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The Jobbridge Scandal

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Comments

  • #2642
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    You are implicitly pushing one of your hobby-horses, but instead of it being the language-based one (which, to an extent, I agree with), it's the 'structural unemployment' one: The idea that there is such high unemployment, because people just don't have the right skills.

    While there are jobs that can have their needs met by improving certain skills among workers, there are not nearly enough of these jobs to make an appreciable dent in the unemployment figures - again, there are not enough jobs.

    Many of these implicit arguments (and some other common ones I've added), tend to rely upon multiple different forms of the 'fallacy of composition':
    Fallacy of Composition|Reality
    "JobBridge reduces unemployment"|JobBridge helps some unemployed workers, compete against the rest of the unemployed, for the same number of jobs (with exceptions for skill-shortage roles - with no stats to quantify JobBridge's contribution here).
    "Removing minimum wage boosts employment"|This can reduce wages/aggregate-demand/business-profits and then reduce employment
    "Slashes wages can boost employment"|For the same reasons as above, can reduce employment.
    "People can get a job, they just need to put more effort in and try harder, to retrain into skilled roles that are in demand"|There are not enough jobs available, not everybody will be employed, no matter how hard they all try or how much effort they collectively put in.
    "Competing on exports (e.g. by slashing wages) can bring recovery"|If all of the world tries to import less and export more all at once (which a great many of our trading partners are, due to the economic crisis), they will all fail, and it will be a race-to-the-bottom in wages/living-standards.
    "Cutting government spending and increasing taxes (austerity) can bring recovery"|Cutting government spending and increasing taxes, reduces aggregate demand, which harms employment and economic activity.
    "A government budget surplus is good"|A budget surplus, without adequate exports to offset the money this removes from the private sector, can drain the private sector of money and cause an over-reliance on credit/debt (which can create an unsustainable debt bubble).


  • #2643
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #2644
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Strawman. Positions not being filled does not equate to a surplus of employment or a lack of interest.


  • #2645
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #2646
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    just a question, if you are getting 60euro a week as you are means tested, does this mean you only get €50 on top of the 60 or do you get the full dole payment of 188 + 50??


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  • #2647
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    bangkok wrote: »
    just a question, if you are getting 60euro a week as you are means tested, does this mean you only get €50 on top of the 60 or do you get the full dole payment of 188 + 50??


    AFAIK its the 60 + 50


  • #2648
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    AFAIK its the 60 + 50


    :eek::eek::eek: 35 hours a week that's slave labour!!!


  • #2649
    Xenji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,506 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    bangkok wrote: »
    just a question, if you are getting 60euro a week as you are means tested, does this mean you only get €50 on top of the 60 or do you get the full dole payment of 188 + 50??

    You would just get €110 a week.


  • #2650
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    It indicates that jobs can be filled by people from outside Ireland. What else would it indicate.


  • #2651
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #2652
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Its not impossible. You don't really expect every single irish person to be employed before we hire non nationals do you?


  • #2653
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    bangkok wrote: »
    :eek::eek::eek: 35 hours a week that's slave labour!!!

    but you will people try to tell you its ok its experience :rolleyes::rolleyes::mad:
    and you should be glad of chance to get it:pac:


  • #2654
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #2655
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    That is effectively what you said and it is not surprising in the slightest.


  • #2656
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    SCOOP 64 wrote: »
    Iv never been asked or forced to do anything.
    I think Ive fallen between the cracks,applied for courses/jobs, never hear anything back, i really think when you reach a certain age they just no bother with you, priority goes to younger people.

    This is true imo. I'm relatively young (27) and they are getting on to me which I have no problem with, I only fear being forced into something that is a waste of my time/ unsuited to me / invalid.

    But someone I know for example has been signing on for I think 2+ years and he has had barely any contact with them and hasn't been brought into the stream like myself.


  • #2657
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #2658
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Because its not either/other. Positions will be filled from both Irish and non-Irish workers.


  • #2659
    SCOOP 64
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    Call Me Jimmy wrote: »
    This is true imo. I'm relatively young (27) and they are getting on to me which I have no problem with, I only fear being forced into something that is a waste of my time/ unsuited to me / invalid.

    But someone I know for example has been signing on for I think 2+ years and he has had barely any contact with them and hasn't been brought into the stream like myself.

    Yes the is the fear of most people on the dole, being force to do a scheme,
    like Tus scheme offering €20 extra,maybe doing council work ,street cleaning,park maintenance, now before anyone starts, I'm not knocking this work, these are jobs, but should remain council full time jobs with a fair weeks pay.
    And as for the hotel work being discussed here, postions not being filled be it non nationals or not,
    i have applied for every type of work including hotel, and never hear anything back, were does this class me!


  • #2660
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,570 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Yes the is the fear of most people on the dole, being force to do a scheme,
    like Tus scheme offering €20 extra,maybe doing council work ,street cleaning,park maintenance, now before anyone starts, I'm not knocking this work, these are jobs, but should remain council full time jobs with a fair weeks pay.
    Could I ask you what you propose for those that dont want to work? whos only contribution is to hold their hand out? pay them the same rate long term as those that have been made redundant, possibly paid in tens if not hundreds of thousands and be "entitled" to the same welfare rates, state pension etc?


  • #2661
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    The solution to a problem with a small minority shouldn't negatively impact the majority imo.


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  • #2662
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #2663
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,850 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    bangkok wrote: »
    :eek::eek::eek: 35 hours a week that's slave labour!!!

    Welcome to Job Bridge ;)


  • #2664
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Welcome to Job Bridge ;)

    that's a disgrace.....I mean that works out at 3.14 per hour!!!


  • #2665
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Being forced into a position of no relevance to you for 40 hours at week at 50 euro extra week and incurring increased costs when you are already broke is a horror for some people. I am not sure why you keep ridiculing people that are in financial difficulties but it is completely unnecessary.


  • #2666
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,570 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    The solution to a problem with a small minority shouldn't negatively impact the majority imo.
    Id be using the money saved on the wasters to create jobs for those that actually want them! Morally its simply a disgrace in my opinion, that you can simply opt of any contribution to society and milk it for all its worth, from the cradle to the grave...


  • #2667
    Xenji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,506 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    bangkok wrote: »
    that's a disgrace.....I mean that works out at 3.14 per hour!!!

    It is different for everyone, you can do between 30 and 40 hours a week, and the maximum some will be taking home a week is €238 and the least €150, some could be making €7.95 an hour or €3.75 an hour depending on what end of the spectrum you are on, that does not include people who are being means tested though, for them it could be less a far bit less than €3.75 an hour.


  • #2668
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    Xenji wrote: »
    It is different for everyone, you can do between 30 and 40 hours a week, and the maximum some will be taking home a week is €238 a week, some could be making €7.95 an hour or €3.75 an hour depending on what end of the spectrum you are on, that does not include people who are being means tested though, for them it could be less than €3.75 an hour.


    surely though there is a minimum you should be getting though?? I mean why would anyone want to work 35 hours a week for 110?


  • #2669
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #2670
    SCOOP 64
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Could I ask you what you propose for those that dint want to work? who's only contribution is to hold their hand out? pay them the same rate long term as those that have been made redundant, possibly paid in tens if not hundreds of thousands and be "entitled" to the same welfare rates, state pension etc?

    How many of these people are there that actually never want to work,
    i hear this all the time you would think that 375,000 of the 400,000 were people who never want to work, but still lets put them altogether and treat them all the same even the people who are doing all they can to find work.
    there will always be people like this boom time or not, but every working person is more concerned about them, then the people genuinely looking for work.i really dont care about these people, they must lead very sad lives,
    as long as people who want to work get full time jobs one day, thats all i care about.


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  • #2671
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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