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Woman uploads abortion video - goes viral

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Comments

  • #782
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Chattastrophe! wrote: »
    If you're talking about an eight-week-embryo, it's appropriate to refer to it as an eight-week-old embryo. You, me, and everyone else all know that a "child" is a different being altogether.

    Don't sell yourself short. I'm sure you're probably more intelligent than that? A child is not an embryo. An embryo is not a child

    A different being ? No it's a human being


  • #783
    Chattastrophe!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Chattastrophe!


    ryan101 wrote: »
    A different being ? No it's a human being

    But you're not opposed to the morning after pill?

    At what point do YOU think a pregnancy is of equal/more importance to a human life?


  • #784
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Chattastrophe! wrote: »
    But you're not opposed to the morning after pill?

    At what point do YOU think a pregnancy is of equal/more importance to a human life?

    At no point, human life is equal, when is one human life superior to another ?


  • #785
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    ryan101 wrote: »
    At no point, human life is equal, when is one human life superior to another ?
    Definitions of 'when life begins' aside, one human life is never superior to another, but nevertheless it is justified for one human to harm (even kill) another, when their own life is threatened - so that's not a sustainable line of argument.


  • #786
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    Muise... wrote: »
    A foetus is only called a baby by a woman who wants it, and the people who surround her and are happy for her. Doctors call it a foetus. The mother's feelings about its existence determine whether is is born or not.

    You have some talent for waffle.

    A fetus is regularly referred to as a baby by people other than the ones you mention. If every single human on this planet were to witness a pregnant woman excitedly saying to their friend: "Oh, I think I feel it kicking for the first time" and were to then go home and relay this story to another person. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM would say they seen a woman experiencing their BABY kicking for the first time. NOT ONE of them would use the word fetus.

    Seriously, I get that you want to avoid using certain words to describe a baby in the womb, but quit pretending that the majority of people in the world do also. They don't and they never will.
    You call yourself Wishiwasa Littlebitaller. I won't argue with that, it's your height and your business how you feel about it so you can use what words you like. I could lend you a pair of heels if you like, because I would support your choice to do something about your condition.

    Hang on here: Are you really comparing condoning of use of heels, for those wish to be taller, with condoning the ending of fetal life in the womb? You have to be trolling. Have a word with yourself ffs.
    You're really not getting my point that it is the side of the womb that determines the medical and ethical definitions of 'foetus' and 'baby'.

    And you're really not getting mine: that it shouldn't.


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  • #787
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    Definitions of 'when life begins' aside, one human life is never superior to another, but nevertheless it is justified for one human to harm (even kill) another, when their own life is threatened - so that's not a sustainable line of argument.

    The vast majority of abortions in countries where abortion is legal, are not carried out for medical reasons, so why is it ok to kill a defenceless child ?


  • #788
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    You have some talent for waffle, honest.

    A fetus is regularly referred to as a baby by people other than the ones you mention. If every single human on this planet were to witness a pregnant woman excitedly saying to her friend: "Oh, I think I feel it kicking for the first time" and were to then go home and relay this story to someone. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM would say they seen a woman feeling their BABY kicking for the first time. NOT ONE of them would use the word fetus. Seriously, I get that you want to avoid using certain words to describe babies in the womb, but quit pretending that the majority of people in the world do also. They don't and never will.



    Hang on here: Are you really comparing condoning of use of heels, for those wish to be taller, with condoning the ending of fetal life in the womb? You have to be trolling. Have a word with yourself ffs.



    And you're really not getting mine, that it shouldn't.

    Go on and carry out your silly experiment and see if EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM use the word baby. Not 'bump', as many happily pregnant women themselves say? I'm insisting on the word 'foetus' in this discussion because outside of conversations with happily pregnant women looking forward to their babies, it is a deliberate confusion of terms, a waffle, even :rolleyes: to lay the groundwork for the charge of infanticide.

    I was condoning your right to call yourself what you like - as pregnant women are entitled to call their foetuses babies without impact on other women's right to choose. Maybe I could lend you a milkcrate soapbox, if heels aren't your thing? I'm tolerant and respectful of the wishes of others, so it's up to you.

    I think we should have separate words for different phases of human development. Helps us understand things better.


  • #789
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    ryan101 wrote: »
    The vast majority of abortions in country's where abortion is legal, are not carried out for medical reasons, so why is it ok to kill a defenceless child ?
    That doesn't matter - it's the edge cases you have to deal with when making the law, and when you try to make answers for taking those edge cases into account (allowing abortion in legitimate cases, while still trying to restrict what you judge as immoral), you quickly see that your morals are impractical to enforce in law, without harming people who should be granted an abortion.


  • #790
    Pocoyo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Pocoyo


    MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

    “I don’t feel like a bad person. I don’t feel sad. I feel in awe of the fact that I can make a baby. I can make a life. I knew that what I was going to do was right ‘cause it was right for me and no one else.”



    The sheer look of delight on her face,She cant keep from smiling,Shes repulsive she enjoyed that experience and was anticipating the messages of support, she feels proudly empowered by this video,Its actually rather sick,even the editing was in bad taste.


  • #791
    StudentDad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    This thread has totally veered off topic into a good old fashioned rant. From both sides of the fence.

    It never ceases to amaze me how some people feel that they have the right to impose their beliefs on others, regardless of the consequences. We have too many examples of that in Ireland. Too many lives destroyed by the imposition of 'belief' on others. Too many individuals with nothing invested in the issue being discussed, ready to condemn and decry, when it does not impact on their lives in any fashion.

    This woman has acted within the law and from that standpoint has done nothing wrong as far as I can see.

    How she chooses to live her life and her actions is a matter for her alone.

    SD


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  • #792
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Pocoyo wrote: »
    The sheer look of delight on her face,She cant keep from smiling,Shes repulsive she enjoyed that experience and was anticipating the messages of support, she feels proudly empowered by this video,Its actually rather sick,even the editing was in bad taste.

    Just when you thought it was not possible, people find a way of reaching a new low, as a child is killed and hoovered out.


  • #793
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Just when you thought it was not possible, people find a way of reaching a new low, as a child is killed and hoovered out.

    dammit, I missed the product placement.


  • #794
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Pocoyo wrote: »
    The sheer look of delight on her face,She cant keep from smiling,Shes repulsive she enjoyed that experience and was anticipating the messages of support, she feels proudly empowered by this video,Its actually rather sick,even the editing was in bad taste.

    would you be less outraged if she was crying and agonising over it?


  • #795
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    StudentDad wrote: »
    This thread has totally veered off topic into a good old fashioned rant. From both sides of the fence.

    It never ceases to amaze me how some people feel that they have the right to impose their beliefs on others, regardless of the consequences. We have too many examples of that in Ireland. Too many lives destroyed by the imposition of 'belief' on others.

    Like imposing the beliefs on children, and killing them before they are born.


  • #796
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    Muise... wrote: »
    dammit, I missed the product placement.

    Product placement would not surprise me, nor the fact that some people consider abortion and death of a child a joking matter.


  • #797
    Pocoyo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Pocoyo


    eviltwin wrote: »
    would you be less outraged if she was crying and agonising over it?

    I would still be outraged,But less so. I didnt enjoy looking into her twisted mind,I see the vast majority of youtubers didnt either.


  • #798
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Just when you thought it was not possible, people find a way of reaching a new low, as a child is killed and hoovered out.
    So, in writing the law, how do you reconcile allowing abortion in legitimate cases, while also taking your morals against abortion into account?

    Do you think that is possible, without allowing massive loopholes in the law, that are as good as unrestricted abortion?

    For example, allowing abortion in the case of threatening the parents life, and considering the threat of suicide as a condition - which is something that can't really be proven, thus opening a huge loophole (people could falsely claim they are suicidal).
    It's these edge-cases which pretty much destroy any practical way of writing the law in a way that takes morals into account, without also harming people who should be allowed an abortion.


  • #799
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    So, in writing the law, how do you reconcile allowing abortion in legitimate cases, while also taking your morals against abortion into account?

    Do you think that is possible, without allowing massive loopholes in the law, that are as good as unrestricted abortion?

    For example, allowing abortion in the case of threatening the parents life, and considering the threat of suicide as a condition - which is something that can't really be proven, thus opening a huge loophole (people could falsely claim they are suicidal).
    It's these edge-cases which pretty much destroy any practical way of writing the law in a way that takes morals into account, without also harming people who should be allowed an abortion.

    I thought that's exactly what was achieved in the recent Irish legislation, or so we were told at the time by its advocates. Was that not true ?


  • #800
    StudentDad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    ryan101 wrote: »
    Like imposing the beliefs on children, and killing them before they are born.

    You cannot impose a belief on a cluster of cells. It has no consciousness.

    To impose a belief on an adult woman is a denial of her right as an individual to decide her own fate and none of your business.

    SD


  • #801
    Frito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Frito


    Muise... wrote: »
    Not 'belly' or 'bump', as many happily pregnant women themselves say?

    Whilst my niece was in utero, I referred to her as Freckle, cos that's what she looked like at the first scan.
    I completely agree with the point you're making about the difference between medical terminology and vernacular. Both are acceptable, but vernacular depends on your perspective.


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  • #802
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    StudentDad wrote: »
    You cannot impose a belief on a cluster of cells. It has no consciousness.

    To impose a belief on an adult woman is a denial of her right as an individual to decide her own fate and none of your business.

    SD

    We are all "just a cluster of cells", and it's certainly the business of the child being killed


  • #803
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    Frito wrote: »
    Whilst my niece was in utero, I referred to her as Freckle, cos that's what she looked like at the first scan.
    I completely agree with the point you're making about the difference between medical terminology and vernacular. Both are acceptable, but vernacular depends on your perspective.

    That's really sweet. :) A friend of mine referred to her daughter as 'bean' after the first scan.


  • #804
    StudentDad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    ryan101 wrote: »
    We are all "just a cluster of cells", and it's certainly the business of the child being killed

    That is your opinion. It doesn't remove the fact that you have no right to impose that opinion on another adult human.

    SD


  • #805
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Muise... wrote: »
    That's really sweet. :) A friend of mine referred to her daughter as 'bean' after the first scan.



    mine was peanut, I used a lot of pregnancy boards while i was expecting and users would regularly used those kinds of nicknames. They were a lot more common than baby.


  • #806
    Pocoyo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Pocoyo


    StudentDad wrote: »
    That is your opinion. It doesn't remove the fact that you have no right to impose that opinion on another adult human.

    SD

    But the abortion industry is often abused and forced on young women,You have no right to defend such a corrupt industry.


  • #807
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    ryan101 wrote: »
    I thought that's exactly what was achieved in the recent Irish legislation, or so we were told at the time by its advocates. Was that not true ?
    It is a condition where three doctors have to judge whether someone is genuinely at risk of suicide, yes - where they can reject the suicidal persons claims if they feel unconvinced; given how subjective a matter this is (accurately determining someones risk of suicide), this can pretty easily lead to either a large loophole, or to restricting abortions for people who should be allowed have them.


  • #808
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Pocoyo wrote: »
    But the abortion industry is often abused and forced on young women,You have no right to defend such a corrupt industry.

    how is it forced?


  • #809
    StudentDad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    Pocoyo wrote: »
    But the abortion industry is often abused and forced on young women,You have no right to defend such a corrupt industry.

    I'm not defending 'a corrupt industry.' If I'm defending anything, I'm defending the rights of individuals to live their lives as they see fit. Free from the interference of individuals who would seek to impose their will on others.

    SD


  • #810
    blackbaron
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 30 ✭blackbaron


    I'm pro choice, the video didn't bother me. I think what's making some uncomfortable is that:

    a: This video is pretty much the first of its kind

    b: She didn't endure a nasty, painful experience to go through the abortion

    So it was the visual normalisation of something that, for a huge amount of couples and women alone, is now already normalised...just stigmatized and kept on the hush hush. Some claiming to be pro-choice might be made uneasy about this video because they may believe that the inherent choice in the matter *should* carry some sort of penance, whether it's bringing up a child you didn't want or going through a painful experience to get rid of it.

    It's a shame that couples and women have to go through this procedure, and that we don't have concrete contraception as of yet despite massive advances in other medical technologies, but I'd rather sit through 1000x of these videos than see a single couple or woman go through a pregnancy and bring up a child that they never intended to have.

    Some day soon this procedure won't be necessary, but until then I see no harm in normalising it in this manner and removing the stigma from it, whether it's through videos like this or any other means. At least it's not material made to shock and shame like those employed by the anti-choice crowd, that's where the real shaming should be pointed.


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  • #811
    ryan101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭ryan101


    StudentDad wrote: »
    That is your opinion. It doesn't remove the fact that you have no right to impose that opinion on another adult human.

    SD

    How does that give you the right to kill another human life ?


This discussion has been closed.
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