Advertisement
Private Profiles - an update on how they will be changing here
We've partnered up with Nixers.com to offer a space where you can talk directly to Peter from Nixers.com and get an exclusive Boards.ie discount code for a free job listing. If you are recruiting or know anyone else who is please check out the forum here.

Diacetyl et al.

  • 10-03-2014 5:04pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭ accaguest


    Hi all,

    Just wondering has anybody been put off or even quit vaping by the thought of the chemicals and their effects. I never gave much thought to it before, thinking it was people having difficulty with the new, but someone mentioned Diacetyl to me yesterday and I had to pretend like I knew what he was talking about. A search and a thread on ECF have me a bit freaked.


    Thanks


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,674 ✭✭✭ DirtyBollox


    you actually read up on that stuff? it adds a buttery taste to most things, its in butter and..... beer.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diacetyl

    Doesnt seem to cause any health issue in low amounts.
    The European Commission has declared diacetyl is legal for use as a flavouring substance in all EU states.[28] As a diketone, diacetyl is included in the EU's flavouring classification Flavouring Group Evaluation 11 (FGE.11). A Scientific Panel of the EU Commission evaluated six flavouring substances (not including diacetyl) from FGE.11 in 2004.[29] As part of this study, the panel reviewed available studies on several other flavourings in FEG.11, including diacetyl. Based on the available data, the panel reiterated the finding that there were no safety concerns for diacetyl's use as a flavouring.

    and in 2007 they went back to it to see if new scientific data had been unveiled in relation to this and nothing has come of it it seems. And if it has its not on the wiki page.

    Always research things yourself before basing your life and own decisions on hearsay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭ accaguest


    But it, and presumably many other added flavours and chemical compounds like it that juices use, are only declared safe for their intended use - which is certainly not vapourising.

    Sorry, but that thread's got me spinning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭ accaguest


    Okay, it's flavourless only for me starting right now. I made it myself from PG, VG Bio and Nicotine with PG/VG. I hope there isn't anything else in it and this removes the worry.

    I just brewed 150ml of Mom and Pops' flavours but they've got to go for peace of mind.

    I feel really stupid. Sitting on my arse getting out of my box on daft flavours and not even considering if this was safe to be shooting down to my lungs. Somebody I've being trying to convert finally caved and wants me to set him up and I don't want to be influencing him at all now.

    Popcorn lung. Jesus Christ.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭ tommy2bad


    you actually read up on that stuff? it adds a buttery taste to most things, its in butter and..... beer.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diacetyl

    Doesnt seem to cause any health issue in low amounts.



    and in 2007 they went back to it to see if new scientific data had been unveiled in relation to this and nothing has come of it it seems. And if it has its not on the wiki page.

    Always research things yourself before basing your life and own decisions on hearsay.
    Ahem! safe for general use, unfortunately it is implicated in Popcorn Lung when it's inhaled. While we might never inhale enough to make much difference as the trouble seem to be in industrial use, best to be safe (especially with ppl looking for bad things to say) and leave diacetyl out of mixes. It's not necessary anyway as other flavors can achieve the same buttery effect.
    Continue to enjoy your microwave popcorn like a politician...don't inhale!
    http://www.medicinenet.com/popcorn_lung_symptoms_and_causes/views.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ bd2012


    Ouch. That doesn't sound good at all. How about some vendor action here regarding their stance on diacetyl ie is it present in their juices or not or a list of which juices contain it?? Just a thought


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭ grindle


    Vendors aren't allowed to vend here, not sure how them specifying safety info might be viewed... Could be seen as advertising.


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ bd2012


    Ah fair enough. Like I said was only an idea. Still though it would be nice to see that information somewhere


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭ dePeatrick


    you actually read up on that stuff? it adds a buttery taste to most things, its in butter and..... beer.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diacetyl

    Doesnt seem to cause any health issue in low amounts.



    and in 2007 they went back to it to see if new scientific data had been unveiled in relation to this and nothing has come of it it seems. And if it has its not on the wiki page.

    Always research things yourself before basing your life and own decisions on hearsay.
    The United States National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health has suggested diacetyl, when used in artificial butter flavoring (as used in many consumer foods), may be hazardous when heated and inhaled over a long period.
    Workers in several factories that manufacture artificial butter flavoring have been diagnosed with bronchiolitis obliterans, a rare and serious disease of the lungs. The cases found have been mainly in young, healthy, nonsmoking males. As with other end-stage lung diseases, transplantation is currently the most viable treatment option. However, lung transplant rejection is very common and happens to be another setting in which bronchiolitis obliterans is known to occur.

    From wiki.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭ grindle


    bd2012 wrote: »
    Ah fair enough. Like I said was only an idea. Still though it would be nice to see that information somewhere

    'Twould. Even if there were a vast repo of chemicals deemed safe for inhalation however, what reactions are happening whilst we vapourise? Hopefully Farsalinos' vapour studies will bring much more info about this to light.

    We have to stay blind while tests are carried out unfortunately, try our best to evaluate and avoid or minimise possible dangers if desired.


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ bd2012


    Wise words as ever grindle. I guess I am just gonna have to exercise a little restraint on the buttery custardy flavours (actually now I think of it I don't really know what is really in any of the flavours)for now until we know more.

    On the flip side I feel my lungs are in wayyyyy better shape than when I was smoking so I guess you gotta balance that as well and not automatically assume a state of moral panic.

    I still think a simple thing such as a list of ingredients used in various flavours would put some minds at ease, not to mention illustrate a form of clarity that would give the anti-vaping interested parties less ammunition.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭ tommy2bad


    Ahh hang on, we vape no where near the levels that someone working in a factory using the chemicals would. Also the diacetyl thing is known about for over 2 years now, I don't think anyone uses it anymore. Their was a panic over cinnamon flavoring for a while, hell the EU even brought in regulations on how much could be in a serving of food, but IIRC K Farstinos said it was a panic over nothing as amounts were so small and cinnamon needed cooking to produce carcinogens. Remember we never burn what we vape right? Keep your wick wet as they say.

    However it dose raise a good point, why didn't the ecig regs in the tpd address the real concerns like which flavours are worrisome and what grade of propellant is safe? Why no requirement for a mention of allergic reactions on labels?
    Oh yeah, because they didn't care about health, they care about restrictions to protect existing markets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ bd2012


    Yip. That's why I said it has to be balanced against my lungs feeling a whole pile better and not running scared.

    However we do not really know what is in the flavourings and their effects in inhalation. Many have been tested and recommended as safe for ingestion but inhalation is a different ball game.

    Don't get me wrong. I love vaping and I love how it has helped me stop smoking. And it is from this position as a vaper who hopes to continue vaping happily that I would like to see more transparency. It can only enhance the future of something I enjoy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭ accaguest


    I probably flew off the handle up there.

    Tbh I was hoping someone was going to come in with a simple rebuke, but that hasn't happened on any thread I've seen yet. The best seems to be be careful, have limits and do or do not. Personal choice.

    I'm a bit worried, more about what I don't know than what I do, so I'll cater my own vaping accordingly. I didn't know the term 'Natural Flavour' was so misleading. In my unscientific mind I had a vision of some big pot of bananas being cooked in a vat and liquidised.

    Anyway, I just tried some flavourless for the first time. It's good, very good. Probably a bit too similar to traditional smoking for my tastes (maybe that's the cotton wick though?). I love that vaping nic flavours is so different to analogs, I don't compare them at all anymore. If I had tried flavourless sooner I would have kept some around I think though. Beats a lot of tobacco flavours imo.

    Dekang, from ecirette anyway, have their flavours listed but I don't know how much better I feel that I'm inhaling something called acetylpyradine or methyl-butric-acid or whatever. This could be just ignorance on my part, many/all of these may be proven safe to inhale but I'll ease back for the moment and maybe look to wind down soonish. :(

    VG, PG, Distilled Water/Alcohol, Nic are still good right? Right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭ dePeatrick


    "VG, PG, Distilled Water/Alcohol, Nic are still good right? Right"

    Well definitely the safest option, I have moved away from the tobacco flavours using real tobacco leaves as I started coughing all over again and I really notice the difference. I am going to take a leaf out of your book and try some unflavoured liquid next.

    There is way too many unknowns in the various chemicals and tobacco extracts used in eliquids for anyone to state that they are safe. Until all of these and their combinations are tested which will take some time, we are taking a risk inhaling chemicals.

    After 40 years smoking cancer sticks I am taking no more chances, my lungs have taken enough abuse :D

    In the meantime there really should be labelling on bottles of eliquid or published on vendors websites exactly what chemicals are contained in the various eliquids.

    It is up to us as vapers to keep the pressure on for vendors to do this, at the moment not even the PG/VG ratio is marked on all eliquids, nor how much alcohol. I also am pretty sure that the quality of same bottles of a specific eliquid vary enormously in taste and am having reservations about the constancy if nicotine levels as well since I cut down to very low levels.

    Caveat Emptor
    Let the buyer beware.....and just like the tobacco industry, it may not be the small company that sells dodgy liquid, far more likely the upcoming Phillip Morris or British American Tobacco like companies who do not give a damm about the consumer and only care about the profit margins.


Advertisement