Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

Backstreet Moyes · 12-05-2014 11:53AM

shadowcomplex wrote: »

If evra and Buttner go we will need 2 left backs , anyone else think alonso at Sunderland would be a good signing as competition for shaw ?

Why would Buttner go and we need to get Shaw first.

tallaghtmick · 12-05-2014 12:03PM

Even with injuries this season RVP has been good

12/13 : 48 Games 30 Goals
13/14 : 28 Games 18 Goals

You cant compare him to Berbatov

08/09 : 43 Games 14 Goals
09/10 : 43 Games 12 Goals
10/11 : 42 Games 21 Goals
11/12 : 21 Games 9 Goals

Shocking return for a 28 million player, he is (imo) a flop but his fans on here are blinded by the image that he's some cool as **** fella.

keane2097 · 12-05-2014 12:04PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Don't think anyone disputing that, but when you consider they have emulated the form of plenty of English players which have come before them, it's always a worry that maybe they might not turn out to be world class stars.

If I'm not outragously mistaken, Young hit some numbers with Villa that dwarf Lallana's 8 goals and like 5 assists. And look how he turned out.

James Milner was being touted as potentially being converted into a dynamic, technically gifted CM.

I don't think anyone is doubting their season, I think maybe being weary of what may or may not come ahead, which I think is fair enough when you consider how easy the UK rpess get carried away.

Comparing Ashley Young and Lallana on a goals/assists stats sort of thing is weird, they're very, very different sorts of players.

Milner is a super player whose development has stagnated by moving to a team where he can't get a game in the middle because of Yaya Toure.

I think people complaining about the UK press getting carried away are inclined to get reverso carried away to the same extent and more a lot of the time.

We had a genuine Bale vs Nani debate in here last year where people were trying to convince me the only reason I thought there was a difference between the two was because some newspapers that I don't read were saying so. Presumably Real Madrid were reading the same papers.

redbaron_99 · 12-05-2014 12:07PM

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Even with injuries this season RVP has been good

12/13 : 48 Games 30 Goals
13/14 : 28 Games 18 Goals

You cant compare him to Berbatov

08/09 : 43 Games 14 Goals
09/10 : 43 Games 12 Goals
10/11 : 42 Games 21 Goals
11/12 : 21 Games 9 Goals

Shocking return for a 28 million player, he is (imo) a flop but his fans on here are blinded by the image that he's some cool as **** fella.

He is cool as ****

redbaron_99 · 12-05-2014 12:14PM

I suppose you can never real tell how a player will do. There's always a doubt, no matter what the price and reputation.

By the by, was looking at the transfer business Simeone has done since his arrival at Athletico. It's astounding!

TheDoc · 12-05-2014 12:18PM

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Even with injuries this season RVP has been good

12/13 : 48 Games 30 Goals
13/14 : 28 Games 18 Goals

You cant compare him to Berbatov

08/09 : 43 Games 14 Goals
09/10 : 43 Games 12 Goals
10/11 : 42 Games 21 Goals
11/12 : 21 Games 9 Goals

Shocking return for a 28 million player, he is (imo) a flop but his fans on here are blinded by the image that he's some cool as **** fella.

Don't think anyone is blinded, I know I'm not. I appreciate his limitations as a player, but his strengths was something we only played to once, and he bagged 20 goals.

He operated behind Rooney if memory serves most of the time, as well as being rotated a fierce amount. Always felt we never used him properly and he got unfairly critised for it.

In the team this season where it's being slow patient buildup in the final third, he's the sort of player that youd want, clever movement and intricate passing. Was said by someone else here but little interchanges with Mata, Kagawa and Berbatov would be excellent.

Playing really well for Monaco at the moment in a side that is playing to his strengths.

TheDoc · 12-05-2014 12:23PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Comparing Ashley Young and Lallana on a goals/assists stats sort of thing is weird, they're very, very different sorts of players.

Milner is a super player whose development has stagnated by moving to a team where he can't get a game in the middle because of Yaya Toure.

I think people complaining about the UK press getting carried away are inclined to get reverso carried away to the same extent and more a lot of the time.

We had a genuine Bale vs Nani debate in here last year where people were trying to convince me the only reason I thought there was a difference between the two was because some newspapers that I don't read were saying so. Presumably Real Madrid were reading the same papers.

Why is the comparison odd?

I'm always open to correct as I said above my memory can sometimes be muddied, but Lallana has to my knowledge only moved into a more central position this year. He was typically operating from the left wing or wide in a left trio, similar to Young in his younger days at Villa operating form the left cutting inside.

My point about Milner is that he was seen, thought and attempted to be converted into a CM. He was always a winger, thoughts of him being a CM were ridiculous and seeing a technical player, crying out for him to be played through the middle. He has a wonderful cross, tremendous engine and carries out great defensive duties aswell as good place and a trick or too.

He's recaptured a bit of that form that saw him rocket with Leeds, but only after ditching that feeble attempt at playing CM, which stunted his development, nothing to do with Toure.

My point is that there is an air of caution around Lallana and Barkley which I believe is merited considering typically how England seem to hype their players beyond belief. Barkley however looks to be an outragous talent, and I'd hope he continues on in that vain of developement.

I love watching big, strong players power their way through teams leaving opponents for dust.

tallaghtmick · 12-05-2014 12:27PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Don't think anyone is blinded, I know I'm not. I appreciate his limitations as a player, but his strengths was something we only played to once, and he bagged 20 goals.

He operated behind Rooney if memory serves most of the time, as well as being rotated a fierce amount. Always felt we never used him properly and he got unfairly critised for it.

In the team this season where it's being slow patient buildup in the final third, he's the sort of player that youd want, clever movement and intricate passing. Was said by someone else here but little interchanges with Mata, Kagawa and Berbatov would be excellent.

Playing really well for Monaco at the moment in a side that is playing to his strengths.

28 million or in around that 4 seasons and scores less than 60 goals, we signed him to be a goalscorer like he was at spurs, not good enough in my eyes.

beno619 · 12-05-2014 12:29PM

TheDoc wrote: »

My point about Milner is that he was seen, thought and attempted to be converted into a CM. He was always a winger, thoughts of him being a CM were ridiculous and seeing a technical player, crying out for him to be played through the middle. He has a wonderful cross, tremendous engine and carries out great defensive duties aswell as good place and a trick or too.

I though he was great in the middle for Villa, was hoping we would sign him to play there.

ericzeking · 12-05-2014 12:31PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Don't think anyone is blinded, I know I'm not. I appreciate his limitations as a player, but his strengths was something we only played to once, and he bagged 20 goals.

He operated behind Rooney if memory serves most of the time, as well as being rotated a fierce amount. Always felt we never used him properly and he got unfairly critised for it.

In the team this season where it's being slow patient buildup in the final third, he's the sort of player that youd want, clever movement and intricate passing. Was said by someone else here but little interchanges with Mata, Kagawa and Berbatov would be excellent.

Playing really well for Monaco at the moment in a side that is playing to his strengths.

Matagawatov.......KagMatov....drooooool

Think you're right about Berbs being dropped in that run in too...unfortunate that he didn't run around enough in the eyes of the masses....

Actually, I remember having that very thought one night watching the Champions league where they give the distance travelled stats and Berba had massive numbers, it was more his languid style than his actual, factual lack of work rate that went against him in the eyes of many I feel.
Even Fergie...I often had the feeling Fergie had a fairly basic way of looking at the game, Berba didn't appear to run enough so he was out.

Schwiiing · 12-05-2014 12:31PM

tallaghtmick wrote: »

28 million or in around that 4 seasons and scores less than 60 goals, we signed him to be a goalscorer like he was at spurs, not good enough in my eyes.

At Spurs the idea was for everyone to give him the ball like Utd did wth vNistelrooy and he scored for fun. At Utd Ronaldo was on the rise and Berba was played behind Rooney. The 1 season we used him to his strengths he was the leagues top scorer and scored a hat trick against Liverpool and 5 against Blackburn.

KombuchaMshroom · 12-05-2014 12:31PM

TheDoc wrote: »

I have a tendancy to "mixmash" seasons into the one memory.

Am I right in saying the season Berbatov finished like joint goalscorer with Drogba, he was dropped for a fair few games in the run in, as Ferguson preferenced Chico alongside Rooney for a "high tempo, pacey" front line, to tackle Barca at Wembley?

Or am I putting two seasons into the one memory again

It was Tevez not Drogba he tied with but you are right.

I even put the question to Martin Tyler on his sky blog and he said that Berbatov was by a long way the player to start the fewest premier league games and still be top scorer, 23 starts I think it was, with the next lowest from previous years being 30.

Despite carrying us for a huge portion of that season then he was ridiculously dropped from the entire CL final squad. I'm in no way saying we would have won with him playing, but starting Hernandez back then was just idiotic considering how bad his overall play was back then.

clubberlang12 · 12-05-2014 12:32PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Why is the comparison odd?

I'm always open to correct as I said above my memory can sometimes be muddied, but Lallana has to my knowledge only moved into a more central position this year. He was typically operating from the left wing or wide in a left trio, similar to Young in his younger days at Villa operating form the left cutting inside.

My point about Milner is that he was seen, thought and attempted to be converted into a CM. He was always a winger, thoughts of him being a CM were ridiculous and seeing a technical player, crying out for him to be played through the middle. He has a wonderful cross, tremendous engine and carries out great defensive duties aswell as good place and a trick or too.

He's recaptured a bit of that form that saw him rocket with Leeds, but only after ditching that feeble attempt at playing CM, which stunted his development, nothing to do with Toure.

My point is that there is an air of caution around Lallana and Barkley which I believe is merited considering typically how England seem to hype their players beyond belief. Barkley however looks to be an outragous talent, and I'd hope he continues on in that vain of developement.

I love watching big, strong players power their way through teams leaving opponents for dust.

I may be mistaken, and this is not being critical of what you are saying, but i'm pretty sure Milner excelled in his final season at Villa when deployed in a central midfield role driving forward and creating opportunities.

upstairs for coffee · 12-05-2014 12:33PM

30 million on Berbatov. 30 million on Fellaini. 30 million on Veron. 20 million on Anderson.

Ouch.

tallaghtmick · 12-05-2014 12:35PM

Schwiiing wrote: »

At Spurs the idea was for everyone to give him the ball like Utd did wth vNistelrooy and he scored for fun. At Utd Ronaldo was on the rise and Berba was played behind Rooney. The 1 season we used him to his strengths he was the leagues top scorer and scored a hat trick against Liverpool and 5 against Blackburn.

So 8 goals against 2 teams......that leaves 13 for the rest of the season in which we play 38 games, I'm really not seeing it tbh. I guess im just not a fan of his type of player.

tallaghtmick · 12-05-2014 12:36PM

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

30 million on Berbatov. 30 million on Fellaini. 30 million on Veron. 20 million on Anderson.

Ouch.

Yeh we really slipped up there alright.....

Will I Amnt · 12-05-2014 12:41PM

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

30 million on Berbatov. 30 million on Fellaini. 30 million on Veron. 20 million on Anderson.

Ouch.

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TheDoc · 12-05-2014 12:42PM

clubberlang12 wrote: »

I may be mistaken, and this is not being critical of what you are saying, but i'm pretty sure Milner excelled in his final season at Villa when deployed in a central midfield role driving forward and creating opportunities.

Your dead right he did excel, but by comparison to the midfield options at the time they were slim. I'm pretty sure he was drafted into the middle to cover for injuries and this notion arose that he would be a top CM

With Milner there is my Da in the back of my head, big Leeds fan, gets irked everytime he sees Milner. Thought he should have been a top European talent, not a make shift winger whose top trait is "graft".

I tend to agree, he's much more then a grafter.

Schwiiing · 12-05-2014 12:43PM

Am I right in saying that David Moyes won more silverware than Liverpool this season?

RichFTW · 12-05-2014 12:45PM

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

30 million on Berbatov. 30 million on Fellaini. 30 million on Veron. 20 million on Anderson.

Ouch.

10 million on Borini, 15 million on Allen, 20 million on Downing, 35 million on Carroll, 20 million on Aquilani, 20 million on Keane.

tallaghtmick · 12-05-2014 12:45PM

Schwiiing wrote: »

Am I right in saying that David Moyes won more silverware than Liverpool this season?

Manchester-United-v-Wigan-Athletic-FA-Community-Shield.jpg

Pro. F · 12-05-2014 12:47PM

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I think you've missed my point. I'm talking about monster signings.

Again, take United (Prices are relative):

Miss:
Veron
Anderson
Berba

Hits:
Keane
Cole
Stam
RVN
Rooney
Rio
RVP

Hargreaves was a miss but not because of ability, which is the point of the excercise. United are a better example than City and Chelsea as they were buying to consolidate success. Many of the petroclubs' signings were loss leader big names to entice other players and increase recognition.

You should definitely include transfer failures caused by injury and other unpredictable issues. Money wasted is money wasted.

12-05-2014 12:52PM

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

30 million on Berbatov. 30 million on Fellaini. 30 million on Veron. 20 million on Anderson.

Ouch.

7 mil on vidic. 12 mil on ronaldo. 5 mil on evra. 2 mil on van der sar. not so ouch

and thats without going back to the likes of keane, cantona, irwin , schmeichel

Schwiiing · 12-05-2014 12:56PM

upstairs for coffee wrote: »

30 million on Berbatov. 30 million on Fellaini. 30 million on Veron. 20 million on Anderson.

Ouch.

1m for Cantona. 3m for Keane. 7m for Vidic. 5m for Evra. 12m for Ronaldo. 0 for Giggs Beckham and Scholes combined. Balances it out don't you think.

@Ayan CoolS Dustpan got there before me.

clubberlang12 · 12-05-2014 12:57PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Your dead right he did excel, but by comparison to the midfield options at the time they were slim. I'm pretty sure he was drafted into the middle to cover for injuries and this notion arose that he would be a top CM

With Milner there is my Da in the back of my head, big Leeds fan, gets irked everytime he sees Milner. Thought he should have been a top European talent, not a make shift winger whose top trait is "graft".

I tend to agree, he's much more then a grafter.

IT may have arisen from being drafted in to cover injuries, i can't recall, but there was no doubting his performances while playing there. I remember thinking that he really came into his own through the middle. A lot of young players start out wide, especially when entering a top team as a youngster, sometimes because of physical development or lack off. Milner was very effective out wide but in his last season at Villa i thought i seen the makings of a very good central box to box midfielder. I believe that had he gone to a team where first team football was guaranteed he would have remained playing through the middle.

12-05-2014 01:00PM

Schwiiing wrote: »

1m for Cantona. 3m for Keane. 7m for Vidic. 5m for Evra. 12m for Ronaldo. 0 for Giggs Beckham and Scholes combined. Balances it out don't you think.

@Ayan CoolS Dustpan got there before me.

great minds think alike....... or fools seldom differ. one of those

TheDoc · 12-05-2014 01:01PM

Schwiiing wrote: »

Am I right in saying that David Moyes won more silverware than Liverpool this season?

Might be alone on this one, but I've found it somewhat embarrassing people using the Charity Shield as a put down on Liverpool and as a defence by Moyes.

If anyone else used it as a defence I'd absolutely slaughter them. It's pure twisting the achievement to fit the narrative.

Charity shield is one of the most pointless competitions there can be, and I'd be highly suspect of anyone using it as legit.

I get it's been somewhat a running joke lately, but I've seen plenty of people using it as an actually justification or defence for Moyes, or a put down on Liverpool.

If your one of the people that has seriously used the Charity shield as a notch on the belt.........

keane2097 · 12-05-2014 01:03PM

I was looking at fees adjusted for inflation the other day - that Keane figure would be like £30M+ by most measures. Obviously still a great transfer but not an example of getting a great player on the cheap in the slightest.

tallaghtmick · 12-05-2014 01:05PM

keane2097 wrote: »

I was looking at fees adjusted for inflation the other day - that Keane figure would be like £30M+ by most measures. Obviously still a great transfer but not an example of getting a great player on the cheap in the slightest.

Its 2014 not 2097 you and your time travel internet!

beno619 · 12-05-2014 01:06PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Your dead right he did excel, but by comparison to the midfield options at the time they were slim. I'm pretty sure he was drafted into the middle to cover for injuries and this notion arose that he would be a top CM

With Milner there is my Da in the back of my head, big Leeds fan, gets irked everytime he sees Milner. Thought he should have been a top European talent, not a make shift winger whose top trait is "graft".

I tend to agree, he's much more then a grafter.

Nope. Had to go to wiki for comfirmation.

At the start of the 2009–10 season, Milner moved into the centre of midfield after the sale of captain Gareth Barry to Manchester City.[69] On 28 February 2010, he scored the opening goal in the 2010 Football League Cup Final from the penalty spot. However, Villa were eventually beaten 2–1 by Manchester United. Milner ended the season with 12 goals and was named Aston Villa's Fan's Player of the Year and PFA Young Player of the Year.

He was excellent and found his true position in football imo. He doesnt have the trickery to be a top winger but in CM he was a toned down version of Yaya Toure imo. Would have been an excellent signing for us at the time.

Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

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