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Senior Hurling Championship 2014

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Comments

  • #242
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    If Westmeath or Antrim got to play Kilkenny at home they would have 7-10k at it.
    Laois and Antrim are slowly improving, but they won't make big advances unless they ge tot play the better teams.

    It should not be a two tier system. (the round robin is really being used to decide who was relegated this year - London)


  • #243
    Grats
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Grats


    They tried the one tier system before and teams were taking pastings. This latest system was agreed and every county was aware of the fixtures etc last autumn. If they're not happy with it now then they should refuse to play under that system next year. Antrim are in a good position in that they can withdraw from the Leinster championship. Being a Leinster county Laois should get, at the very least, equal treatment to Galway.


  • #244
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Grats wrote: »
    They tried the one tier system before and teams were taking pastings. This latest system was agreed and every county was aware of the fixtures etc last autumn. If they're not happy with it now then they should refuse to play under that system next year. Antrim are in a good position in that they can withdraw from the Leinster championship. Being a Leinster county Laois should get, at the very least, equal treatment to Galway.

    who decides the format of it though? The stronger hurling counties!


  • #245
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,836 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    The only thing wrong with the system IMO is the frequency of games. Maybe they should get more of a break in between games.

    But the round-robin system is good. No point in returning to the open draw in the Leinster championship where teams were getting absolutely slaughtered.


  • #246
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,836 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Laois and Antrim are slowly improving, but they won't make big advances unless they ge tot play the better teams.

    How do you know this?

    I could just as easily say getting a hiding off a top team would set them back.
    Maybe they are slowly improving because they are playing against teams at a level where they have a chance of progressing?


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  • #247
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    robbiezero wrote: »
    How do you know this?

    I could just as easily say getting a hiding off a top team would set them back.
    Maybe they are slowly improving because they are playing against teams at a level where they have a chance of progressing?

    To progress at anything you have to play teams that are better than you.
    The same as any sport.

    The league needs to be restructured as well (again) to give Laois, Antrim etc a chance to play some of the top teams. There are far better formats out there that could be used


  • #248
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,836 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    To progress at anything you have to play teams that are better than you.
    The same as any sport.

    The league needs to be restructured as well (again) to give Laois, Antrim etc a chance to play some of the top teams. There are far better formats out there that could be used

    I agree. They should bring in some sort of system in the league where a team that is good enough could rise up the divisions and team that aren't good enough would have to drop down divisions.
    Some sort of promotion/relegation system. I think it would work quite well.


  • #249
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    robbiezero wrote: »
    I agree. They should bring in some sort of system in the league where a team that is good enough could rise up the divisions and team that aren't good enough would have to drop down divisions.
    Some sort of promotion/relegation system. I think it would work quite well.

    The promotion system is a joke in hurling.
    You finish top of a league (Kerry) but STILL have a playoff to go up.

    Just to give the top teams another chance to stay up.


  • #250
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    To progress at anything you have to play teams that are better than you.
    The same as any sport.

    Very true. A team needs to play someone better than them, but not too much better that they'll be wiped out and learn nothing. The problem there is by it's nature, teams will have to play against poorer opposition as well, which they won't like. The likes of Kerry should be playing Laois/Antrim. They will have no interest and prefer to play against Wexford or Waterford who in turn would rather play against the likes of Kilkenny or Tipp.
    robbiezero wrote: »
    I agree. They should bring in some sort of system in the league where a team that is good enough could rise up the divisions and team that aren't good enough would have to drop down divisions.
    Some sort of promotion/relegation system. I think it would work quite well.

    You'd think it would but the reality shows that it's not really the case. League playoffs are pointless and just used as a means to protect stronger counties and keep smaller counties down.


  • #251
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,815 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    The promotion system is a joke in hurling.
    You finish top of a league (Kerry) but STILL have a playoff to go up.

    Just to give the top teams another chance to stay up.

    You finish top of the league AND win the final before playing the play-off.


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  • #252
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    keane2097 wrote: »
    You finish top of the league AND win the final before playing the play-off.

    so an extra two games for what?


  • #253
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,815 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    so an extra two games for what?

    For to keep Offaly up and the poor relation counties down presumably.


  • #254
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    To be honest I can see the value in a play off. If you are not good enough to beat the bottom team from the higher division then you may not be best served by moving up.

    I don't understand the inconsistency between what happens between 1a and 1b against what happens between 1b and 2 though.

    Personally I'd like to see them leave the league alone for a few years, it seems that every year they make changes, those changes don't suit somebody and they start complaining in the media and there are more changes again the following year, only for someone else to be put out by the new changes and the cycle to start all over again.


  • #255
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,815 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    adrian522 wrote: »
    To be honest I can see the value in a play off. If you are not good enough to beat the bottom team from the higher division then you may not be best served by moving up.

    The team you are "not good enough to beat" in a one off game have had the entire league to not come last which they weren't good enough to do, then a relegation play off where they weren't good enough to beat the second worst team in the division and still get yet another get out of jail chance.

    Just how much worse can the lower league's team perform if they got promoted, as their achievements would grant them the opportunity of in almost any other sport in the world?

    Offaly are considered "good enough" despite a woeful campaign, Kerry are considered "not good enough" despite a brilliant campaign, all against a backdrop of a schedule change which saw the Carlow game moved from Saturday to Sunday, and the Offaly game moved from Sunday to Saturday the following week to allow them two days less recovery and preparation time.


  • #256
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Like it or not there is a significant gap between the likes of Offaly and Kerry. That is unfortunate but it is just the way it is.

    Actually it is the very reason Kerry have elected to stay at Christy ring level rather than move up to compete against some of these teams at MacCarthy cup level even though they have won the CR cup.

    I don't think Kerry would be best served by playing Limerick/Waterford etc in division 1B, but I don't think there is an easy solution either.

    I think if Offaly went down and Kerry went up there would be a lot of very one sided games in both divisions in next years league.


  • #257
    Grats
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Grats


    I was familiar with the format before it ever started. What I didn't know was that Offaly would end up where they did. Presumably nobody else knew that either so suggesting that the play off was designed to save Offaly is stupid.

    Now that all counties are up to speed let them demand changes. Pity they didn't make a fuss before this years kicked off.

    Anyway back to next weekend, Tipp should beat Limerick comfortably. Wexford to beat Antrim and Galway to steamroll Laois.


  • #258
    Hotale.com
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭Hotale.com


    Is the Cork vs Waterford replay on telly does anyone know?


  • #259
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    Hotale.com wrote: »
    Is the Cork vs Waterford replay on telly does anyone know?

    No, it couldn't be fitted into the tv schedule but RTE have said they'll be streaming it live on RTE Player


  • #260
    Hotale.com
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭Hotale.com


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    No, it couldn't be fitted into the tv schedule but RTE have said they'll be streaming it live on RTE Player

    That'll do grand, cheers :)


  • #261
    adrian522
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    No, it couldn't be fitted into the tv schedule but RTE have said they'll be streaming it live on RTE Player

    Where are sky when you need them? Plenty of room on their schedules


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  • #262
    Vanolder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭Vanolder


    Tipp by 8


  • #263
    glued
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭glued


    Vanolder wrote: »
    Tipp by 8

    Not a chance. Same was said last year. We won't beat Limerick by 8. I think it'll be another tight game. Id say limerick will start strong too.


  • #264
    Grats
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Grats


    Tipp by 10+. Unfortunately for Limerick they are meeting a Tipp team improving with every outing. Tipp are oozing with confidence now after their brilliant displays in the league semi and final. And they have Lar back. Limerick will regroup though and get their game going through the back door.


  • #265
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    The promotion system is a joke in hurling.
    You finish top of a league (Kerry) but STILL have a playoff to go up.

    Just to give the top teams another chance to stay up.

    And furthermore Kerry were forced to play two games in eight days while Offaly had a fortnight's break, just to be sure to be sure.


  • #266
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    That's bull.
    Most of the counties in football wouldn't bother then

    And pray what is your bull-free solution?


  • #267
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    The promotion system is a joke in hurling.
    You finish top of a league (Kerry) but STILL have a playoff to go up.

    Just to give the top teams another chance to stay up.

    And furthermore Kerry were forced to play two games in eight days while Offaly had a fortnight's break, just to be sure to be sure.


  • #268
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,668 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    A big plus for whoever wins in the Tipp limerick match is that the winner is guaranteed at least an all Ireland quarter final spot.

    The winners of the Waterford cork replay have the task of playing the all Ireland champions Clare in the semi while Tipp could have to only win one game and there at least in the all Ireland quarter finals. Crazy system but it has to do

    It's also weird to have a semi final will ne over before a quarter final replay( well if the semi is a draw then there's another problem). Why on earth wasn't the Munster qf replay played on Saturday 31st may


  • #269
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    A big plus for whoever wins in the Tipp limerick match is that the winner is guaranteed at least an all Ireland quarter final spot.

    The winners of the Waterford cork replay have the task of playing the all Ireland champions Clare in the semi while Tipp could have to only win one game and there at least in the all Ireland quarter finals. Crazy system but it has to do

    It's also weird to have a semi final will ne over before a quarter final replay( well if the semi is a draw then there's another problem). Why on earth wasn't the Munster qf replay played on Saturday 31st may

    Id do away with the knock out/backdoor system in munster and leinster.

    Turn it into a league. 6/7 teams in each province. All teams play each other once and top 4 teams go into the quarters. You are still playing for munster and leinster as well and there are more games and more games for smaller teams.

    It wont happen of course. But for me that would be a good system for smaller teams and would be more cohesive and more games.


  • #270
    premierstone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭premierstone


    Will be very interesting to see what team Eamon O'Shea picks, Lar Corbett, Gar Ryan and Paddy Stapelton will all be pushing hard for a place but I suspect he may stick with the 15 that started the league final, Denis Maher probably being the most in danger, but I think he will start as he offers a good balance to teh forward unit and unlike a lot of Tipp forwards he has a great workrate, something that is vital when you have a number of 'stylish' hurlers like Callinan, Noel McGrath and Bubbles.

    I would be disapointed if Tipp don't win comfortably enough, last years reversal should remove any danger of complacency and Tipp will be well aware that despite recent upheavals in Limerick they will be all guns blazing on Sunday and as the Limerick boys love reminding us 'Limerick never feared Tipp''.

    Tipp by 8+ for me with Bonner and Callinan stealing the show.


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  • #271
    Grats
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Grats


    premierstone wrote: »
    Will be very interesting to see what team Eamon O'Shea picks, Lar Corbett, Gar Ryan and Paddy Stapelton will all be pushing hard for a place but I suspect he may stick with the 15 that started the league final, Denis Maher probably being the most in danger, but I think he will start as he offers a good balance to teh forward unit and unlike a lot of Tipp forwards he has a great workrate, something that is vital when you have a number of 'stylish' hurlers like Callinan, Noel McGrath and Bubbles.

    I would be disapointed if Tipp don't win comfortably enough, last years reversal should remove any danger of complacency and Tipp will be well aware that despite recent upheavals in Limerick they will be all guns blazing on Sunday and as the Limerick boys love reminding us 'Limerick never feared Tipp''.

    Tipp by 8+ for me with Bonner and Callinan stealing the show.

    Heard Michael Duignan on radio this morning questioning the reasoning behind delaying the announcement of the Tipp team until Sat. As he said it would already be with the program printers and he himself thinks it shows a certain lack of confidence.

    With regards to your prediction, I agree and also think that Tipp should win by 8+. Their form in the knock out stages of the league suggests they are ready to pounce this year and certainly shouldn't be caught napping on Sunday.


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