Why do some atheists seem to be so obsessed with being atheist?

Hotale.com · 25-04-2014 01:19AM

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

'there is no Lord, only self'.

This is such a bold statement. My problem with this is that there's no definite way of disproving the existence of God, so he's after stating something as if it's a facts when it isn't necessarily factual. (I'm not sure if that extract was supposed to be funny or not, so I'll presume it wasn't....)

WilyCoyote · 25-04-2014 01:20AM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Why do birds suddenly appear
Every time. . . you are near?

That's because they long to be
Anywhere but Leitrim.

Adamantium · 25-04-2014 01:22AM

Didn't Christopher Hitchens say (parapharsing) in a debate: "Fine, along as you keep it private ,Just say that you have faith, that you believe, that you will lay your live for something beyond, despite all the evidence to the contrary"

"But if expect us to believe or force us to, don't be surprised if people laugh or get irritated"

Mardy Bum · 25-04-2014 01:23AM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Well then we're all agnostic theists/atheists? Can you disprove something when you have no definite way of disproving it? You can't just say something's not real because there's no proof... and you can't prove anything without proof...

Now my head hurts.

Well you have people who a la the Westboro Baptist Church who would be so deluded that they would believe they have proof and they would be known as gnostic theists.
On the other hand you could have an atheist who is certain that there is no god and they would be referred to as a gnostic atheist.

Agnostic/gnostic refers to knowledge while theism/atheism refers to belief.
Recently agnosticism has been used to describe belief mainly because people face intimidation or ridicule if they refer to themselves as atheist. This is incorrect in philosophical terms.

Hotale.com · 25-04-2014 01:26AM

Adamantium wrote: »

Didn't Christopher Hitchens say (parapharsing) in a debate: "Fine, along as you keep it private ,Just say that you have faith, that you believe, that you will lay your live for something beyond, despite all the evidence to the contrary"

"But if expect us to believe or force us to, don't be surprised if people laugh or get irritated"

Where is the evidence to the contrary? The fact of the matter is that if one was to try to disprove the existence of God they'd have to look beyond science etc.. The whole idea is that God would be on a completely higher level to us, one that we could not reach, so therefore to prove/disprove it we'd have to look beyond the physical world, and into the spiritual world, and this is essentially impossible.

Hotale.com · 25-04-2014 01:28AM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Well you have people who a la the Westboro Baptist Church who would be so deluded that they would believe they have proof and they would be known as gnostic theists.
On the other hand you could have an atheist who is certain that there is no god and they would be referred to as a gnostic atheist.

Agnostic/gnostic refers to knowledge while theism/atheism refers to belief.
Recently agnosticism has been used to describe belief mainly because people face intimidation or ridicule if they refer to themselves as atheist. This is incorrect in philosophical terms.

Okay now I get it. So even if you just decide that God is definitely real or fake with no real evidence to back it up, you'd still be consider gnostic?

Turtwig · 25-04-2014 01:32AM

Because assholes exist in all sexes, cultures, race and religions.

More pedantic answer, it's a very dangerous thing to generalise a group of people based on the experience of the few you know. If you lived in a predominantly white area and and the only ten black people you knew were robbers would you base a generalise of all black people on that experience? Same too should go for theists/atheist alike. We tend to remember negative impressions of people more but that doesn't mean we should bias ourselves against a particular group based on the actions of the few. So, it's unfortunate that the atheists you met seemed arrogant and smug but tarring all atheists by that same brush is a hell of a leap to make. Especially when the majority of atheists won't even let you know they're atheist.

Now, starting a thread about black robbers would be more focused on the negative people but then the question would be why have the group 'black', why not just focus on robbers? Or in this case have the group 'atheist'? These people are clearly anti-theists for one. For another you could group them into the category of arrogant assholes who think they can tell you what you believe and what you ought to believe. And this doesn't just apply to religion it applies to everything from sport to ethics.

Mr Pseudonym · 25-04-2014 01:33AM

xxmeabhxx wrote: »

I think militant atheists take it so seriously because a lot of them are atheist because they've researched or reflected on various aspects of Christianity considerably and have come to the conclusion that certain aspects just don't make sense or can't possibly have happened. This would make their views on the subjects very strong I guess. Also, I imagine a lot of atheists growing up in Ireland were under a lot of pressure to act like a catholic and do things like say prayers in school and make their confirmation. This would make someone feel like they have to rebel to have their views recognized and would make them resent religion.

I think the above is a very good response: most people who have considered something at length tend to have strong opinions; and atheists will like ly feel resentment for having been made to feel abnormal or made to conform. Also, atheists argue for a system without religion-inspired restrictions - a system without any intrusion from by religious organisations. For that reason, they are not comparable to extrovert believers.

Mr. Z · 25-04-2014 01:35AM

Why do some Christians seem to be so obsessed with being Christian?

Why do some Muslims seem to be so obsessed with being Muslim?

Why do some Jews seem to be so obsessed with being Jewish?

WilyCoyote · 25-04-2014 01:37AM

Because they think they're BONO

nelly17 · 25-04-2014 01:43AM

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Because they think they're BONO

I think hes a hypocrit not an Atheist thats a different 'not a religeon' alltogether

Hotale.com · 25-04-2014 01:44AM

Turtwig wrote: »

Because assholes exist in all sexes, cultures, race and religions.

More pedantic answer, it's a very dangerous thing to generalise a group of people based on the experience of the few you know. If you lived in a predominantly white area and and the only ten black people you knew were robbers would you base a generalise of all black people on that experience? Same too should go for theists/atheist alike. We tend to remember negative impressions of people more but that doesn't mean we should bias ourselves against a particular group based on the actions of the few. So, it's unfortunate that the atheists you met seemed arrogant and smug but tarring all atheists by that same brush is a hell of a leap to make. Especially when the majority of atheists won't even let you know they're atheist.

I've tried my best to stress that it's not all atheists I'm annoyed with, in reality I'm probably closer to that side than being a Catholic. There's a "some" in the title of my thread.

Also, I probably would consider most black people to be robbers (I don't!) if the 10 ones I did know were robbers - I can really only judge people based on my own experiences. Anyway, this is getting into dangerous territory here, I'm not a racist and I don't want a sh*tstorm to happen over this.

Amirani · 25-04-2014 12:15PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Okay now I get it. So even if you just decide that God is definitely real or fake with no real evidence to back it up, you'd still be consider gnostic?

Exactly. You'd be surprised with the number of people who are unable/choose not to understand that.

Knight who says Meh · 25-04-2014 12:19PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Firstly, I simply don't care for religion, if you believe in it fine, if you don't fine, just don't try to sway me in either direction.

I've known numerous atheists in my life who get incredibly annoyed by people who are devoutly religious, giving out about how religion manages to take over their lives. Yet they seem to obsess over religion just as much as the most religious people I've met in my life. I've a friend who's into all this "militant atheism" crap, his Facebook page has essentially turned into an atheism blog and he regularly speaks of "how sad religious people are" and how they should "get a life". It's extremely hypocritical. (In fairness I think they're just as sad as each other but each to their own...)

In my opinion religion is fine on a personal level, it keeps people sane in their latter years and must soften the blow when death finally comes knocking, yet I do have some qualms against organised religion but I really do think it's harmless in the vast majority of cases (please don't turn this into a child abuse scandal thread, most priests are genuine).

Anyway AH, discuss, chat, riot, whatever.

Ummm. Does this apply to you what with you starting this thread and all?

FTA69 · 25-04-2014 12:22PM

As an atheist the thing that winds me up about Ireland is the fact that religion is so embedded in the state. Most our schools are still reflective of a religious ethos that is largely dictated by the Vatican despite the fact that these schools are predominantly tax-payer funded. We also have our very constitution imprinted with a load of references to Catholic iconography despite claiming to be a Republic. Likewise this isn't some archaic irrelevance either, it is negatively impacting on people's lives on a constant basis as we recently saw with the Savita case and the fact that women still don't have a choice over termination. It isn't just argument for the sake of it like.

I couldn't give a sh*t what people believe, but when religion and religious ethos starts negatively impacting wider society it can and should be challenged.

And that's even without getting into the fact that atheism at least relies on science and actual proof while religion relies on blind faith, supposition and a backstory of legend.

Knight who says Meh · 25-04-2014 12:27PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Ah yes, the old atheist zealot who thinks they are better than the theist zealot. They're as bad as each other, anyone who is so fanatical, about something ultimately inconsequential, that they feel the need to preach and condescend to other people needs to take a good look at themselves. I regularly have atheists telling me that I am an atheist, to which I just reply "I don't care, leave me alone".

Theres your flaw. Its not inconsequential at all . Religion does damage, lots of it.

Knight who says Meh · 25-04-2014 12:28PM

cursai wrote: »

Because they're unsure in their beliefs. Like....everyone.

Its not a belief, its a lack of.

kowloon · 25-04-2014 12:34PM

The only thing I believe in any more is the zesty flavour of Uncle Ben's oriental lemon chicken with ginger sauce.

Czarcasm · 25-04-2014 12:39PM

I think the people who are the most vocal about their claim to be atheist, are actually arguing anti-theism and secularism, because atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in a deity.

The people who qualify their atheist philosophy with social and political philosophies simply haven't a clue what they're talking about, and claiming they applied scientific theory, critical or rational thought to formulate their anti-theist, secular philosophy, shows they haven't really given atheism much thought at all.

Atheists do not concern themselves with proving or disproving something they know doesn't exist, doesn't exist. They have better things to be doing.

Red Pepper · 25-04-2014 12:40PM

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Im an atheist, thank God

I never say "I am an atheist". I say "I am atheist".
The "an" suggests that we are part of an organisation that meets up to do stuff, which is rarely the case.

mcbert · 25-04-2014 12:40PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

...when I tell them I keep an open mind. You never learn without an open mind, they are the ones being ignorant.

"A window stuck open is just as bad as a window stuck shut. Either way, you’ve lost its use. Ditto for a mind" – Dr Tayo Adeyemi (ironically perhaps for some, a Pastor)

Artful_Badger · 25-04-2014 12:43PM

Its like people being upset with people who use poor grammar, bad drivers, useless workmates, anyone who's doing it wrong basically etc. They are doing it wrong when its all so easy to do it right if you just wake up and put in a tiny bit of effort.

Same with religious belief, just stop and think for one second and you'd see just how absurd it all is. So when it comes to understanding the world around you religious people are doing it wrong. This gets to some people.

Maximus Alexander · 25-04-2014 12:44PM

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

Theres your flaw. Its not inconsequential at all . Religion does damage, lots of it.

It doesn't though. Zealots do damage, religion itself is benign.

You see a lot of atheists slapping each other on the back about how liberated, enlightened and free-thinking they are, and then they turn around and point at religion as the source of all the worlds ills. That's not free thinking, it's moronic.

Take, for example, issues like abortion or gay marriage in Ireland, where a lot of atheists would seek change. The problem here isn't religion. There might be legitimate issues regarding the impact of the Catholic Church on legislation, or separation of church and state. These aren't actually examples of religion being a problem, but of a particular organisation with a large following among the democratic electorate wielding power you might not be comfortable with.

So argue against that, campaign against it, vote against it. It doesn't make sense to draw atheist vs theist battle lines and turn it into a more general Us vs Them war of words and mockery. Tackle each problem on its own merits instead of lumping everyone in to a bucket. The world is far more complicated than that.

The vast majority of religious people out there are quietly going about their lives drawing comfort or happiness from their own faith, hurting nobody, and more power to them. Why should you or I care what beliefs they hold in their heads? It's none of our business, it's inconsequential.

Artful_Badger · 25-04-2014 12:45PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

I never say "I am an atheist". I say "I am atheist".
The "an" suggests that we are part of an organisation that meets up to do stuff, which is rarely the case.

So if you were an asshole that would imply you went to asshole meetings to do asshole stuff ?

Knight who says Meh · 25-04-2014 12:46PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

It doesn't though. Zealots do damage, religion itself is benign.

You see a lot of atheists slapping each other on the back about how liberated, enlightened and free-thinking they are, and then they turn around and point at religion as the source of all the worlds ills. That's not free thinking, it's moronic.

Take, for example, issues like abortion or gay marriage in Ireland, where a lot of atheists would seek change. The problem here isn't religion. There might be legitimate issues regarding the impact of the Catholic Church on legislation, or separation of church and state. These aren't actually examples of religion being a problem, but of a particular organisation with a large following among the democratic electorate wielding power you might not be comfortable with.

So argue against that, campaign against it, vote against it. It doesn't make sense to draw atheist vs theist battle lines and turn it into a more general Us vs Them war of words and mockery. Tackle each problem on its own merits instead of lumping everyone in to a bucket. The world is far more complicated than that.

The vast majority of religious people out there are quietly going about their lives drawing comfort or happiness from their own faith, hurting nobody, and more power to them. Why should you or I care what beliefs they hold in their heads? It's none of our business, it's inconsequential.

The Bible isn't a zealous person. Its the source for Christianity. Its very very into sexism, homophobia, genocide, slavery, stonings and more. This is the source.

Zed Bank · 25-04-2014 12:46PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

This is such a bold statement. My problem with this is that there's no definite way of disproving the existence of God, so he's after stating something as if it's a facts when it isn't necessarily factual. (I'm not sure if that extract was supposed to be funny or not, so I'll presume it wasn't....)

But the burden of proof is on you, theres no definite way of disproving the existence of an invisible flying spaghetti monster, but that dosent mean its real. Both concepts are equally absurd.

CrazyRabbit · 25-04-2014 12:49PM

I think it's because Atheists see religion as a serious form of ignorance and get upset when they see it being preached to others...especially the young. They feel the need to counter this spread of ignorance.
Many Atheists also see religion as one of the main driving forces behind violence, oppression & war.

So, while I don't like being preached to by anyone, I can understand why they feel so strongly against religion and feel obligated to spread their beliefs.

Philo Beddoe · 25-04-2014 12:49PM

Every group has its militants and lots of people are passionate about certain subjects and appear to post nothing but the stuff they're into. I have a friend Facebook who's an anarchist who pretty much posts radical political stuff all the time. I have a few American Christian friends who are like a continuous stream of talk about Jesus etc. Another friend is into nutritionism and spouts complete BS about the dangers of milk, gluten, sugar etc. all the live long day.

Ghost Buster · 25-04-2014 12:50PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

It doesn't though. Zealots do damage, religion itself is benign.

You see a lot of atheists slapping each other on the back about how liberated, enlightened and free-thinking they are, and then they turn around and point at religion as the source of all the worlds ills. That's not free thinking, it's moronic.

Take, for example, issues like abortion or gay marriage in Ireland, where a lot of atheists would seek change. The problem here isn't religion. There might be legitimate issues regarding the impact of the Catholic Church on legislation, or separation of church and state. These aren't actually examples of religion being a problem, but of a particular organisation with a large following among the democratic electorate wielding power you might not be comfortable with.

So argue against that, campaign against it, vote against it. It doesn't make sense to draw atheist vs theist battle lines and turn it into a more general Us vs Them war of words and mockery. Tackle each problem on its own merits instead of lumping everyone in to a bucket. The world is far more complicated than that.

The vast majority of religious people out there are quietly going about their lives drawing comfort or happiness from their own faith, hurting nobody, and more power to them. Why should you or I care what beliefs they hold in their heads? It's none of our business, it's inconsequential.

Then they are head in the sand hypocrites because they are ignoring the nasty hurtful destructive aspects of their books teachings....well...except for Westboro and Muslim extremists and the nice folk who gun down abortion clinic workers all citeing biblical passages as their justification.

FTA69 · 25-04-2014 12:52PM

At the end of the day people are also entitled to debate and criticise the root belief of religion in general without being called bastards for it. If someone came to me and told me they have a strong belief in homeopathy, kinesiology and tarot cards I'd opine they are deluded; it's hard to see a big difference between that and religion.

Why do some atheists seem to be so obsessed with being atheist?

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