dinosaurs who come out with the "I don't believe in tactics" rubbish.

Just as great players don't necessarily make great managers, the same goes for pundits. Even ignoring the fact that he's not the best at expressing himself (which pundits should be able to do, to be fair) Giles was obviously a great player but the game has long moved on from his era now, he hasn't.

Pro. F · 06-06-2014 12:52AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ashley Cole as his peak was better than Marcelo. I would pick Marcelo every day of the week over him now. Evra and Cole are both shadows of their former selves.

Cole isn't a shadow of his former self, nor anything like it.

06-06-2014 12:54AM

Pro. F wrote: »

Cole isn't a shadow of his former self, nor anything like it.

Why can't he get his game at Chelsea then?He was the best left back in the world for a period of time....

Pro. F · 06-06-2014 01:22AM

Paully D wrote: »

Ancelotti has had success with many different systems over the course of his managerial career, as the below article alludes to. He'd actually be one of the managers who jump out for me that have done very well largely down to the fact that he has used many different systems over the years, adapting at each club has been at.

http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/2292/editorials/2014/04/30/4784904/ancelottis-tactical-nous-eclipses-peps-stubborn-philosophy

Ancelotti is a manager who picks his system to fit the players he has at his disposal. That gets hailed as tactical genius because he is successful, yet when a pundit auld lad espouses the same thinking he is slagged off for it.

Ancelotti: “When I was at Parma I had the opportunity to buy Roberto Baggio who liked to play as an offensive midfielder behind the striker. I said to him ‘I want you to play striker because I don’t want to change the system’. It was a mistake because Baggio was a great player and I needed to find a position for him.
“As a manager you must know the characteristics of the players and build a system where the players are comfortable. I cannot think that Ronaldo has to work in the same way as Angel di Maria or Luka Modric or Sergio Ramos – they have different characteristics.” link

Paully D wrote: »

Giles is stuck in the 60's/70's and can't accept at all that the game has moved on from then. He's another one of these dinosaurs who come out with the "I don't believe in tactics" rubbish.

It's just a miscommunication. The guy obviously sees and acknowledges the importance of organisation and tactics. He praises teams who are well organised for that all the time.

It's only when bullshít artists start waffling on about tactics as if they're more important than skill and motivation that he comes out with the "I don't believe in tactics" type of line.

Paully D wrote: »

Just as great players don't necessarily make great managers, the same goes for pundits. Even ignoring the fact that he's not the best at expressing himself (which pundits should be able to do, to be fair) Giles was obviously a great player but the game has long moved on from his era now, he hasn't.

I'm happy to put up with a pundit who can't express himself so well when he has such a good understanding of the game and is such a good judge of a player and is willing to go against the grain of popular opinion. Give me him over a smooth talking spoofer any day.

Pro. F · 06-06-2014 01:24AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Why can't he get his game at Chelsea then?He was the best left back in the world for a period of time....

For the same reason that Mata couldn't get his game at Chelsea. Because Mourinho liked another player more than him.

Paully D · 06-06-2014 02:02AM

Pro. F wrote: »

Ancelotti is a manager who picks his system to fit the players he has at his disposal. That gets hailed as tactical genius because he is successful, yet when a pundit auld lad espouses the same thinking he is slagged off for it.

But Giles clearly didn't have the same thinking. He specifically said "I don't believe in systems in football", but you're just putting it down to him not being able to express himself. It sounds pretty clear what he said to me. Even the worst communicator in the world couldn't say that but yet mean something else.

Pro. F · 06-06-2014 02:17AM

Paully D wrote: »

But Giles clearly didn't have the same thinking. He specifically said "I don't believe in systems in football", but you're just putting it down to him not being able to express himself. It sounds pretty clear what he said to me. Even the worst communicator in the world couldn't say that but yet mean something else.

This is utterly stupid. You don't seem to have the slightest notion of how conversation and spoken language works.

Dickerty · 06-06-2014 08:08AM

Absolutely AWESOME WC ad for Beats here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_i3Lcjli84

glued · 06-06-2014 08:21AM

Pro. F wrote: »

This is very subjective and you can just choose to quibble with any comparison I bring up. But fúck it, I'll try to stick to the more obvious, less controversial, ones.

France:
Evra < Cole
Sakho < Terry

Brazil:
David Luiz at CB < Terry, Shawcross and Dawson
Marcelo and Maxwell < Ashley Cole

Argentina:
Demichelis < Terry (and I'm sure Argetina have a few more weak CBs)
Maxi Rodriguez < Lennon, A Johnson, Jay Rodriguez, etc, etc.

I'm not very familiar with their defence (by all reports it's very weak), but are you telling me that all the left-backs in their squad are better than Cole?

Netherlands:
De Jong < Britton, Cork, Carrick and Barry
Clasie at DCM < Britton and Cork (although I do like Clasie, he's just not as good as those two)

Italy, Spain and Germany I'll give you.

I'm sure I've missed plenty more in all that, but searching around and comparing the weaker players in each top WC squad isn't the easiest job. The truth is you could say what you said about the English squad about most of the big sides at the tournament.

Are you serious about De Jong? Easily Milan's player of the year and had a much better season than those 4 players combined. Also Marcelo is currently a much better player than Cole. De Jong at his worst his still a much better player than the likes of Britton and Cork

Iused2likebusts · 06-06-2014 08:57AM

Pro. F wrote: »

This is very subjective and you can just choose to quibble with any comparison I bring up. But fúck it, I'll try to stick to the more obvious, less controversial, ones.

Brazil:
David Luiz at CB < Terry, Shawcross and Dawson

.

Luiz gets an awful press in england and has made a few errors. I feel his style of play is better served in a more possession based league than in england. For brazil a team that will want a footballing centre back he is nearly as good as they come. Thinking of the likes of shawcross/dawson in a brazil jersey is no comparison. Im sure luiz will do well at psg and would have no problem playing at real/barca IMO. I agree with a fair few of your other comparisons particularly Cole who has been written off way too early.

greendom · 06-06-2014 09:09AM

Luiz and Thiago Silva will probably be the best centre-back pairing at the World Cup. They work so well toghether.

patmac · 06-06-2014 09:42AM

K4t wrote: »

http://news.yahoo.com/protests-hit-brazil-eight-days-world-cup-005229845--sow.html

With more people using their cars, bumper-to-bumper traffic stretched for up to 209 kilometers (135 miles), the worst congestion so far this year and the third worst ever recorded in the sprawling mega-city of 20 million people.
..

Jaysus that's some tail back, looks like the whole thing is getting very messy.

Liamalone · 06-06-2014 11:46AM

Dickerty wrote: »

Absolutely AWESOME WC ad for Beats here...

Where's the awesomeness? Nowt special imo

Dont be at yourself · 06-06-2014 01:01PM

Anybody picked up any of the soccer mags for their world cup previews? Doing a bit of traveling next week and looking for reading material...

patmac · 06-06-2014 01:09PM

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Anybody picked up any of the soccer mags for their world cup previews? Doing a bit of traveling next week and looking for reading material...

When Saturday Comes is excellent if they have a World Cup edition.

Kylo Ren · 06-06-2014 01:19PM

Dickerty wrote: »

Absolutely AWESOME WC ad for Beats here...

I find the Beats ads pretty ridiculous but this is an amazing spoof

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq94liFIBRY

eh i dunno · 06-06-2014 01:26PM

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Anybody picked up any of the soccer mags for their world cup previews? Doing a bit of traveling next week and looking for reading material...

cant beat 442. 2 free mags for the world cup. One last month and one this month

I am pie · 06-06-2014 01:29PM

Local news here showing cops battering heads in the Sao Paulo subway this morning, subway workers striking for higher wages and threatening to continue. Saying here that Sao Paula will be at a standstill if no subway trains run.

They gave all public sector works the day off for Brasil games in Sao Paulo, I wouldn't be surprised if they just extended it to all games. Trying to alleviate the transport issues.

K4t · 06-06-2014 01:39PM

I am pie wrote: »

Local news here showing cops battering heads in the Sao Paulo subway this morning, subway workers striking for higher wages and threatening to continue. Saying here that Sao Paula will be at a standstill if no subway trains run.

They gave all public sector works the day off for Brasil games in Sao Paulo, I wouldn't be surprised if they just extended it to all games. Trying to alleviate the transport issues.

Which is fine but what if the unthinkable happens and they get knocked out early?! Everybody will turn on the government. Things could get very, very messi.

GLaDOS · 06-06-2014 01:45PM

Dickerty wrote: »

Absolutely AWESOME WC ad for Beats here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_i3Lcjli84

The girl at 3:00 looks like she's having fun

glued · 06-06-2014 01:51PM

The FourFourTwo complete guide to the World Cup is absolutely rubbish.

aodea · 06-06-2014 01:51PM

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Anybody picked up any of the soccer mags for their world cup previews? Doing a bit of traveling next week and looking for reading material...

World soccer is excellent, only draw back is its before the sqauds were announced but still very close. The Racing post world cup guide is tremndous as well. really breaks down the figures.

Utopia Parkway · 06-06-2014 01:56PM

Ribery ruled out of WC.

I am pie · 06-06-2014 01:58PM

K4t wrote: »

Which is fine but what if the unthinkable happens and they get knocked out early?! Everybody will turn on the government. Things could get very, very messi.

The people that might turn on the govt already have, some protests have just cause but you have to feel that the subway workers is an example of unionised opportunism.

I can't see Brasil dropping out too early, but if they did drop out I think you're more likely to see mass indifference rather than violence. Again, anyone with a bone to pick is already out protesting and don't really care about the national team. You might see a few riots and absolute transport shutdown, but nothing much worse.

I am pie · 06-06-2014 01:59PM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Ribery ruled out of WC.

Shame, last WC for him at his age.

xtal191 · 06-06-2014 02:00PM

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Anybody picked up any of the soccer mags for their world cup previews? Doing a bit of traveling next week and looking for reading material...

The guide in the Racing Post is bay far the best, I think it was only in yesterdays one though.

Vinz Mesrine · 06-06-2014 02:01PM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Ribery ruled out of WC.

Didn't he train today?

Anyone · 06-06-2014 02:01PM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Ribery ruled out of WC.

Massive blow to the underage prostitution industry of Brazil.

World Cup 2014 Super Thread copyright warning #1645

Comments