Retro Consoles on Modern TV's

Hygro · 03-05-2014 01:18PM #1

I have a problem, in that although I have a completed my pursuit of my most wanted 90's consoles (apart from the Neo Geo AES of course) I'm now in a position where the only place I can play them is in my apartment on 42 inch plasma TV.

So my question to you guys is this, how do I get the best visual experience when playing them? Getting another tv isn't an option :pac:

The consoles are:

PS2
Gamecube
Dreamcast
N64
Saturn

Some extra information.

I already have my PS2 hooked up via component cables and that's probably the best I can get that looking, it definitely looks sharper than the regular TV cable anyway).

The Dreamcast seems to be siding to the left for some reason, so it's basically cutting off about 1 inch of the gamescreen (I tested it on a normal CRT and it's perfect, so it's something to do with the Plasma that the DC doesn't like).

The rest of the consoles have the standard TV cables.

o1s1n · 03-05-2014 01:38PM

If you fancy spending a bit of money, the XRGB-mini FRAMEMEISTER produces some amazing results.

Great review of it here. It basically gives the games gorgeous scanlines, so they look like they should.

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html

There are some other options to getting scanlines on your TV like the SLG3000.

If you don't fancy going down that route and just want the best signal quality, then just get RGB scart cables for all your consoles.

You won't have scanlines so the games don't look 100% a they should, but you'll at least have strong colours, solid lines and no interference.

Retr0gamer · 03-05-2014 01:53PM

Hook them all up with RGB scart.

The N64 is different. If its NTSC you can get a s-video cable which gives the best picture.

If its PAL sell it and get a NTSC one.

If you don't take that sound advice then you have to get a modified s video cable made especially for PAL consoles. Consolegoods.co.uk is the only place that sells them, you can get them from his site or ebay site.

Jack burton · 03-05-2014 01:54PM

What o1s1n said + 1

STG.Otaku · 03-05-2014 01:57PM

Yep ditto o1s1n. I have a Framemeister and presently won't look back. It is a brilliant gadget although it comes at a premium.

Hygro · 03-05-2014 05:57PM

Cheers for the response guys, I'm confused though, are the RGB cables not the the ones that came with the consoles?

The Framemeister might be something I would think about if I won the lotto

Retr0gamer · 03-05-2014 06:13PM

Hygro wrote: »

Cheers for the response guys, I'm confused though, are the RGB cables not the the ones that came with the consoles?

The Framemeister might be something I would think about if I won the lotto

The yellow white and red cables are composite not RGB. They give pretty much the worst video quality outside of going through the aerial. A proper wired RGB cable will give a massive increase in visual quality.

the groutch · 03-05-2014 07:12PM

a 5 way scart switcher could come in very useful, save having to plug cables in and out all the time

80s Synth Pop · 05-05-2014 02:12PM

There is a nice item called the SLG-in-a-Box http://arcadeforge.net/SLG-in-a-Box:::26.html that gives a retro scanline look to old games on modern TVs

PS2 - component cables directly to TV or an rgb cable through the SLG-in-a-Box

Gamecube - use a wii with component cables directly to the TV and play USA cube games as they support 480p holding down the B button when you boot them. They look amazing like this.

Dreamcast - vga cable -> SLG-in-a-Box -> TV

N64 - USA console with RGB mod connected through the SLG-in-a-Box. Or the new HDMI device that's coming soon and supports PAL and USA consoles http://retroactive.be/tech_n64_hdmi.php.

Saturn - RGB -> SLG-in-a-Box -> TV

Star Lord · 07-05-2014 09:20AM

o1s1n wrote: »

If you fancy spending a bit of money, the XRGB-mini FRAMEMEISTER produces some amazing results.

Great review of it here. It basically gives the games gorgeous scanlines, so they look like they should.

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html

There are some other options to getting scanlines on your TV like the SLG3000.

If you don't fancy going down that route and just want the best signal quality, then just get RGB scart cables for all your consoles.

You won't have scanlines so the games don't look 100% a they should, but you'll at least have strong colours, solid lines and no interference.

Biggest drawback for anyone with PAL consoles is the framemeister doesn't support 50Hz properly:

50Hz PAL sources on the Framemeister: PAL content is currently a problem. While the Marvell processor can easily handle 50Hz input, unfortunately Micomsoft didn't bother to include the proper output timings. 576i signals are recognized and converted to 60Hz output timings. 288p signals are accepted as well, but are shown as 240p and treated as such (meaning, a some lines get cut off and the signal's converted to 60Hz). The framerate conversion from 50 to 60Hz is done quite ok and you would actually be be able to play a slow-paced RPG, but of course it's far from ideal for any fast action game with smooth scrolling backgrounds. LCD and plasma sets sold in Japan and the USA most can most often only display 60Hz signals, even though HDMI supports 50Hz and 60Hz on all HD timings. TVs sold in Europe can easily handle 720p50, 1080i50 and 1080p50, so we can only hope that Micomsoft will add a software switch to support 50Hz output timings as well. Ideally 50/60Hz are automatically recognized, so the Framemeister will switch between 720p50 and 720p60 (or other resolutions) on it's own..

Myrddin · 07-05-2014 09:57AM

I didn't know that! Interesting

Steve X2 · 07-05-2014 10:07AM

I thought the fixed the PAL 50hz issues in the later firmware updates?!

STG.Otaku · 07-05-2014 10:08AM

Yep. I had some issues capturing NTSC VHS tapes through a Sony Professional VCR unit. The Framemeister would output the composite source in black and white. However, run it through the comb filter of a Pioneer DVDR or similar, to composite out, and the problem is solved.

Not sure about consoles as I only have NTSC-J systems. The Framemeister is still awesome though!

The Last Bandit · 07-05-2014 10:14AM

Ironically PAL is actually the better standard from a picture quality point of view. Shame those lazy ass developers never ported stuff correctly..

Myrddin · 07-05-2014 10:16AM

STG.Otaku wrote: »

The Framemeister is still awesome though!

It looks amazing, enough to turn me to the dark side I think...

Retr0gamer · 07-05-2014 10:27AM

The Last Bandit wrote: »

Ironically PAL is actually the better standard from a picture quality point of view. Shame those lazy ass developers never ported stuff correctly..

It has a slightly higher resolution but for games, I'll take the frame rate increase over a few more vertical lines anyday.

The Last Bandit · 07-05-2014 11:07AM

Higher resolution, higher bandwidth, better colour encoding so overall a better picture

Higher frame rate would be better though for artificially generated video that doesn't have natural motion blur.

STG.Otaku · 07-05-2014 02:45PM

Myrddin wrote: »

It looks amazing, enough to turn me to the dark side I think...

As a convert to the dark side of video display technology guff, I can safely say I've not looked back.

With the right display panel and a Framemeister in tow, it's just a wonderful, creamy dessertbuttock of a plopfestival of lemonade, loganberries and artichokes twixt a bottle of Punch shoe polish that's been on sale in Lidl for about 3 weeks (usually between October and November 15th, except on Tuesdays).

Tis a worthy, although somewhat hefty, investment.

Steve X2 · 07-05-2014 02:54PM

They go for about 250 euro now. For those wondering just how much it is.
That doesn't include shipping etc.

Doge · 07-05-2014 03:06PM

STG.Otaku wrote: »

creamy dessertbuttock of a plopfestival of lemonade, loganberries and artichokes twixt a bottle of Punch shoe polish that's been on sale in Lidl for about 3 weeks (usually between October and November 15th, except on Tuesdays).

:pac:

CosmicSmash · 07-05-2014 04:05PM

Steve SI wrote: »

They go for about 250 euro now. For those wondering just how much it is.
That doesn't include shipping etc.

The more systems you have the better to get the most use from it. I do find you get a nicer picture from NTSC consoles over PAL consoles too. I managed to finally remove the SFC rgb cable after a long time and plug in the Saturn one instead, must stick some pictures up later. You could easily buy a NTSC famicom, super famicom and a N64 along with a xrgb mini for the price of an xbox one on it's own. I'm still on the lookout for a NTSC PS and PS2 console myself.

o1s1n · 07-05-2014 04:47PM

I'm seriously considering one of these now to replace the 29 in Trinitron.

Still holding onto the PVM and 1084s, this will be just for when I crave a bigger screen

ghostchant · 07-05-2014 04:59PM

Please tell me you're all using these widescreen HDTVs in 4:3 mode! Will be sticking to the warm glow of my CRT for now, is part of the experience for me.

STG.Otaku · 07-05-2014 05:25PM

Of course. Pop it in 4:3 and away you go. Or 16:9 if required.

o1s1n · 07-05-2014 05:34PM

STG.Otaku wrote: »

Of course. Pop it in 4:3 and away you go. Or 16:9 if required.

One thing though, do you not miss getting shot in the face with electrons?

I feel they give me a healthy glow :pac:

Retr0gamer · 07-05-2014 05:49PM

ghostchant wrote: »

Please tell me you're all using these widescreen HDTVs in 4:3 mode! Will be sticking to the warm glow of my CRT for now, is part of the experience for me.

My remote broke on one TV I had and there was no way to manually force 4:3 through RGB. I refused to play retro games on it.

ghostchant · 07-05-2014 05:49PM

I've worked by (hopefully very well shielded) gamma-ray sources at crotch level and found alpha-particle emitting discs in my pockets after teaching labs (luckily underwear stops things from leaking in as well as out :P ). Electrons to the face* just give me the beta particles I need to complete the set.

*CRTs aren't significant (even slightly) sources of high-speed electrons or x-rays (..well at least not on this side of the glass) you'd have to build yourself into one to get yourself harmed, and I imagine it's the vacuum that'd be the bigger problem there

Steve X2 · 07-05-2014 05:55PM

ghostchant wrote: »

I've worked by (hopefully very well shielded) gamma-ray sources at crotch level and found alpha-particle emitting discs in my pockets after teaching labs (luckily underwear stops things from leaking in as well as out :P ). Electrons to the face* just give me the beta particles I need to complete the set.

*CRTs aren't significant (even slightly) sources of high-speed electrons or x-rays (..well at least not on this side of the glass) you'd have to build yourself into one to get yourself killed, and I imagine it's the vacuum that'd get you there

Nothing beats the radiating glow of the amstrad green screen monitor.

Made me the man I am today:

STG.Otaku · 07-05-2014 06:04PM

o1s1n wrote: »

One thing though, do you not miss getting shot in the face with electrons?

I feel they give me a healthy glow :pac:

Absolutely. But I appreciate the space saving more. :pac:

Andrew76 · 07-05-2014 07:28PM

Steve SI wrote: »

They go for about 250 euro now. For those wondering just how much it is.
That doesn't include shipping etc.

Is that really the true cost of it though (apart from potentially getting stung with customs)? Do you have to get new cables for your consoles (I see no scart or vga input)? Does that hdmi out carry audio too or just video? Do you need any other devices in the chain from console to tv? Is it just one console that can be connected at any one time?

Sounds a bit mad to spend 100s because you don't have space for a CRT, no bigger than your average microwave I would've thought. Unlike a 50" LCD or whatever. :pac:

STG.Otaku · 07-05-2014 08:35PM

Yep. Carries audio and has separate audio out on all inputs. It has a RGB SCART input too though is wired for NTSC J so you may need a converter for a couple of quid, or buy a Euro wired one from Retro Gaming Cables for a few bob (what I did for my PAL PS1).

Other than that you just need a D Terminal to component connector, again minimal cost. As Japan uses DT rather than the component connection we know. You can ask for it to be bundled in if you want at time of sale.

It accepts multiple inputs at once and you just use the remote or buttons on the device to switch input. Its all in English too which is great.

Well worth it overall in my opinion. I don't need to chain anything, I save loads of space and it just works with everything and produces amazing results.

Nothing will beat CRT. That is true. But the Framemeister has a hell of a lot going for it to make it a considered purchase.

Retro Consoles on Modern TV's

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