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Swiftway - Bus Rapid Transit (BRT)

1…1516182021

Comments

  • #512
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    cdebru wrote: »
    Where will these laybys be fitted ? Because the only places really on that route where you could fit them they probably won't need them. Nevermind our history of laybys is dismal realistically to get a double decker bus properly into a layby they need to be about 3m wide and about 30m long and even longer depending on the maximum number of buses per hour operating at that stop.

    AND cdebru......you're forgetting THE most important aspect of an Irish Lay-By....Several granite boulders,each large enough to prevent motor vehicles (and any caravans attached thereto ;)) from entering such Lay-By's.....bit of an oul conundrum here isn't there...:)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #513
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,127 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    ", you can paint as many lines as you like on the road but if the gardai refuse to enforce them it is merely a waste of paint."
    Lane cameras . Works well in other countries... Probably a lot cheaper than a Garda anyhow..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #514
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    Markcheese wrote: »
    ", you can paint as many lines as you like on the road but if the gardai refuse to enforce them it is merely a waste of paint."
    Lane cameras . Works well in other countries... Probably a lot cheaper than a Garda anyhow..

    Why not have cameras at the front of the BRT vehicles, any car in front is scanned and a fine issued?


  • #515
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    Why not have cameras at the front of the BRT vehicles, any car in front is scanned and a fine issued?

    All Dublin Bus vehicles have front facing cameras already do you see anything happening ?? You don't need to spend 650m you just need the political will to get the various bodies to actually work together, but there is zero evidence of that happening anytime some, we have badly designed bus lanes and bus stops, we have traffic light priority turned off, we have the councils favouring parking spaces over public transport, we have double doors that can't be used, and we have Gardai who say it is too difficult to police sections of bus lane so they are just not going to bother.
    Besides a front camera will only catch the last car in a line of 30/40/50.

    If they wanted to a fixed camera at the point cars are allowed cross the bus lane, if you are in it before it catches everyone not the last gob****e in the queue


  • #516
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,633 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cdebru wrote: »
    What would you prefer to call it, you are using a spurious claim that there will be a 5km gap between stops as a justification for your argument that current routes and stops should be maintained but hide behind the oh we haven't seen the full plans yet to defend that position. Like I said you can't have it both ways.

    BTW I edited the post to explain the 2 minute headway.

    And lastly the NTA FAQ also state that stops will be 500 to 800 metres apart and conveniently located to suit the maximum number of passengers.



    Look there are several issues here:

    1) Location of BRT stops - there are totally conflicting messages from the NTA about that. While the FAQ is saying 500-800m apart, the map is certainly showing at least 5 stops each being over 1km apart, namely those from the Airport to Santry South (I measured them out). The second issue is that the schematic is bizarrely showing that at least three stops are potentially not being included initially, but "may" be in the future. If that were the case there would be 4.7km between two stops.

    So there is totally conflicting information on that issue which frankly is very misleading - they need to be far clearer about it.

    2) The reason I am saying that normal buses would be still needed not specific to the Swords route. It is that by its very nature BRT is going to have far fewer stops than the normal bus service, as it is effectively LUAS on wheels. That means people may have to walk perhaps twice the distance they normally do or more to get to a BRT stop. That may be fine for normal able bodied people, but the bus service is there for everyone, and I would not like to see a situation where older people (or those who are not able bodied) are forced to have to make a longer walk than they have to right now.

    If we take the Swords corridor as outlined currently (including the two stops at Collinstown and Turnapin), the difference on the would be to cut the number of stops from 25 to 10 between the Airport and Parnell Square.

    That's a lot less stops and a lot more walking that would be required. That may be fine for some, but not for others. I just don't think you can make that sort of change without making some provision for those who maybe can't walk the extra distance - it's too drastic.

    While I think the BRT stops need to be better aligned, and add an extra couple, the balance will still need to be served by a regular bus service, albeit at a reduced frequency over what is currently provided.

    That principle has been applied along each of the LUAS routes to date - there are still normal bus routes operating along them, and alongside the DART/Commuter rail routes.

    While in principle I am in favour of BRT, and I think it's an exciting proposal, I would not like to lose sight of the community aspect of the bus service that currently exists, which are regular bus stops along the route. That, whether people like it or not, is part of the service obligation of the standard city bus service.

    3) Connectivity - Removing all the other bus routes altogether means removing the direct connections that have been established to other parts of the city as KD345 points out above - that would be a retrograde step.

    Now how all of that can be delivered is something that the engineers behind the process will have to tell us when we get to EIS stage, because I cannot see in any detail from the plans as they stand as to how that is planned to happen. We're not going to find that out right now, so that's why I cannot make a detailed assessment of the BRT plans until we have those detailed plans and can see exactly what they are proposing.

    In the meantime I do plan on visiting at one of the consultation days that I linked to above, and will try to tease out exactly what the planners' views are on how they expect BRT to sit on the roads.

    Finally, I'm not an engineer, but I am a customer, and I'm as much entitled to my opinion on how this should operate as you are, and for it not to be rubbished as "bull".


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  • #517
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Look there are several issues here:

    1) Location of BRT stops - there are totally conflicting messages from the NTA about that. While the FAQ is saying 500-800m apart, the map is certainly showing at least 5 stops each being over 1km apart, namely those from the Airport to Santry South (I measured them out). The second issue is that the schematic is bizarrely showing that at least three stops are potentially not being included initially, but "may" be in the future. If that were the case there would be 4.7km between two stops.

    So there is totally conflicting information on that issue which frankly is very misleading - they need to be far clearer about it.

    2) The reason I am saying that normal buses would be still needed not specific to the Swords route. It is that by its very nature BRT is going to have far fewer stops than the normal bus service, as it is effectively LUAS on wheels. That means people may have to walk perhaps twice the distance they normally do or more to get to a BRT stop. That may be fine for normal able bodied people, but the bus service is there for everyone, and I would not like to see a situation where older people (or those who are not able bodied) are forced to have to make a longer walk than they have to right now.

    If we take the Swords corridor as outlined currently (including the two stops at Collinstown and Turnapin), the difference on the would be to cut the number of stops from 25 to 10 between the Airport and Parnell Square.

    That's a lot less stops and a lot more walking that would be required. That may be fine for some, but not for others. I just don't think you can make that sort of change without making some provision for those who maybe can't walk the extra distance - it's too drastic.

    While I think the BRT stops need to be better aligned, and add an extra couple, the balance will still need to be served by a regular bus service, albeit at a reduced frequency over what is currently provided.

    That principle has been applied along each of the LUAS routes to date - there are still normal bus routes operating along them, and alongside the DART/Commuter rail routes.

    While in principle I am in favour of BRT, and I think it's an exciting proposal, I would not like to lose sight of the community aspect of the bus service that currently exists, which are regular bus stops along the route. That, whether people like it or not, is part of the service obligation of the standard city bus service.

    3) Connectivity - Removing all the other bus routes altogether means removing the direct connections that have been established to other parts of the city as KD345 points out above - that would be a retrograde step.

    Now how all of that can be delivered is something that the engineers behind the process will have to tell us when we get to EIS stage, because I cannot see in any detail from the plans as they stand as to how that is planned to happen. We're not going to find that out right now, so that's why I cannot make a detailed assessment of the BRT plans until we have those detailed plans and can see exactly what they are proposing.

    In the meantime I do plan on visiting at one of the consultation days that I linked to above, and will try to tease out exactly what the planners' views are on how they expect BRT to sit on the roads.

    Finally, I'm not an engineer, but I am a customer, and I'm as much entitled to my opinion on how this should operate as you are, and for it not to be rubbished as "bull".

    Why so precious about being told what you said is bull when you have no problem telling others they are living in cloud cuckoo land ?


    I'm not going to continue to repeat myself the NTA are talking about peak time headways of 2 minutes, there is no space to provide laybys of the size and quantity that would be needed. Couple that with the bendybuses proposed which make overtaking much more difficult and there is no way you can do swords to city in 35 mins on anything like a regular basis which is the purpose allegedly of spending 650m.

    If you have buses stopping every 200 to 300 metres in front of those BRT buses they are just going to pile up behind them. And what is the point of being able to walk the 400metres to the normal city bus stop to stand for an hour waiting for your reduced service?


  • #518
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    lxflyer wrote: »
    .
    1) Location of BRT stops - there are totally conflicting messages from the NTA about that. While the FAQ is saying 500-800m apart, the map is certainly showing at least 5 stops each being over 1km apart, namely those from the Airport to Santry South (I measured them out). The second issue is that the schematic is bizarrely showing that at least three stops are potentially not being included initially, but "may" be in the future. If that were the case there would be 4.7km between two stops.


    2) The reason I am saying that normal buses would be still needed not specific to the Swords route. It is that by its very nature BRT is going to have far fewer stops than the normal bus service, as it is effectively LUAS on wheels. That means people may have to walk perhaps twice the distance they normally do or more to get to a BRT stop. That may be fine for normal able bodied people, but the bus service is there for everyone, and I would not like to see a situation where older people (or those who are not able bodied) are forced to have to make a longer walk than they have to right now.

    If we take the Swords corridor as outlined currently (including the two stops at Collinstown and Turnapin), the difference on the would be to cut the number of stops from 25 to 10 between the Airport and Parnell Square.

    That's a lot less stops and a lot more walking that would be required. That may be fine for some, but not for others. I just don't think you can make that sort of change without making some provision for those who maybe can't walk the extra distance - it's too drastic.

    While I think the BRT stops need to be better aligned, and add an extra couple, the balance will still need to be served by a regular bus service, albeit at a reduced frequency over what is currently provided.

    I think the NTA have it about right here...they appear to have rationalized their remit actually does extend to encouraging people to walk or cycle when required...

    http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/draft_strategy.pdf
    Walking and cycling can contribute to the
    health and wellbeing of GDA residents and
    the communities they live in. The Strategy
    needs to identify how walking and cycling can
    be encouraged, including for leisure and
    recreational purposes
    Some policy and integration measures meet
    all objectives and are, therefore, included in
    all Strategy options. These measures include
    planning of new developments to support
    travel by walking, cycling and public transport,
    improvements to the walking and cycling
    environment, improved public transport
    information and integrated fares and ticketing

    As somebody who was up-close,and personal with "Hail n Ride" Dublin Style,I know only too well the uphill battle Gerry Murphy and his Pacemakers now face....;) ;);)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #519
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    It should also be pointed out that DB seems to have had no problem with reducing services to various estates as part of Network Direct and making people walk further. In fact it was the reason for it.

    As an example, the 123 no longer meanders it's way through the Marino Estate, instead now going straight up Philisburgh Avenue instead. This is a very old estate, with a great deal of elderly people, but it seems DB have no problem with now making these people walk further to get to their bus stop in return for a faster service.

    I think the reality has started to dawn on both the NTA and DB that it simply isn't possible to deliver a service to 100% of people (something they clearly never achieved anyway!) and also deliver a fast and efficient service that attracts the majority of people to public transport.

    They are simply incompatible goals. DB/NTA can either deliver:

    - A slow, meandering service that attempts to serve 100% of people, but which few people use as it is so slow and inefficient.
    - A fast, efficient, direct service that attracts many new people to public transport thanks to it's speed and frequency.

    Also I think it is slightly insulting to suggest that old and disabled people can't and won't walk 500 meters to get to a bus stop! If they are able bodied enough to make it 200 meters, then they most likely can also do 500 meters (maybe slowly). The reality is that when they arrive their destination, they are likely going to have to walk more then 500 meters anyway!


  • #520
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,633 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cdebru wrote: »
    Why so precious about being told what you said is bull when you have no problem telling others they are living in cloud cuckoo land?

    It annoyed me because you effectively accused me of lying about the distance between BRT stops, when as my first point clearly shows there IS conflicting information on the NTA site about where the BRT stops are going to be located.


  • #521
    KD345
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭KD345


    bk wrote: »
    It should also be pointed out that DB seems to have had no problem with reducing services to various estates as part of Network Direct and making people walk further. In fact it was the reason for it.

    As an example, the 123 no longer meanders it's way through the Marino Estate, instead now going straight up Philisburgh Avenue instead. This is a very old estate, with a great deal of elderly people, but it seems DB have no problem with now making these people walk further to get to their bus stop in return for a faster service.

    Your point about the 123 is incorrect. The bus still serves the estate (Croydon Gardens, Marino Park, Brian Road) inbound. The only reason the outbound buses can't serve the estate is because of the parking problems causing buses to get stuck. This decision was made long before Network Direct came about.

    If you want to blame someone for this, then it should be Dublin City Council who don't put in proper bus priority, not Dublin Bus who were finding it difficult to operate the service to those elderly people you mention.

    To be fair to Dublin Bus, they have removed very little service from these type of estates during Network Direct. Many areas of Crumlin, Drimnagh, Ballyfermot, Beaumont and similar still have a bus service penetrating the area.


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  • #522
    Johnny86
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 508 ✭✭✭Johnny86


    @lxflyer If you currently look at the areas between Airport to Santry South there is hardly any residential lands in that area so really no point in providing a stop there at the moment....provide the stops if the land gets developed in the future.


  • #523
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,633 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Johnny86 wrote: »
    @lxflyer If you currently look at the areas between Airport to Santry South there is hardly any residential lands in that area so really no point in providing a stop there at the moment....provide the stops if the land gets developed in the future.

    I'd advise that you get a bus out there and assess the loadings.

    There are numerous business parks and hotels and at the moment Collinstown and Turnapin stops are only potential "future stops".

    At least one bus stop in the section between the airport and Santry North is one of the busiest stops on the corridor, and it ain't even a potential future stop.


  • #524
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I'd advise that you get a bus out there and assess the loadings.

    There are numerous business parks and hotels and at the moment Collinstown and Turnapin stops are only potential "future stops".

    At least one bus stop in the section between the airport and Santry North is one of the busiest stops on the corridor, and it ain't even a potential future stop.

    But you do realize that these are proposed stops with indicative locations, ie to me that means that nothing is written in stone , it is a general overview of what it could look like but nothing is actually decided so there could be more stops or maybe less, but in the FAQ it says 500 to 800 meters between stops.

    I really can't understand how you claim to be waiting for the engineers reports before giving your verdict on this but are jumping all over proposed stops indicative locations as if the builders were already on site.

    Personally I think BRT is a waste of money but if we are going to do it then I would prefer we did it as best we can, for me that means no bendibuses but if we must have bendibuses then no bicycles in the same lane it is too dangerous.
    No matter what bus you choose the only way you can make it really work to a higher standard than QBC is by limiting what is allowed into the BRT lane and what is allowed in should not be stopping and starting.

    The biggest problem the NTA is going to have is getting the gardai to buy in, they have afaics zero interest in public transport whether that is anti social behavior on it or simply keeping it moving. However ask them to dress up like american footballers and descend en masse on Leinster house and they are great. Or ask them to ride motorbikes far too fast while ordering road users off the road to make way for some nobody and they are like a teenage boy that just discovered pornography.


  • #525
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,633 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cdebru wrote: »
    But you do realize that these are proposed stops with indicative locations, ie to me that means that nothing is written in stone , it is a general overview of what it could look like but nothing is actually decided so there could be more stops or maybe less, but in the FAQ it says 500 to 800 meters between stops.

    I really can't understand how you claim to be waiting for the engineers reports before giving your verdict on this but are jumping all over proposed stops indicative locations as if the builders were already on site.

    Personally I think BRT is a waste of money but if we are going to do it then I would prefer we did it as best we can, for me that means no bendibuses but if we must have bendibuses then no bicycles in the same lane it is too dangerous.
    No matter what bus you choose the only way you can make it really work to a higher standard than QBC is by limiting what is allowed into the BRT lane and what is allowed in should not be stopping and starting.

    The biggest problem the NTA is going to have is getting the gardai to buy in, they have afaics zero interest in public transport whether that is anti social behavior on it or simply keeping it moving. However ask them to dress up like american footballers and descend en masse on Leinster house and they are great. Or ask them to ride motorbikes far too fast while ordering road users off the road to make way for some nobody and they are like a teenage boy that just discovered pornography.

    I'm not giving a final verdict - I'm expressing an opinion on their suggested stop locations, which is what part of what this consultation is about.

    It is indicative of what their thinking is - it's the only indication that we have of what their thinking is - and it strikes me as extraordinary that in doing their initial assessment, that several of the busiest locations on the corridor don't have stops and that does kind of worry me.


  • #526
    Johnny86
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 508 ✭✭✭Johnny86


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I'd advise that you get a bus out there and assess the loadings.

    There are numerous business parks and hotels and at the moment Collinstown and Turnapin stops are only potential "future stops".

    At least one bus stop in the section between the airport and Santry North is one of the busiest stops on the corridor, and it ain't even a potential future stop.

    Sorry, I thought it was Swords South, not Santry South you had said.


  • #527
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    cdebru wrote: »
    .
    The biggest problem the NTA is going to have is getting the gardai to buy in, they have afaics zero interest in public transport whether that is anti social behavior on it or simply keeping it moving. However ask them to dress up like american footballers and descend en masse on Leinster house and they are great. Or ask them to ride motorbikes far too fast while ordering road users off the road to make way for some nobody and they are like a teenage boy that just discovered pornography.

    I can see where cdebru is coming from here.

    The recent "Tienanmen Square" style incident in Westmoreland St apparently involved a disgruntled individual standing in front of a bus for :eek: 20 minutes:eek: before Gardai arrived.....

    Mind you,the "Diplomatic Protection" stuff does tend to see sections of the Gardai embark on some parallell universe in which this little Republic has suddenly become a POlice State of immense proportions.....in reality they just end up looking kinda pathetic,as the rest of know we're broke and struggling .....;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #528
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    I can see where cdebru is coming from here.

    The recent "Tienanmen Square" style incident in Westmoreland St apparently involved a disgruntled individual standing in front of a bus for :eek: 20 minutes:eek: before Gardai arrived.....

    Mind you,the "Diplomatic Protection" stuff does tend to see sections of the Gardai embark on some parallell universe in which this little Republic has suddenly become a POlice State of immense proportions.....in reality they just end up looking kinda pathetic,as the rest of know we're broke and struggling .....;)

    Yeah I seen that 20 minutes standing in front of a bus in a main thoroughfare in the Capital city, an absolute joke, but van loads of them yesterday putting on a great show for Angela, they looked like they were heading for independence square in Kiev, all dolled up with their riot protection gear.
    Last week at least 5 motorbikes 4 garda vans and 4 army 4x4s in convoy to and from court everyday, complete overkill as they forced people off the road to make way for some scumbag nobody.

    Until we have a Garda force that actually does its job not just turns out to impress the neighbours spending 650m on shiney new bus lanes is a waste of resources.

    Sorry if that seems depressing but all I see everyday is complete disinterest from the gardai the same of fences are committed by the same people in the same places everyday and nothing ever happens, because apparently it is too difficult to police.

    But then if they can't be arsed chasing up murderers and rapists expecting them to enforce traffic law is probably looking for a bit too much.


  • #529
    theKillerBite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 195 ✭✭theKillerBite


    Why isn't there a BRT proposal to replace Metro West??

    https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/53.2854433,-6.3655923/53.3931219,-6.3961547/53.4244536,-6.2341082/53.3490204,-6.2516227/@53.3974899,-6.287071,13z/data=!4m26!4m25!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-6.4067756!2d53.331434!3s0x48677315f1dd21a3:0xc38fd5c91edd8583!3m4!1m2!1d-6.4051884!2d53.3492668!3s0x486772df64ae9641:0x87be8d7123eea774!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d-6.3475838!2d53.4137915!3s0x4867128d10e37e61:0xd93ecc4432dd3e29!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d-6.2305288!2d53.346918!3s0x48670eee2b25b953:0x822c00aa5f4e10f2!1m0!3e0


  • #530
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Why isn't there a BRT proposal to replace Metro West??
    Why wont an major international airport with 30 million passengers (I reckon its 4/5 years away) that is 6 miles away from the city centre (i.e. very close by international standards) have a rail link?

    The money can be borrowed over decades and financed with very low interest loans, a project of that scale would stimulate the economy, take people off the dole and have loads of others benefits, it would open up land for high density development, increase property values (thus increasing property tax take). Is the estimated 3 billion just to design and build or also for the operation for a certain period?


  • #531
    theKillerBite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 195 ✭✭theKillerBite


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Why wont an major international airport with 30 million passengers (I reckon its 4/5 years away) that is 6 miles away from the city centre (i.e. very close by international standards) have a rail link?

    Because it already has a underground motorway conecting it directly to the city centre and a rail link would cost €3 billion...


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  • #532
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    The money can be borrowed over decades and financed with very low interest loans, a project of that scale would stimulate the economy, take people off the dole and have loads of others benefits, it would open up land for high density development, increase property values (thus increasing property tax take). Is the estimated 3 billion just to design and build or also for the operation for a certain period?


  • #533
    Copyerselveson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭Copyerselveson


    I think I may have found one potential source of the BRT proposals for Dublin.

    Have a look at the link below from a chap called Aris Venetikidis who back in 2011 championed BRT for Dublin:
    Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) is public transport mode most suited to Dublin’s low density and unique setup. These vehicles offer a variety of degrees of quality and technology.

    and...
    By upgrading the Bus Rapid Transit Corridors and ensuring priority or even exclusive road use, these buses can achieve speeds and service delivery similar to that of the Luas.



    Incidentally, there is a manufacturer of international acclaim close-by: Wright Bus (Ballymena, Northern Ireland). The construction of this system would have a smaller ecological impact, be more cost effective and make much more use of local expertise.

    The website has a picture of a Wrights Bus BRT vehicle. In other words, "look at the shiny bus!"

    Source:http://www.venetikidis.com/ArisV/BusRapidTransit.html

    Venetikidis is quite disparaging of Metro North:
    The key to generating a successful public transport system is connection and integration with other transport modes, something that none of the existing public transport modes don’t do well. Add to that the threat of adding another disparate element, if the Metro North proposal were to succeed.

    Source:http://www.venetikidis.com/ArisV/DraftingARapidNetwork.html

    My own concern is that if the NTA are listening to this sort of propaganda the likelihood of BRT being an actual replacement for Metro North rather than a stopgap then we may end up with the nice shiny Wrights Bus vehicles on bus lanes.

    If bus lanes are the future of Dublin's public transport then a nice shiny Wrights bendy bus won't solve any existing problems unless we get traffic enforcement on parking and taxis and bicycles out of the bus lanes.

    Bicycles deserve separated cycle paths along major routes, but I fear we will end up with a compromised mess if the BRT has to share bus lanes.


  • #534
    handlemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    whats the latest on this ? Has anything been more than outlined ?


  • #535
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,633 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Give them a chance....

    When the first round of consultations was taking place, they said it would be Autumn before they came back with more detailed plans for a second round of consultations.


  • #536
    handlemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Give them a chance....

    When the first round of consultations was taking place, they said it would be Autumn before they came back with more detailed plans for a second round of consultations.[/QUOTE


    I forgot probably ten years of talking


  • #537
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,633 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    handlemaster wrote: »
    lxflyer wrote: »
    Give them a chance....

    When the first round of consultations was taking place, they said it would be Autumn before they came back with more detailed plans for a second round of consultations.


    I forgot probably ten years of talking



    I don't think that's fair - the initial BRT plans were only launched in the Spring after publishing a study into the potential for BRT in October 2012.


    They have however now published a summary of the initial consultation.
    http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Swiftway_Public_Consultation_Report_-_June_2014.pdf


  • #538
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,483 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Copyerselveson wrote: »
    The website has a picture of a Wrights Bus BRT vehicle. In other words, "look at the shiny bus!"

    Which when you see them first in the cold light of day (leaving a nightclub at 6am in Leeds), look absolutely ridiculous. Noddy tram is all that comes to mind.


  • #539
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    As an aside, Jason O'Mahony has a sharp piece today about Why We Can't Have Nice Things. For those of us who remember the Luas Wars, this sounds familiar.

    http://jasonomahony.ie/an-occasional-guide-to-irish-politics-the-naysayers/#sthash.L3BMmVOR.uxfs


  • #540
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    As an aside, Jason O'Mahony has a sharp piece today about Why We Can't Have Nice Things. For those of us who remember the Luas Wars, this sounds familiar.

    http://jasonomahony.ie/an-occasional-guide-to-irish-politics-the-naysayers/#sthash.L3BMmVOR.uxfs

    "ramblings" is a fairly accurate description of that waffle


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  • #541
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think he is talking about the B and I hydofoil link from Dublin to Liverpool that failed. Or is it the ski-lift project? Or perhaps the bendy-buses that used to wend their way around Lincon Place and into Westland Row when the traffic would let them? Or perhaps the Bertie Bowl? Or even the National Childrens' Hospital on the site of the Mater Jame's hospital?

    No, it was the Corrib gas field project. Or was it something else entirely?


This discussion has been closed.
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