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The Jobbridge Scandal

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Comments

  • #2402
    Mrs Garth Brooks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭Mrs Garth Brooks


    danotroy wrote: »
    Are they really? I think you have got the wrong idea of what your local social welfare officer is. They are not supposed to be treated like your guidance councillor from school.

    Employment services officer.

    I asked citizens information and was told they're there to help you and not bully you.


  • #2403
    danotroy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭danotroy


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    You wouldn't see anyone here complaining about an internship for that role though.

    I have popped into this thread various times over the last few months and there generally seems to be a resentment towards the entire scheme in general. I was listening to 96fm today as i saw that they were doing a piece on job bridge. The amount of negative comments towards the scheme was staggering.


  • #2404
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    danotroy wrote: »
    I have popped into this thread various times over the last few months and there generally seems to be a resentment towards the entire scheme in general. I was listening to 96fm today as i saw that they were doing a piece on job bridge. The amount of negative comments towards the scheme was staggering.

    People rarely come to share successful stories, you will more often see people posting negative experiences and invalid internships. The scheme seems to have little enforced regulation with many positions being offered for work that does not require an internship. Thats what has people annoyed.


  • #2405
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #2406
    danotroy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭danotroy


    HardLuckWoman wrote: »
    Employment services officer.

    I asked citizens information and was told they're there to help you and not bully you.



    ESO's are there to assist jobseekers with access to the job market. getting you on a course is giving you access to the job market. I don't think they are there to be used as a sounding board for ideas and as a guidance councillor type role.


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  • #2407
    lalaledge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭lalaledge


    Can I ask does anyone know what your rights are on a job bridge placement? My friend has had an awful review from a manager (who she had little to do with), based completely on her personality (her work ethic, skills etc were praised- but the manager said she would struggle to give her a reference because she's too bantery with other staff). This review has come a few weeks before she's due to finish - she wasn't appraised at all during her time there, so no time to work on criticism (or time to call it constructive).

    My friend feels that her whole time there (it's a charity, she works full time and does stuff like personal care etc so no walk in the park) has been invalidated.

    Can she go to HR?

    Surely they have to give her a reference?


  • #2408
    Xenji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,506 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    danotroy wrote: »
    I have popped into this thread various times over the last few months and there generally seems to be a resentment towards the entire scheme in general. I was listening to 96fm today as i saw that they were doing a piece on job bridge. The amount of negative comments towards the scheme was staggering.

    The scheme has a success rate of 17%, it is hardly what you call a triumph, overhaul the scheme and get rid of the micky mouse internships and replace them with worthwhile ones that are properly vetted and supervised and maybe a lot of that negativity will go.


  • #2409
    danotroy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭danotroy


    Xenji wrote: »
    The scheme has a success rate of 17%, it is hardly what you call a triumph, overhaul the scheme and get rid of the micky mouse internships and replace them with worthwhile ones that are properly vetted and supervision and maybe a lot of that negativity will go.


    This would be ideal!

    What do you mean a success rate of 17%? are you insinuating that an internship is only successful if the intern secures a role within the same organisation they interned with?


  • #2410
    danotroy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭danotroy


    lalaledge wrote: »
    Can I ask does anyone know what your rights are on a job bridge placement? My friend has had an awful review from a manager (who she had little to do with), based completely on her personality (her work ethic, skills etc were praised- but the manager said she would struggle to give her a reference because she's too bantery with other staff). This review has come a few weeks before she's due to finish - she wasn't appraised at all during her time there, so no time to work on criticism (or time to call it constructive).

    My friend feels that her whole time there (it's a charity, she works full time and does stuff like personal care etc so no walk in the park) has been invalidated.

    Can she go to HR?

    Surely they have to give her a reference?


    Probably a question more suited to the work and jobs forum.


  • #2411
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Again the 'fallacy of composition': The idea that removing the minimum wage, will increase employment for certain sectors/people, when instead it can lead to widespread wage cuts, which then reduce aggregate demand, and can then potentially reduce employment, even for the targeted 'young and unskilled' workers.

    Happy to keep batting this one down, every time it comes up.


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  • #2412
    Xenji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,506 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    danotroy wrote: »
    This would be ideal!

    What do you mean a success rate of 17%? are you insinuating that an internship is only successful if the intern secures a role within the same organisation they interned with?

    Just over 8% get kept on by their host organisation and a further 8% find work after their internship according to the Indecon report.


  • #2413
    danotroy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭danotroy


    Xenji wrote: »
    Just over 8% get kept on by their host organisation and a further 8% find work after their internship according to the Indecon report.

    What period after the internship does the intern have to find work in order for them to be considered successful?


  • #2414
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #2415
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #2416
    hypersquirrel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭hypersquirrel


    lalaledge wrote: »
    Can I ask does anyone know what your rights are on a job bridge placement? My friend has had an awful review from a manager (who she had little to do with), based completely on her personality (her work ethic, skills etc were praised- but the manager said she would struggle to give her a reference because she's too bantery with other staff). This review has come a few weeks before she's due to finish - she wasn't appraised at all during her time there, so no time to work on criticism (or time to call it constructive).

    My friend feels that her whole time there (it's a charity, she works full time and does stuff like personal care etc so no walk in the park) has been invalidated.

    Can she go to HR?

    Surely they have to give her a reference?

    Under the Jobbridge scheme the host must provide a reference detailing professional development and experience acquired.


  • #2417
    Xenji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,506 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    The original draft of the Indecon report showed that only 8% of interns were kept on by their host organisation with a 75% dropout rate that was then lowered to 59%. So only 8.2% of people who have done an internship have been kept on by their host organisation and nearly the same figure have got employment elsewhere. Taking that into account, only around 17% of people who have done JobBridge have gotten a job out of it.
    Around a fifth of participants got work within the organisation where they were doing their work experience, with nearly 17% getting a job elsewhere.

    The research suggests those who worked in the private sector were more likely to get employment.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/consultant-report-into-controversial-jobbridge-scheme-recommends-more-reports-29236030.html

    You fancy yourself to be Gordon Gecko, I am sure you can figure out those figures.


  • #2418
    danotroy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭danotroy


    from your link

    Around a fifth of participants got work within the organisation where they were doing their work experience, with nearly 17% getting a job elsewhere



    In any case this is more than 8% and 8% right?


  • #2419
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Xenji wrote: »
    The original draft of the Indecon report showed that only 8% of interns were kept on by their host organisation with a 75% dropout rate that was then lowered to 59%. So only 8.2% of people who have done an internship have been kept on by their host organisation and nearly the same figure have got employment elsewhere. Taking that into account, only around 17% of people who have done JobBridge have gotten a job out of it.

    8/41(i.e. excluding those who dropped out) * 100 = 19.5%

    plus 17% elsewhere

    = 36.5% from those who either completed the internship or got employed before finishing.


  • #2420
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    danotroy wrote: »
    Around a fifth of participants got work within the organisation where they were doing their work experience, with nearly 17% getting a job elsewhere

    Technically it is a fifth of those who did not drop out before it was finished, so if you go by the no. of people who attempted jobbridge (dropped out or not), it is 8% + 17%.

    So 25% including dropouts and 36.5% excluding dropouts.


  • #2421
    Xenji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,506 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    danotroy wrote: »
    from your link

    Around a fifth of participants got work within the organisation where they were doing their work experience, with nearly 17% getting a job elsewhere



    In any case this is more than 8% and 8% right?

    Only 41% on interns completed their internship, so the figure is taken from that figure only.


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  • #2422
    danotroy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭danotroy


    Xenji wrote: »
    Only 41% on interns completed their internship, so the figure is taken from that figure only.

    But of the 59% of those who did not complete their internship how many left to take up a full time role?


  • #2423
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    danotroy wrote: »
    But of the 59% of those who did not complete their internship how many left to take up a full time role?

    I haven't read the study but I presume with my limited report writing abilities that they would have had those who left for fulltime employment, marked not as dropouts. It would be disingenuous and really daft in terms of making the figures look good, to call it anything else.


  • #2424
    Xenji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,506 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    danotroy wrote: »
    But of the 59% of those who did not complete their internship how many left to take up a full time role?

    We do not know and if they did it would not have much to do with the success of the scheme as we know the figure of how many people got kept on by their host organisation, I am pretty sure the people hired early would be included in that figure as well.


  • #2425
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #2426
    Xenji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,506 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I haven't read the study but I presume with my limited report writing abilities that they would have had those who left for fulltime employment, marked not as dropouts. It would be disingenuous and really daft in terms of making the figures look good, to call it anything else.

    It does not say, only that 17% of those who completed their internship found work outside their host organisation.


  • #2427
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #2428
    sligoface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭sligoface


    The bookshop web designer internship is still rubbish even if there is some sort of mentor who is an actual designer. A web designer would need to be able to work on a variety of different projects not just one type of website. A web development firm is the ideal place for such an internship, not a bookshop. There was one last month for a glass work company that makes windows and doors for showers, etc who were also looking for a web designer intern. It is not going to make much sense on a CV to have an internship at a window installation company unless you are learning how to install windows, or at a bookshop unless you are learning how to sell books. And these businesses have been around for a while, they are not startups.

    If it wasn't for these internships they'd have to pay someone, which shows how the scheme affects more than just the unemployed, a lot of people in fields like web design are freelance and self employed, they are being undercut by slavebridge.

    My guess is in these cases they have hire a real designer to make the website, then leave it to the intern to maintain the database and make updates with the CMS. The scope of their learning would be very limited as once the site is up and running they'll really just be working as a free employee to keep sales and orders up to date, not learning how to design websites for nine months.


  • #2429
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,856 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Are you not doing the same by arguing that anybody who found work after doing an internship in your percentages for success stories?

    Consider Jane, who has experience in computer programming. She is doing an internship on jobbridge as a real estate assistant. She continues to apply for jobs and six months into the programme, gets a job as a computer programmer. Her new employer was not even aware that she was interning. To any neutral observer, Jame's internship was not a factor in finding employment. But to posters grinding an idelogical axe, Jane is a jobbridge 'success' because any employement should be counted among the scheme's successes.

    Simply quoting percentages of people who did an internship and later got a job, without any examination of what impact, if any, the internship had on their employability in their new job, illuminates nothing.


  • #2430
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #2431
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,856 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    To assume that the internship always plays a role in the person finding employment, to the extent that it can be considered a jobbridge success, is a stretch, no matter how you look at it.

    It was still an argument you had no problem making though.


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