Senior Hurling Championship 2014

Realt Dearg Sec · 21-05-2014 04:23PM #1

Noticed we don't have a thread for the championship, which I think is necessary because otherwise discussion gets ghettoised into the various county threads and there's no general discussion on how things are panning out.

Of course the early stages of the Leinster championship are well under way and things are starting to take shape there, and Cork V Waterford is only around the corner. So it's probably time for people to start nailing their flags to the mast as regards predictions for Munster, Leinster, any teams they think will be surprise packages, any team you think is going to fail spectacularly, emerging players to look out for, and, of course, who you think is going to be going up the steps in September?

KevIRL · 21-05-2014 04:50PM

Think tipp will win Munster this year

crazy_kenny · 21-05-2014 04:52PM

Waterford in transition this year. Hopefully not a drumming against Cork. I reckon Tipperary v Kilkenny final come September.

premierstone · 21-05-2014 05:10PM

Right, I'll put myself up as the first to be shot at

Firstly I think Kerry will win the Christy Ring and I think they are making incredible progress, they have a really well drilled exciting young team and I think they will be a mainstay in the Liam McCarthy within a few years, Shane Nolan is every bit as good if not better than Shane Brick was FWIW.

Leinster
Wexford I think are really on the right track aswell and will progress again as will Laois although Offaly look to be heading the complete opposite direction, god only knows what Galway will do and I still think there is a major issue among their panel that needs sorting. Dublin were very impressive last year and were extremely unlucky not to make the AI, they seem to have somehow managed to creep back the radar, its difficult to know whether they slightly over achieved last year or whether it was natural progression and they will improve again, I suspect the latter but certainly wouldnt rule out the former. All in all though Kilkenny are rightly the favourites here and have the best team, best bench, best manager and are hurting after last year, only one winner of the Bob O'Keefe cup.

Munster
This should be a very competitive championship in theory with all 5 having a reasonable expectation of winning the cup, with the possible exception of Waterford, although even that would not be the biggest shock in the world, although the draw and the injuries have been particularly unkind to them. on that bais I exoect Cork to beat them this weekend, Cork have improved hugley under JBM but still have a few weaknesses, I don't think Waterford have enough to take advantage though. This would then leave Cork v Clare in a rematch of last years AI fianls and both teams will want to take the direct route to Croker so it should be a hummdinger.

Corks half back line is very weak IMO and they dont have a natural FB as of yet either, however they have in Lehane, Pebbles, Horgan and Harnedy the foundations of a serious forward line and they will always put up a decent score. Clare were extremely impressive last year and probably even suprised themselves if the truth be known, their biggest problem is the under dog tag and the unknown is gone, they have a very obvious weakness in the FB line and a very defined style of hurling that other teams have been both adjusting to and copying, I still think they will have just enough to get past Cork but it will be very close.

On the other side of the draw Limerick seem to be in all sorts of dissaray, but how often have we seen if before that Limerick produce their very best when their backs are against the wall and invariably this happens against Tipp. I expect and extremely passionate and focused Limerick to turn up but If i'm completley honest I still don't think it will be enough and would be very dissapointed if Tipp didnt have quite a bit to spare in the end. EOS is fianlly getting to put his stamp on this Tipp team and they are hurling with alot more freedom and confidence, the most pleasing aspect I think has been the performance of the newcomers like Cathal Barrett, James Barry and Niall O'Meara which has meant we will now have genuine options from the bench which wasn't always the case for example from the team that lined out in the league final you also have Paddy Stapelton, Paul Curran, Gar Ryan, Lar Corbett, Shane Bourke, Shane McGrath all pushing for places.

In the final itself, if my predictions pan out it will be a Tipp V Clare final in Limerick and that would be sure to generate plenty of spice shall we say

I don't for a second believe some claims that were made that Clar were not interested or not trying in the league semi, they were simply beaten by a better team on the day, this game will be the same, as in it will be all on the day, I would be hopefull that Tipp will prevail but wouldnt be overly confident.

All Ireland

Persoanlly I think come September we will be back to Kilkenny and Tipp again and unfortunately I see no reason why the result will be any different to the vast majority of games between the two over the recent past, although I do think EOS has built a strionger panel than Tipp have had for a number of years and that Tipp ar certainly going the right way, I think though this year may be a year too soon and that a wounded KK may be a bridge too far, this of course could all change if Lar hits the ground running and explodes into the championship - we live in hope!

savannahkat · 21-05-2014 06:53PM

I have to agree with you Premierstone, so no stones coming from this direction.

Clare were very much under the radar last year. This year it is an entirely different ball game for them. Having said that Tipp are the only ones whom I can see beating them in Munster.

Limerick can do a job on Tipp but only if the wrong Tipp turn up. Tipp are hardly going to make that mistake again. Tipp for Munster

Galway could blow Kilkenny away if they hit one of their purple patch days but they will be relying on hitting that purple patch and no one knows least of all themselves
as to what ignites those days for them. If Galway don't then Kilkenny will take them and I believe they will take Dublin too. Kilkenny for Leinster

In the qualifiers with all the rest coming into the system at different times if they do not meet beforehand I think Clare and Galway will advance to the semi finals. Kilkeny V Clare and Tipp V Galway with a Tipp Kilkenny Final and that will be 50/50.

Vanolder · 21-05-2014 08:16PM

Limerick for Liam.

Roquentin · 21-05-2014 08:20PM

Galway to win. Beat clare in the quarters, tipp in the semi and then avenge kilkenny in the final

Roquentin · 21-05-2014 08:25PM

savannahkat wrote: »

I have to agree with you Premierstone, so no stones coming from this direction.

Clare were very much under the radar last year. This year it is an entirely different ball game for them. Having said that Tipp are the only ones whom I can see beating them in Munster.

Limerick can do a job on Tipp but only if the wrong Tipp turn up. Tipp are hardly going to make that mistake again. Tipp for Munster

Galway could blow Kilkenny away if they hit one of their purple patch days but they will be relying on hitting that purple patch and no one knows least of all themselves
as to what ignites those days for them. If Galway don't then Kilkenny will take them and I believe they will take Dublin too. Kilkenny for Leinster

In the qualifiers with all the rest coming into the system at different times if they do not meet beforehand I think Clare and Galway will advance to the semi finals. Kilkeny V Clare and Tipp V Galway with a Tipp Kilkenny Final and that will be 50/50.

Galway are better off losing in leinster. Get an easyish quarter final and then try and come all out guns blazing for the semi and final.

Galway can only produce two top performances a year and then other teams cop on and see what they are doing.

The thing about galway hurlers is the pressure gets to them big time. So when there is not a lot expected they deliver, but when they are expected to deliver they mess up. Performance anxiety.

Grats · 21-05-2014 08:50PM

Read an article over last weekend about Clare and how they have four different game plans. Davy originally presented six, apparently, to the panel and they settled on four that they have fine tuned and can implement as required. Have to say that if they were able to operate in this way there would be no stopping them.

As was posted already Clare will be very much up in lights this year with every team devising plans to beat them. Whether Clare have the maturity and steel to win all their game this year remains to be seen. I think they will be beaten in Munster but will end up in the All Ireland final by which stage they will be very hard to beat. So it's Tipp for me to win Munster.

Galway appeared to be finding a more settled outfit in the latter stages of the league and should they continue this progress they will be hard to beat in Leinster. Tannian will be tested in a big way and because of his indiscipline could cost his team yet. In a close game this would be critical. I think Dublin may have missed the boat last year when they were very unfortunate to lose to Cork. Despite their underage success they don't seem to have unearthed any new talent during the league. Wexford might just do it against Dublin in Wexford Park this year - they were unlucky not to beat them there last year. Kilkenny are on a mission after last years disappointing campaign which was full of injuries and hard luck. Should their main players stay fit this year they should win Leinster.

As I said earlier, if Clare are capable of interchanging their four game plans they get to the All Ireland Final. In that case they will beat Kilkenny in the semi and Tipp in the Final.

Hotale.com · 21-05-2014 09:03PM

Leinster

As much as I hate to say it, I think Kilkenny will at least come within a point or two of getting to an AI final and they should win Leinster. Talk of the end of an era of success is a bit premature in my opinion.

If Canning doesn't carry Galway they don't have a chance of winning anything or even getting close unless they improve drastically on last year.

I could see Dublin getting to the AI final but I don't think they'd win it, and they've a serious chance of doing a Leinster 2-in-a-row.

Munster

This is we're the real fun begins, any of Tipp, Cork and Clare could win the AI in my opinion, I'd have considered Limerick as contenders as well if it wasn't for the O'Grady farce. Waterford are coming back again but I can't see them getting past the quarter finals this year if they get a tough draw; the only team that are traditionally competetitive that I could see them beating are Galway, unless they seriously surprise us this year.

I don't think Cork will get to the AI final this year, Kilkenny are definitely better than their quarter final display last year (although as a Corkman that was one or the best victories I've ever seen) and they were a bit lucky last year against a very competitive Dublin side. Still deserved to get to the final though but their performance in the first final was disgraceful, at least they redeemed themselves in the replay. Could see them winning Munster and maybe getting to a final but I think they'd struggle against Clare, Kilkenny or Dublin if they met them in Croke Park and they weren't on top form. They should definitely beat Waterford on Sunday, but after that things get really tough. In JBM we trust!

I don't know what to think of Clare, I'm still not fully convinced their heroic performances last year weren't simply a flash in the pan. They certainly have the ability to win Munster and do an AI 2-in-a-row, but I'm not sure if they can reach the same heights they did last year. They looked extremely average in their Munster game against Cork last year and if they're any bit like that this year they won't win. The fact they weren't really seen as contenders until the QF helped them an awful lot last year, they definitely won't go under the radar like that this year.

I simply don't rate Tipp. They could win Munster based on their history of being competitive, but they've been dire over the last few seasons in the Championship. Unless they perform exponentially better this season than last season I could see Clare or Cork (providing they beat Waterford) giving them a good beating in the final (if Limerick don't scrape past them). Although of course this could all be wrong and I'll look like a fool, but I don't think League form has any real bearing on Championship performance.

Limerick are after going backwards this year, mainly due to their ridiculous county board. O'Grady's resignation shows that there's trouble in their camp, and after the huge disappointment of last year's Semi-Final against Clare I don't think they'll do anything special. Could see them maybe scraping past Tipp although I think Tipp will end up winning that match by 7 or 8 points. Only teams I could see them beating are Galway and Waterford.

Waterford are a coming team and their minor victory last year could really invigorate their young panel and lead to some serious contention for trophies in a few years time. I think they could beat Cork on Sunday although they're definitely underdogs, this season will be more about developing youngsters than winning silverware although that'll obviously be the aim for any decent hurling county like Waterford. Give them 3 years and I could see them challenging for Munsters and All Irelands again, it's a bit too soon this year to be thinking of them as contenders if you ask me.

Overall

If I were to rank the teams based on likelihood of winning the All-Ireland I'd have it like this:
1. Kilkenny
2. Clare
3. Cork
4. Dublin (very close to being no. 3)
5. Tipperary
6. Galway
7. Limerick
8. Waterford

Fireball07 · 21-05-2014 09:11PM

Vanolder wrote: »

Limerick for Liam.

TJ and Davy Clarke will lead us to glory!

savannahkat · 22-05-2014 03:11AM

I love the Clare 4 plans for different occasions but as a great general once said there is only one plan that works "get there first with the most artillery" Me thinks that when Brian Cody was just a babe his mother read to him from the same generals biography:D

feargale · 22-05-2014 04:56AM

Roquentin wrote: »

Galway to win. Beat clare in the quarters, tipp in the semi and then avenge kilkenny in the final

But what if they meet Laois?

Orizio · 22-05-2014 08:01AM

Vanolder wrote: »

Limerick for Liam.

Well you have to say one thing, Limerick don't fear anyone.

Orizio · 22-05-2014 08:05AM

Tipp won't be within an arses roar of an AI. Kilkenny/Clare final all the way, with the outside chance Dublin pull a shock.

citykat · 22-05-2014 08:23AM

There is very little between KK, Tipp, Clare and Dub for me. Cork and Galway are a little further back. Whoever can manage injuries optimally will be top dog come September. If KK can stay reasonably injury-free they’re no. 1 for me. This is a big ask. They’re league champions, they’ve a lot of miles on the clock and they’re still going to be reliant in the main on their most experienced players.
Whoever wins Leinster and Munster will contest the All Ireland as I think having to plough to through the qualifiers is too attritional when margins are so tight.
Think Dublin blew their chance last year; think Galway blew their chance in 2012 and haven’t been able to build on it. Think Clare rode their luck last year and won’t enjoy the same fortune this year. Think Cork were even luckier last year and overachieved.
At the moment. KK to win Leinster, Tipp to win Munster and KK to win the AI by a point or two.

MfMan · 22-05-2014 10:24AM

Grats wrote: »

Read an article over last weekend about Clare and how they have four different game plans. Davy originally presented six, apparently, to the panel and they settled on four that they have fine tuned and can implement as required. Have to say that if they were able to operate in this way there would be no stopping them.

As was posted already Clare will be very much up in lights this year with every team devising plans to beat them. Whether Clare have the maturity and steel to win all their game this year remains to be seen. I think they will be beaten in Munster but will end up in the All Ireland final by which stage they will be very hard to beat. So it's Tipp for me to win Munster.

Galway appeared to be finding a more settled outfit in the latter stages of the league and should they continue this progress they will be hard to beat in Leinster. Tannian will be tested in a big way and because of his indiscipline could cost his team yet. In a close game this would be critical. I think Dublin may have missed the boat last year when they were very unfortunate to lose to Cork. Despite their underage success they don't seem to have unearthed any new talent during the league. Wexford might just do it against Dublin in Wexford Park this year - they were unlucky not to beat them there last year. Kilkenny are on a mission after last years disappointing campaign which was full of injuries and hard luck. Should their main players stay fit this year they should win Leinster.

As I said earlier, if Clare are capable of interchanging their four game plans they get to the All Ireland Final. In that case they will beat Kilkenny in the semi and Tipp in the Final.

Fairly good summation; point about Tannian's discipline is a good one.

Leinster;
For all the whole-hearted endeavour, I thought the NHL final was short on forward quality. KK won with only one playing very well, Tipp' had a lot of chances to put them away but couldn't. Note that a few players that were taken off had to be brought back on again, hardly an endorsement of the strength in depth of both squads. How KK do in this post-Shefflin world will be interesting to observe, they also have uncertainty in the central defensive positions and a not-entirely-settled midfield. An Offaly win in Nowlan park would be a surprise but not beyond the bounds of possibility. Dublin could suffer second-season syndrome, still don't think they're anywhere nearly as good as others make out, and Wexford at home will surely be a good bet to prevail, at least in a handicap bet. For some reason, Galway were tipped as contenders last year, despite being absolutely shocking in the league. This year, their league form was better yet no-one is putting them forward for success. IMHO, they are a better team now, at least in terms of defensive and midfield solidity and options, than at any time over the past 2-3 years; the new recruits have been very promising. A strong HF line is absolutely critical to their prospects for 2014 and big seasons are needed from Conor Cooney and Niall Burke. (Will St. Thomas' early c'ship exit make their county men all the hungrier for action in the maroon shirt?)
Province is very open with the winner to come from the Galway/KK clash, presuming they meet.

Munster;
Also very open. Don't think Cork are yet the complete team, talk of them being as good as anyone from 8-15 is fanciful, but like Cork of old, the longer they prevail, the more dangerous they become. Waterford look to be struggling to settle on a team, injuries and relegation to 1B are setbacks, and a good run through the qualifiers may be their best bet this season. All the negativity notwithstanding, Limerick will surely have enough pride to mount a stern defence of their title, but don't appear to have enough good players to be victorious. From 2-7, Tipp' are arguably the best in the country, but need a good no. 1, a better midfield and more productive attackers. Clare to me looked to be in third gear through the league and haven't shown their full hand; they improved a bit in every c'ship game last year throughout, which was impressive. They're young, fit, have a lot of players, and a savvy manager who can alter tactics as needs require. Don't think they're vulnerable to second-season malaise, that usually strikes teams who've narrowly failed the preceding year. Perhaps a small lack of finishing power may be their weakness.
Winner here to come from Clare/Tipp.

AI;
Couldn't even hazard a guess at semi-finalists or finalists. If all teams play to their best, I still think Clare are the best about, with dangers coming from Cork and maybe even Galway.

Vanolder · 22-05-2014 02:48PM

Orizio wrote: »

Well you have to say one thing, Limerick don't fear anyone.

We never have

savannahkat · 22-05-2014 06:23PM

Vanolder wrote: »

We never have

and ye never learn:)

Hotale.com · 22-05-2014 06:30PM

Do people really think Limerick have a chance of winning anything?

ShamoBuc · 22-05-2014 06:35PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Do people really think Limerick have a chance of winning anything?

No. Not a prayer.

Mountainlad · 22-05-2014 06:48PM

Dublin are one or two injuries away from not being a match for any of the top teams. The smallest squad in the Country.

It'll be interesting to see how we fare on Sunday. Bit dismayed to be honest, usually optimistic towards the blind allegiance end of the scale but hard to see us winning this one with the absentees.

One thing I'm certain of, is if Dublin were missing 7 starters and 2 of the first 4 subs used they'd be decimated by any of the top 7 teams. To be honest, with those injuries I don't think even the likes of Kilkenny or Clare would beat those teams capable of making the all-ireland quarters.

How we'll hold up on Sunday I just dunno, I do think that O'Keeffe will get the chance to show everyone the calibre of shot stopper he is. Waterford will start with the 15 named, as will Cork, but I'd expect positional changes from the off on both sides.

feargale · 22-05-2014 09:10PM

Orizio wrote: »

Well you have to say one thing, Limerick don't fear anyone.

Except themselves, if they know what.

feargale · 22-05-2014 09:11PM

Orizio wrote: »

Well you have to say one thing, Limerick don't fear anyone.

Except themselves, if they know what.

Gest · 22-05-2014 09:32PM

First of all I predict this year to be a great year for hurling. Clare are young and Davy will have them primed again at the right time.

I think that Tipp, KK, Cork and Galway all have scope to improve from last year and challenge Clare. Dublin are hard to figure out but are capable of beating anyone I feel. Even Wexford and Waterford are improving. Limerick the only team I think might disprove from last year.

Whoever wins it this year will definitely earn it.

My predictions are Tipp for Munster, Galway for Leinster and the Premier to beat the Banner in the All-Ireland. I am a Tipp man and would love to beat KK en route but that will be tough. Kilkenny I don't think have enough fresh legs to go all the way.

glued · 22-05-2014 09:37PM

Orizio wrote: »

Tipp won't be within an arses roar of an AI. Kilkenny/Clare final all the way, with the outside chance Dublin pull a shock.

Do you want to enlighten us as to why you think Tipp won't be within an arses roar of the AI?

savannahkat · 22-05-2014 11:35PM

What have Tipp done. They lost to Limerick and Kilkenny in last years championship. They were erratic in the early part of this years league. They beat Dublin by 3 points They had the one good win over Clare before losing to a very unfit Kilkenny team in their own backyard. It is not knocking Tipp but their record is anything but great. Apart from the win over Clare what have they done that would make any one look up and take notice. They have a long way to go and no amount of words from anyone scribe or manager will make them better than they really are.

Mountainlad · 22-05-2014 11:46PM

savannahkat wrote: »

What have Tipp done. They lost to Limerick and Kilkenny in last years championship. They were erratic in the early part of this years league. They beat Dublin by 3 points They had the one good win over Clare before losing to a very unfit Kilkenny team in their own backyard. It is not knocking Tipp but their record is anything but great. Apart from the win over Clare what have they done that would make any one look up and take notice. They have a long way to go and no amount of words from anyone scribe or manager will make them better than they really are.

You could probably make a similar argument about Kilkenny if you really tried hard enough.

The fact is both are very good hurling teams. I don't for a second buy this unfit Kilkenny business at all. Think it would only be fooling yerselves to suggest yer going to reach this superior level of fitness than everyone else, every team is roughly in the same boat fitness wise.

I don't see Kilkenny management really bleating on about that though in fairness, a lot of those noises coming from Clare though who are setting themselves up for a fall. This "We started late, look at how well we did" business only adds to the pressure on the players when the reality is there fitness levels won't have been much different to other teams. Finishing late in the year and starting back a little bit (and only a little bit) later than other teams really doesn't make a huge difference when you are talking about a pool of players as young as they are.

Gest · 22-05-2014 11:50PM

savannahkat wrote: »

What have Tipp done. They lost to Limerick and Kilkenny in last years championship. They were erratic in the early part of this years league. They beat Dublin by 3 points They had the one good win over Clare before losing to a very unfit Kilkenny team in their own backyard. It is not knocking Tipp but their record is anything but great. Apart from the win over Clare what have they done that would make any one look up and take notice. They have a long way to go and no amount of words from anyone scribe or manager will make them better than they really are.

Why do you say Kilkenny were very unfit?

Grats · 22-05-2014 11:53PM

Could somebody enlighten me with regards to the term "sweeper" which appears to have found its way into hurling? Is it very different to the the tactic of a seven man defence implemented by some counties over the years, most noticeably Dublin? From reading many articles and posts over the last number of months people seem to be infatuated by this "sweeper" thing. Will JBM use the sweeper system, Derek MCGrath must use the sweeper system, if you want to beat Clare you have to use the sweeper system!!!

And with regards to the possession game used by Clare - what is so different to it and that used by Cork under O'Grady or indeed by Tipp under Sheedy?

It seems to me that the more things change, the more they stay the same!

savannahkat · 23-05-2014 03:05AM

Mountainlad wrote: »

You could probably make a similar argument about Kilkenny if you really tried hard enough.

I am not disputing that at all if you base it on the past 12 months however if you want to judge it over 5 years, Kilkenny have a consistent record, Tipp do not.
I have seen nothing other that the printed word mostly quotes coming from the Tipp manager and some of the Tipp players about how great they are going. I did not see it in the league final.
They lost to a Kilkenny team playing poorly enough. Tipp played to their best in the same league final, Kilkenny did not, and there in lies the actual state of play.

Senior Hurling Championship 2014

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