Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

Hotblack Desiato · 15-05-2014 07:31AM

Has van Gaal been appointed yet?

Not yet

Hotblack Desiato · 15-05-2014 07:33AM

While hammering F5 on BBC Sportsday I saw this:

Arsenal midfielder Jack Wilshere has sought advice on how to improve his game from Paul Scholes in the wake of the former Manchester United man criticising his lack of progress.

In March, Scholes claimed Wilshere, 22, had not developed significantly as a player since making his debut in 2008.

"He was right in a certain way," said Wilshere, who made his England debut at 18. "We had quite a good chat. He explained it a bit better and told me what he thought I should work on."

Pretty sad indictment of both Arsenal and England's coaches, really.

TheDoc · 15-05-2014 07:37AM

Just re: Strootman

I think there is substance here.

Under 21 captain, has been widely regarded in his youth days as one to watch, and has met expectations early in his career with powerful dominating performances coupled with control and precision.

Is nailed on to be longterm senior captain. Is a strong character and is highly rated by Van Gaal.

Considering one of the biggest obstacles he will be dealing with it a derp of a midfield, I don't see why he wouldn't look to go after the two hot prospect CM's in European football, that have gone on to somewhat vindicate their hype. Both of which he has personal experience of, in Strootman and Kroos.

It might not happen for sure, but I definitly wouldn't say we arn't interested.

Don't forget we had done all the groundwork on Strootman and had agreed in principle a 14m pound deal, which cooled of when Moyes came in. Stupid, stupid business.

TheDoc · 15-05-2014 07:39AM

ninja900 wrote: »

While hammering F5 on BBC Sportsday I saw this:

Pretty sad indictment of both Arsenal and England's coaches, really.

I didn't see it that way at all. It's one thing receiving your coaching, its another entirely when the best CM England produced says you've got problems.

Not sure why this "myth" hasn't been dispelled. In top level sport, rarely, if ever, is a coach or trainer, someone who operated at the highest level.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-05-2014 07:46AM

I'm not sure if you're saying they should be top ex-players, or not.

If the golf swing guys could do it themselves in the tournaments and earn millions for themselves, then they'd be doing it rather than helping their clients do it. Coaching is a distinct skill set that can overlap with playing (in that some players have it) but not necessarily. Many top players make crap managers, after all.

Deiseboy01 · 15-05-2014 07:48AM

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Found this very interesting, said id post it in a few of the relevant soccer threads, see what ye think.

This is the table of Premier League's top scorers (top 15):
1. Suarez - 31
2. Sturridge - 21
3. Toure - 20
4. Rooney - 17
4. Aguero - 17
6. Bony - 16
6. Dzeko - 16
6. Giroud - 16
9. Lukaku - 15
9. Rodriguez - 15
11. Hazard - 14
11. Remy - 14
13. Gerrard - 13
13. Lambert - 13
14. Van Persie -12

Now, when you look at how many of these player's goals were actually game-changing goals (a goal scored when behind, an equaliser or a goal scored to go 1 up) you see a very different table. Percentage of goals scored that were game changing is in brackets.

1. Sturridge - 13 (62%)
2. Bony - 12 (75%)
3. Rooney - 11 (65%)
3. Giroud - 11 (69%)
3. Remy - 11 (78%)
6. Aguero - 10 (59%)
6. Hazard - 10 (71%)
6. Lukaku - 10 (66%)
6. Gerrard - 10 (77%)
6. Van Persie - 10 (83%)
11. Dzeko - 9 (58%)
11. Suarez - 9 (29%)
11. Rodriguez - 9 (60%)
14. Toure - 6 (30%)
15. Lambert - 5 (38%)

So Sturridge scored the most important goals, followed by Bony.

Amazingly 10 players scored more important goals than the Player of the Year Luis Suarez, and 13 players scored more important goals than Yaya Toure.

83% of the time Van Persie scored was an important goal, itd make you wonder what if he'd been fit all season.

Itd also make you wonder was Suarez worth his Player of the Year award?

This 'important' goal stat is over relied upon. Way to narrow a criteria to measure a players effectiveness or quality.

Doesn't take into account who set up the goal. Who dragged players out of position to free space, etc.

Suarez was excellent all season in any number of facets of the game and was rightly player of the year. This from a rabid ABL by the way.

TheDoc · 15-05-2014 08:15AM

ninja900 wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're saying they should be top ex-players, or not.

If the golf swing guys could do it themselves in the tournaments and earn millions for themselves, then they'd be doing it rather than helping their clients do it. Coaching is a distinct skill set that can overlap with playing (in that some players have it) but not necessarily. Many top players make crap managers, after all.

I'm saying that being a top coach doesn't mean you were, or should have been a top player. They are not mutually exclusive.

A lot of coaches in any sports, do so after failing to reach the level of being proffesional for one reason or another, and dedicate themselves to learn the various mechanics and functions of that sport to enable themselves to coach others. I know a golf coach I worked with for 3 years in my teens, was on the PGA tour for two seasons, but packed it in because he didn't enjoy the time away from his family. Some people can make the decision to go into coaching, while having the ability to play themselves, for reasons that are not always logical.

The same with football coaches, although a larger proportion may have played the game. I doubt any coach on the England staff, "actively" coaching the players, where anywhere near the level of the players they are coaching.

I don't think it's somewhat a deficiency on the staff or coaches, when a player points out he wanted to hear the criticsm in more depth from one of the best midfielders in the game.

As a sidepoint, I think that's why I rubbish suggestions that managers need to have major credentials to lead or manage existing winners, in lets say the Moyes situation. Comments that he was struggling from the start because he had no credentials, is in my view a ridiculously out of touch view with what happens at that level of sport.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-05-2014 08:24AM

TheDoc wrote: »

I don't think it's somewhat a deficiency on the staff or coaches, when a player points out he wanted to hear the criticsm in more depth from one of the best midfielders in the game.

What's a deficiency is that whatever about England, the Arsenal guys are working with him week in week out. Scholes saw him play in a few games and straight away saw things to improve on.

Maybe Scholes is just a s**t-hot coach of the future

As a sidepoint, I think that's why I rubbish suggestions that managers need to have major credentials to lead or manage existing winners, in lets say the Moyes situation. Comments that he was struggling from the start because he had no credentials, is in my view a ridiculously out of touch view with what happens at that level of sport.

Credentials as a player (most top managers don't have) or as a manager, as in no domestic trophies since Preston and no real experience of managing in European competition?

Anyway, I'm out until this evening, hopefully we'll have some good news by then

Peanut Butter Jelly · 15-05-2014 08:26AM

I can't really see LVG being announced today. Not while he's in the Netherlands anyway.

Mitch Connor · 15-05-2014 08:29AM

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

I can't really see LVG being announced today. Not while he's in the Netherlands anyway.

Why?

Was Moyes in Manchester when he was announced?

I would say the club would love to announce him today, before the call with investors this afternoon which isn't going to be pretty. Some good news would be most welcome before that I believe.

dixiefly · 15-05-2014 08:38AM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Also apparently a plane flew over the aviva with a banner slagging off Livepool :pac:

Pathetic stuff and this is coming from someone that has supported United since the seventies, through Div 2 and all that.

If these guys had so much money to burn then donate it to one of the huge number of local and global issues that are continuing to occur. The €10k or whatever it cost to rent the plane etc would have been far far better off donating to the Turkey earthquake fund.

But these supporters probably have their heads up their asses so much and obsessed with Liverpool that they probably didnt know about this tragedy.

Peanut Butter Jelly · 15-05-2014 08:40AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Why?

Was Moyes in Manchester when he was announced?

I would say the club would love to announce him today, before the call with investors this afternoon which isn't going to be pretty. Some good news would be most welcome before that I believe.

Moyes wasn't at United because he was still the manager at Everton at the time and the season was still ongoing.

I can see why Woodward and the investors would want it today, but I would say atleast that it will be a day that the Dutch team have a day off. I think that the club would like him to be presented at OT.

Mitch Connor · 15-05-2014 08:43AM

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

Moyes wasn't at United because he was still the manager at Everton at the time and the season was still ongoing.

Van Gaal is still manager of the Dutch side and their season is still on going - no different to the Moyes situation in that regard.

RobertKK · 15-05-2014 08:45AM

LVG could be announced today around noon, when United release their Earnings Report to the NYSE.

RobertKK · 15-05-2014 08:49AM

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

Moyes wasn't at United because he was still the manager at Everton at the time and the season was still ongoing.

I can see why Woodward and the investors would want it today, but I would say atleast that it will be a day that the Dutch team have a day off. I think that the club would like him to be presented at OT.

It is normal for companies to package news with earnings report.
Today makes sense.

Lord TSC · 15-05-2014 08:57AM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is normal for companies to package news with earnings report.
Today makes sense.

So did last week after the Hull game, or after the Southampton game, or a variety of other days.

kryogen · 15-05-2014 09:01AM

RobertKK wrote: »

LVG could be announced today around noon, when United release their Earnings Report to the NYSE.

Uhuh, cause the 8.30-9 theory is now gone, after the noon one comes and goes maybe it will be 5 o clock, then 6 o clock, then some twit on twitter says he will have big news at 10 o clock, then it will be tomorrow morning, or certainly within the next 24-48 hours. Then maybe next week, then after the Dutch involvement with the WC is over since it would be a distraction and all talks and transfer deals have been suspended

homerjay2005 · 15-05-2014 09:03AM

Van Gaal - "I cannot say anything, the process is ongoing and i have no news"

on Giggs - "did you see him?! ask him if he was here."

TheDoc · 15-05-2014 09:05AM

Perfectly fine with me if the news is to be delayed as not to disrupt the Holland national team preperation or tournament itself.

Aslong as its all been done behind the scenes, transfer targets discussed and work can begin ASAP on clearout and recruitment.

If this drags on and on, it is a pretty terrible start to what is already going to be a tough summer.

Headshot · 15-05-2014 09:05AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Van Gaal - "I cannot say anything, the process is ongoing and i have no news"

on Giggs - "did you see him?! ask him if he was here."

Brilliant reply

homerjay2005 · 15-05-2014 09:09AM

Woodward in London ahead of announcing the Q3 figures at 12.00 and then, a public investor conference call around 1.00.

is there any particular reason why we dont have our head/commercial office in Manchester as opposed to London?

RobertKK · 15-05-2014 09:11AM

kryogen wrote: »

Uhuh, cause the 8.30-9 theory is now gone, after the noon one comes and goes maybe it will be 5 o clock, then 6 o clock, then some twit on twitter says he will have big news at 10 o clock, then it will be tomorrow morning, or certainly within the next 24-48 hours. Then maybe next week, then after the Dutch involvement with the WC is over since it would be a distraction and all talks and transfer deals have been suspended

If it is going to be today it will happen around noon and no later than 2.30pm.

All they have to is say who the manager is and let's say Ed Woodward and Ryan Giggs have held discussions with LVG and will carry out the wishes of the new manager as he prepares for the World Cup,

NTMK · 15-05-2014 09:13AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Woodward in London ahead of announcing the Q3 figures at 12.00 and then, a public investor conference call around 1.00.

is there any particular reason why we dont have our head/commercial office in Manchester as opposed to London?

london is where most of our commercial partners have bases makes sense to have it there for face to face meetings instead of a 3 hour trip up to manchester

FutureGuy · 15-05-2014 09:15AM

We are not announcing Louis Van Gaal.

ericzeking · 15-05-2014 09:21AM

Was it not established with the Moyes sacking and the leaking of same that mangerial appointments are not pertinent to the NYSE? We would have got in trouble for the leak if they were...??

As mentioned above, it seems it's all but done, transfer and clear out activity appear to be progressing so it's no biggie that it's not officially official.

It may be that we hold off purely out of respect for the Dutch WC preparations. Maybe we will hold off until quite close to the WC so that will be the story and LVG can easily deflect the United furore.
If they announce him now, there's still a few weeks of nothingness newswise which means the media would just plague him.

kryogen · 15-05-2014 09:23AM

TheDoc wrote: »

Perfectly fine with me if the news is to be delayed as not to disrupt the Holland national team preperation or tournament itself.

Aslong as its all been done behind the scenes, transfer targets discussed and work can begin ASAP on clearout and recruitment.

If this drags on and on, it is a pretty terrible start to what is already going to be a tough summer.

This, thats all that matters. It doesnt make a bit of difference when the announcement is made as long as the work is being done anyway

TheDoc · 15-05-2014 09:24AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Woodward in London ahead of announcing the Q3 figures at 12.00 and then, a public investor conference call around 1.00.

is there any particular reason why we dont have our head/commercial office in Manchester as opposed to London?

The FTSE stock exchange is based in London, aswell as the integrating markets and offices to the NYSE and other major markets.

Normal for large organisations trading on the stock exchange to perform their quarterly reporting or investor tasks from a sub-office at the exchanges.

bren2001 · 15-05-2014 09:25AM

FutureGuy wrote: »

We are not announcing Louis Van Gaal.

I told you yesterday, stick to Kroos.

homerjay2005 · 15-05-2014 09:25AM

kryogen wrote: »

This, thats all that matters. It doesnt make a bit of difference when the announcement is made as long as the work is being done anyway

in fairness, this is what we were saying last summer and look what happened.

United seem to love discussions and "work behind the scenes", but very little output comes sadly when it comes to big announcements.

Van Gaal will be done i am sure, but its taking a long long time and youd think other big clubs would get it done much quicker.

Mitch Connor · 15-05-2014 09:26AM

TheDoc wrote: »

The FTSE stock exchange is based in London, aswell as the integrating markets and offices to the NYSE and other major markets.

Normal for large organisations trading on the stock exchange to perform their quarterly reporting or investor tasks from a sub-office at the exchanges.

That answers a different, not asked, question.