Definitive boundaries: land reg. map/OSI/actual lines on the ground?

FamousBelgian · 22-07-2013 05:10AM #1

I think this topic comes up in many different guises but I haven't yet seen if there is a clear answer to this:

what are the legally binding boundaries of a property if the lines on the Land Registry map differ from the OSI map which in turn differs from the actual lines on the ground?

If the de facto boundaries (hedges, walls, ditches, etc.) are uncontested and accepted (no rights of way exercised, etc.) for a long time (20+ years) then can the Land Registry maps simply be updated to match the lines on the ground.

I'm thinking that when you come to sell a house and one of the boundaries on the map is, say, 3 meters further into the next property than it is on the ground that this could be a problem. Does anyone know how this works in practice?

thanks in advance,

Poor Uncle Tom · 22-07-2013 07:41AM

Discrepancies like you mention are usually dealt with on a case by case basis and will normally have to have consent from all affected parties involved.

There are hundreds of thousands of these issues out there, which have been compounded recently by the digitisation of the Land Registry Maps.

One issue you mention, if there is a discrepancy between the boundary as shown on an OSI map and what is actually on the ground, you can get the OSI to correct this mistake easily enough. However OSI Map boundaries are not reflective of ownership, they should just show what was surveyed on the ground.

FamousBelgian · 22-07-2013 09:17AM

Thanks for the quick reply. I figured it would probably be like everything else in property matters with no simple solution. I guess I'd need to consult all the parties and get explicit agreement on the boundaries and then that would form an appendix or something to the relevant deeds. There are three properties involved, all developed in 1960-1975 and a further two from the 2000's which are probably correctly marked everywhere.

I went to the Land Registry site and they don't sound encouraging:
The Land Registry map is an index map and identifies property, not boundaries. Therefore, we are not in a position to advise.

If this is the case then the definition of the boundaries is just the maps attached to the deed documents themselves which have never been checked against each other? If a neighbour won't co-operate then what? And if you try to sell I guess you can't walk away from something like this.
Or if the Land Registry does not identify boundaries then surely the de facto accepted-by-default boundary should be definitive?
In this case I believe the deeds match, more or less, the Land Registry map on one boundary and the affected neighbour could say I'm selling a claim on a strip of their property.

I've been reading a bit more about this and I'll just have to do some more research myself as I don't know a title from a deed from whatever. It would be great if someone who knows what's involved can give a quick layman's summary. Or do I just need to go to a solicitor in any case? I just want to have done all my due diligence in advance of any possible sale years down the road.

Supertech · 22-07-2013 06:54PM

There are essentially no hard and fast rules, as every case will be slightly different. There are ongoing problems with Property Registration Authority mapping for the past number of years, due mainly , as Poor Uncle Tom has said, to the digitisation and overlaying of Land Registry mapping on current OSi data.

In short, first step is to take some measurements (or have someone take them) on site from a well defined boundary (preferably a townland boundary if you can) as shown on the map. You could go for all the bells and whistles and have the boundaries of your site surveyed with GPS and dropped onto the Land Reg map based on the coordinates shown in the corners, but that is likely to be more expensive. This may however be necessary at some stage.

Once you have an idea of the measurements of the site versus the measurements of the map you can decide how to proceed. If you discover that there's a problem, and that problem is clear, well then you need to either approach Land Registry to have them rectify it, or approach your neighbour and try to agree the boundary line. The latter is not, as you've probably guessed, always as straighforward as you might hope, and can sometimes lead to protracted disputes. The majority of these issues are caused by the digital errors referred to previously. The problem is that there is no clearly defined method for revising them, and this can lead to delays and in some cases 'opportunistic' neighbours holding out for a settlement.

First port of call should be an engineer or surveyor or other suitably qualified professional.

FamousBelgian · 22-07-2013 10:38PM

Thanks for the answers. It's a bit clearer to me now. I had this idea that somehow the boundaries on the Land Registry maps were semi-sacred and that the reality should follow that. Clearly I had that wrong. @Supertech's idea makes perfect sense to me: start with a surveyor and make your own proper maps.

kgirish · 04-03-2014 09:51AM

how long does it take before hedges become the de facto boundary on ones property or its there any set rule on this ??

Supertech · 04-03-2014 10:41AM

kgirish wrote: »

how long does it take before hedges become the de facto boundary on ones property or its there any set rule on this ??

There's no set rule. If there's just a hedge then generally the root line of the hedge will be assumed to be the physical boundary, but if there's something that contradicts this then the assumption counts for nothing. I've just been involved in a case where a mature hedge was proven to be in the wrong place and was removed and relocated by several metres. The advice at all times is that when you buy a piece of ground, you should immediately establish the boundary and fence it accordingly, generally with the agreement of the neighbouring owners, and document this accordingly. In theory, your folio map should reflect this, but since digitisation this often has not been the case.

You may be alluding to establishing ownership by 'adverse possession' which is difficult to establish. There is a requirement then to prove uncontested occupation of the piece of ground for 12 years (in most cases). A long process, and best to be avoided if you can.

kgirish · 04-03-2014 11:10AM

thanks supertech,. the residents committee in my estate(of which I am member) have recently taken over from the mgmt. company and they called to say the hedges need to be moved.i felt was particularly petty as its only a small common area which my house is astride to and the entrance road.i only put them up 14 yrs ago for security as people were just walking accross the garden as its the entrance to the estate and a detached house.removing them will be difficult due to the length of time there in :mad:they claim they can move them but charge me for the privalage.

Supertech · 04-03-2014 11:26AM

Why do they want the hedge removed ?

Offer to put up a fence in the correct position. Best of both worlds. The area of open space is maintained, the hedge is maintained and no one (in theory) is any worse off.

If your property is bounded by an area of public open space, it should have been adequately screened and secured in the first place anyway, normally with a screen wall, or more recently with some kind of timber fence. Check the original planning application and the attached conditions and see what they say about boundary treatments there. 14 years is a long time ! In this case I wouldn't give up too easily. If they remove your boundary, what are they going to put in instead ?

kgirish · 04-03-2014 11:45AM

they claim the area is common land for all the residents to use.in the contracts (I was the second buyer) it was open plan area and that's what I bought into but the lack of privacy being the entrance house to the cul de sac forced me to put up the laurels.id say its about 10ft from the path from my house to the entrance road,they say I can move the laurels myself back to the boundry of the path the edges my house.

hexosan · 04-03-2014 11:56AM

How far do they allege your hedge encroaches onto the common land.

kgirish · 04-03-2014 12:47PM

its about 7/8ft from the path that surrounds my house to the other path in between they claim is the common area.

kgirish · 04-03-2014 02:17PM

in addition if anyone can help me with building an extention on the boundry wall not party wall ie its not the dividing wall between my neighbour its on the opposite side where I have no neighbour onl a small common green area ? builder advises me this is ok .

Definitive boundaries: land reg. map/OSI/actual lines on the ground?

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