Swiftway - Bus Rapid Transit (BRT)

Dyr · 12-02-2014 02:33PM

cdebru wrote: »

If you are doing BRT properly that's exactly what you would be doing.

if you fancy having a very small tail wagging a very large dog then it might be a good idea

Sam Russell · 12-02-2014 04:22PM

bk wrote: »

Come on that is laughable. Not a problem in the 100's of other cities that use BRT.

Given that this is a whole new project being set up by the NTA, all doors will be used 100% of the time. DB won't be able to interfere with this.

This is the whole point of this project and the point you can't seem to admit, that this isn't just a few bendy buses, this is a whole BRT project, with all the required infrastructure and polices to make it work correctly.

These buses will have at least three if not four doors and all doors will be used 100% of the time at all stops.

I said more space for mobility impaired people. That isn't just wheelchair users, but for instance older people who can't make it up and down the stairs. Bendy buses have a lot more seats for these people.

DB used single decker buses extensively, for instance on the 123 route for many years.

I think this whole project is an oportunity to engage more 'consultants' in an exercise to provide them with employment. It is a publicity exercise to show that something is being done from which nothing will result. Metro North makes more sense. The design has been done and could be started rather than waste money on a pointless exercise in what could be. Why not try and do a ski-lift scheme to bring people from the Dublin mountains into town? Or perhaps, river taxis (oh wait, they tried that) - well lets see if we can think of any more crackpot novel schemes.

We have a lot of existing railway lines around Dublin that should be pressed into service. We have a line from Connolly to Maynooth that needs to be electrified for Dart use. The line to Kildare should also be electrified for Dart use, probably as far as Cellbridge. A Dart extension from Clongriffin to the airport makes sense to me, but of course, it would effect other favourite projects if it were successful.

However, a decent plan for BRT would look nice on the shelf beside the other shelved projects (Navan Rail, WRC extension, Dart Underground, Metro North, etc, etc). Remeber the hydrofoil that B+I got so that there was rapid travel from Dublin City Centre to Liverpool? Yea.

By the way, DB never used single decker buses extensively. They never amounted to a significant proportion of their fleet.

TheBandicoot · 12-02-2014 04:32PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

We have a lot of existing railway lines around Dublin that should be pressed into service. We have a line from Connolly to Maynooth that needs to be electrified for Dart use. The line to Kildare should also be electrified for Dart use, probably as far as Cellbridge. A Dart extension from Clongriffin to the airport makes sense to me, but of course, it would effect other favourite projects if it were successful.

Sure, can't do any of them, because the NTA does not want to work with CIE. Much better to build competing and conflicting systems that duplicate existing CIE routes. Not much has changed from the 19th century shenanigans of the railway companies.

Sam Russell · 12-02-2014 05:42PM

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Not much has changed from the 19th century shenanigans of the railway companies.

Well at least they built tracks and ran trains and trams until they ripped up most of them in the fifties and sixties. Dublin had a fantastic tram system at one time.

Spanish Eyes · 13-02-2014 12:36AM

This might be a daft comment, and someone will put me right...

But is there any particular reason the Old Cabra Road is a vital artery for the
Blanchardstown line?

Could it not go down the Cabra Road and the NCR, and join with other modes at Connolly, somehow get across the East Link and join up with the Stillorgan Road, and voila! UCD...

I know daft.

cgcsb · 13-02-2014 01:00AM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

This might be a daft comment, and someone will put me right...

But is there any particular reason the Old Cabra Road is a vital artery for the
Blanchardstown line?

Could it not go down the Cabra Road and the NCR, and join with other modes at Connolly, somehow get across the East Link and join up with the Stillorgan Road, and voila! UCD...

I know daft.

Phibsboro is a bottleneck already.

Godge · 13-02-2014 11:32AM

cgcsb wrote: »

Phibsboro is a bottleneck already.

So is Stoneybatter.

Godge · 13-02-2014 11:33AM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think this whole project is an oportunity to engage more 'consultants' in an exercise to provide them with employment. It is a publicity exercise to show that something is being done from which nothing will result. Metro North makes more sense. The design has been done and could be started rather than waste money on a pointless exercise in what could be. Why not try and do a ski-lift scheme to bring people from the Dublin mountains into town? Or perhaps, river taxis (oh wait, they tried that) - well lets see if we can think of any more crackpot novel schemes.

We have a lot of existing railway lines around Dublin that should be pressed into service. We have a line from Connolly to Maynooth that needs to be electrified for Dart use. The line to Kildare should also be electrified for Dart use, probably as far as Cellbridge. A Dart extension from Clongriffin to the airport makes sense to me, but of course, it would effect other favourite projects if it were successful.

However, a decent plan for BRT would look nice on the shelf beside the other shelved projects (Navan Rail, WRC extension, Dart Underground, Metro North, etc, etc). Remeber the hydrofoil that B+I got so that there was rapid travel from Dublin City Centre to Liverpool? Yea.

By the way, DB never used single decker buses extensively. They never amounted to a significant proportion of their fleet.

Excellent post, but don't expect those ideas to get support either in the NTA or on here where in both cases drawing new coloured lines on maps is much more fun (and to be fair, they are right, it is more fun) rather than going with the sensible options of leveraging existing infrastructure.

cdebru · 13-02-2014 11:55AM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think this whole project is an oportunity to engage more 'consultants' in an exercise to provide them with employment. It is a publicity exercise to show that something is being done from which nothing will result. Metro North makes more sense. The design has been done and could be started rather than waste money on a pointless exercise in what could be. Why not try and do a ski-lift scheme to bring people from the Dublin mountains into town? Or perhaps, river taxis (oh wait, they tried that) - well lets see if we can think of any more crackpot novel schemes.

We have a lot of existing railway lines around Dublin that should be pressed into service. We have a line from Connolly to Maynooth that needs to be electrified for Dart use. The line to Kildare should also be electrified for Dart use, probably as far as Cellbridge. A Dart extension from Clongriffin to the airport makes sense to me, but of course, it would effect other favourite projects if it were successful.

However, a decent plan for BRT would look nice on the shelf beside the other shelved projects (Navan Rail, WRC extension, Dart Underground, Metro North, etc, etc). Remeber the hydrofoil that B+I got so that there was rapid travel from Dublin City Centre to Liverpool? Yea.

By the way, DB never used single decker buses extensively. They never amounted to a significant proportion of their fleet.

You are correct as far as I can see, this is NOT BRT this is QBC 2, it will fall flat on its face under the current proposals, the exact problems the QBCs face will just be replicated. It is not a segregated busway so the buses will have to contend with taxis, bicycles, deliveries, parked cars etc etc, making the use of bendybuses completely unviable.

In order for public transport to work you actually need, local authorities who want it to work and are not more concerned about losing lucrative car parking spaces, you also need a Police force that is committed to enforcing parking regulations and bus lane regulations, neither of these exist in this city. Hence every morning you see all over the city traffic moving in and blocking the bus lane because they want to queue to turn left in some 600 or 700 metres plus ahead.

Renaming QBCs as BRT and sticking bendybuses on them is pointless.

TheBandicoot · 13-02-2014 12:00PM

Godge wrote: »

So is Stoneybatter.

Agreed, but there is a bottleneck whatever way you go between the city centre and D15. That's why you build dedicated infrastructure like high quality BRT, rail lines, tram lines, etc.

monument · 13-02-2014 03:26PM

Again I feel a bit off defending BRT with out knowing the detail but there's two much extreme naysaying and some just plain wrong ideas...

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think this whole project is an oportunity to engage more 'consultants' in an exercise to provide them with employment. It is a publicity exercise to show that something is being done from which nothing will result. Metro North makes more sense. The design has been done and could be started rather than waste money on a pointless exercise in what could be.

Right now it looks like Metro North is unlikely to be built anytime in the next 10-20 years or maybe more. Getting annoyed with BRT because there's little political will to build Metro is a bit pointless.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why not try and do a ski-lift scheme to bring people from the Dublin mountains into town? Or perhaps, river taxis (oh wait, they tried that) - well lets see if we can think of any more crackpot novel schemes.

A river river taxi worked fine between the north and south Docklands while we were waiting for the last bridge to be built.

The proposed ski-lift-type thing along the river was privately planned.

BRT is not crackpot or novel.

Sam Russell wrote: »

We have a lot of existing railway lines around Dublin that should be pressed into service. We have a line from Connolly to Maynooth that needs to be electrified for Dart use. The line to Kildare should also be electrified for Dart use, probably as far as Cellbridge. A Dart extension from Clongriffin to the airport makes sense to me, but of course, it would effect other favourite projects if it were successful.

The wider Dart Underground project will look after most of that or allow it to be built in the future.

TheBandicoot wrote: »

However, a decent plan for BRT would look nice on the shelf beside the other shelved projects (Navan Rail, WRC extension, Dart Underground, Metro North, etc, etc)

Navan Rail was daftness when the motorway was being planned/built along side it.

There is no WRC extension planned and it was never confirmed.

Dart Underground is likely to proceed sooner than later, while Metro a lot less so -- both however are victims of the downturn.

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Sure, can't do any of them, because the NTA does not want to work with CIE. Much better to build competing and conflicting systems that duplicate existing CIE routes. Not much has changed from the 19th century shenanigans of the railway companies.

NTA says that, to start with, BRT is to be run by Dublin Bus.

DB route contracts running out anyway, and routes to be reconfigured around BRT.

Godge wrote: »

Excellent post, but don't expect those ideas to get support either in the NTA or on here where in both cases drawing new coloured lines on maps is much more fun (and to be fair, they are right, it is more fun) rather than going with the sensible options of leveraging existing infrastructure.

Err... leveraging existing infrastructure applies to roads as well as rail!

And leveraging existing infrastructure is exactly the plan with the planned BRT.

cdebru wrote: »

You are correct as far as I can see, this is NOT BRT this is QBC 2, it will fall flat on its face under the current proposals, the exact problems the QBCs face will just be replicated.

As posted already, the current proposals include:

Traffic light priority
Bus lanes up to junctions
Continuous bus lanes
Ticketing at stops
Less stops
Buses level with kerbs at stop
Pulling up to kerbs won't be an issue
Multi-door boarding
No driver interaction
A higher degree of separation from cyclists overall, including everywhere where it's posable
Overtaking room where normal bus stops are on BRT route bus lanes (but BRT buses may block normal buses)
Reworking of streets/road layouts to make the above posable as much as possible

Even if this turns out to be just QBC Mark II and not centre-of-road running like it should be, there still lots of the problems of the current QBCs solved or largely fixed.

cdebru wrote: »

It is not a segregated busway so the buses will have to contend with taxis, bicycles, deliveries, parked cars etc etc, making the use of bendybuses completely unviable.

Err bendybuses were not "completely unviable" before and works to improve stop access and stops will alone make them more viable.

cdebru wrote: »

In order for public transport to work you actually need, local authorities who want it to work and are not more concerned about losing lucrative car parking spaces, you also need a Police force that is committed to enforcing parking regulations and bus lane regulations, neither of these exist in this city. Hence every morning you see all over the city traffic moving in and blocking the bus lane because they want to queue to turn left in some 600 or 700 metres plus ahead.

Bus lane enforcement cameras on buses work wonders. All you need is a minister to want it.

cdebru wrote: »

Renaming QBCs as BRT and sticking bendybuses on them is pointless.

Sure, but that's not what is planned. It's far more than renaming.

LXFlyer · 13-02-2014 04:07PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think this whole project is an oportunity to engage more 'consultants' in an exercise to provide them with employment. It is a publicity exercise to show that something is being done from which nothing will result. Metro North makes more sense. The design has been done and could be started rather than waste money on a pointless exercise in what could be. Why not try and do a ski-lift scheme to bring people from the Dublin mountains into town? Or perhaps, river taxis (oh wait, they tried that) - well lets see if we can think of any more crackpot novel schemes.

We have a lot of existing railway lines around Dublin that should be pressed into service. We have a line from Connolly to Maynooth that needs to be electrified for Dart use. The line to Kildare should also be electrified for Dart use, probably as far as Cellbridge. A Dart extension from Clongriffin to the airport makes sense to me, but of course, it would effect other favourite projects if it were successful.

However, a decent plan for BRT would look nice on the shelf beside the other shelved projects (Navan Rail, WRC extension, Dart Underground, Metro North, etc, etc). Remeber the hydrofoil that B+I got so that there was rapid travel from Dublin City Centre to Liverpool? Yea.

By the way, DB never used single decker buses extensively. They never amounted to a significant proportion of their fleet.

This is actually not correct, and I think you ought to really check your facts before making statements such as this.

Typically there would have been around 100 single decks in the Dublin Bus fleet (over 10%), operating 20-25 routes.

In the 1980s and 1990s the Bombardier KC Class arrived, and there were 120 single decks operating in Dublin.

During the late 1990s/early 2000s, there were at least 275 single decks and mini-buses in the Dublin Bus fleet, which would equate to around 25% of the fleet.

It has only been in recent years that the fleet switched to almost completely double-deck operation.

Sam Russell · 13-02-2014 04:25PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Something like this might be OK.

I pointed to these in a previous post but no-one appears to have noticed.

If BRT was based on this type of vehicle, then I would think it might work. These are not bendy-buses like the ones that opeated on the 10 and 4 routes. Those were a bus and trailer arrangement with the motor in the trailer, giving a most unpleasant ride, as the back power gave a bounce to the erratic progression and a nuanced wiff of burnt diesel and a deafening roar when under strain.

These Dutch vehicles in the picture are more like a tram, with four pairs of wheels with multiple steering. They also can be driven in semi-automatic mode where braking and steering can be automated. The steering relies upon markers or beacons burried in the road every 5 metres. If they were powered by overhead wires, they would be much closer to a tram.

However, this BRT proposal is out just in time for the local elections, and the cynic in me notes the constituancies involved with it.

AlekSmart · 13-02-2014 04:50PM

cdebru wrote: »

In order for public transport to work you actually need, local authorities who want it to work and are not more concerned about losing lucrative car parking spaces, you also need a Police force that is committed to enforcing parking regulations and bus lane regulations, neither of these exist in this city. Hence every morning you see all over the city traffic moving in and blocking the bus lane because they want to queue to turn left in some 600 or 700 metres plus ahead.

Renaming QBCs as BRT and sticking bendybuses on them is pointless.

Whilst I would love to embrace Monument's enthusiasm for this plan,I am far too familiar with Dublin City's Administrative REALITY as described above.

Every day,in every way,I am faced with having to compromise both Safety and Operational Efficiency in order to comply with Dublin's absolute pre-requisite to favour Private Transport over Public.

It is the never ending supply of small,to some minds even inconsequential,issues which Dublin City Council,in particular,deliberately place in the way of Public Transport.

For example,Hume Street.....now a major Bus Artery (albeit temporary) to St Stephens Green....only a true jinnet would argue that failing to reconfigure the street to cope with a zillion% increase in Bus Traffic was necessary....easiest option Remove ALL private Car parking for the duration and allow the full width of the street to be used for Traffic Flow....preferred option....keep as much On Street Car Parking functional in the face of whatever difficulties this causes..and BOY does it cause difficultlies,particularly when Loreto on the Green is in session....Schools in particular appear to represent some Magic Wonderland wherein ALL Traffic Rules & Regulations can be disregarded with impunity....But I digress..because as cdebru states above,Dublin City Council and an Garda Siochana are NOT committed to enforcing the regulations to facilitate Bus Services (and their users)...they ARE however,fully behind the facilitation of maintaining Private Motoring access as fully as possible to areas/zones where the remainder of Europe would have had Public Transport reigning supreme.

Godge · 13-02-2014 06:54PM

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Agreed, but there is a bottleneck whatever way you go between the city centre and D15. That's why you build dedicated infrastructure like high quality BRT, rail lines, tram lines, etc.

The way to solve it is to electrify the Maynooth line.

Pointless putting in BRT parallel to that line and the Broombridge to City Centre Luas.

Unnecessary duplication of public transport.

Spanish Eyes · 13-02-2014 07:30PM

Godge wrote: »

The way to solve it is to electrify the Maynooth line.

Pointless putting in BRT parallel to that line and the Broombridge to City Centre Luas.

Unnecessary duplication of public transport.

No matter what solution is put in place, I personally will never benefit. But that's not the point.

I agree with you. There is duplication. And even if the current modes are not up to scratch, they could be with a bit of investment. And the Luas will be good, as we know already.

But I'm probably talking out my you know what at this stage.

The one thing I DO know, as others have said, unless the BRT gets total priority, as in dedicated TOTAL bus lanes, streets cut off for anything but bus, and so on, I'm afraid I am a total sceptic.

And as another has said also, the locals are on the way, and Vlad is a Minister in the Blanchardstwn area. Hmmm..

Sam Russell · 13-02-2014 08:15PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

And as another has said also, the locals are on the way, and Vlad is a Minister in the Blanchardstwn area. Hmmm..

And who is TD in Swords area? Oh, yea, the bearded one.

cgcsb · 13-02-2014 08:18PM

I think for Blanch, the money would be better invested in electrification of Maynooth line, higher frequency of service and an actual feeder bus system to connect the sprawl into the DART service. However the other routes can be very beneficial provided we have centre of the road running, complete separation and all the trimmings.

end of the road · 13-02-2014 10:34PM

bk wrote: »

DB used single decker buses extensively, for instance on the 123 route for many years.

only on a couple of routes though i think (unless you include the IMP busses which i believe weren't dublin bus?)

cdebru · 13-02-2014 11:02PM

end of the road wrote: »

only on a couple of routes though i think (unless you include the IMP busses which i believe weren't dublin bus?)

The imps were Dublin Bus, lxflyer is correct single deckers were a significant part of the fleet through the 80s and 90s from the 120 KCs to the 135 ADs and Ps never mind the imps and the midi buses that replaced them it is only in recent years that DB moved to all Double deckers.

monument · 14-02-2014 01:25AM

Sam Russell wrote: »

I pointed to these in a previous post but no-one appears to have noticed.

Coming directly after others giving out about bendybuses not being suited to Dublin's streets it looked like a joke.

Sam Russell wrote: »

However, this BRT proposal is out just in time for the local elections, and the cynic in me notes the constituancies involved with it.

Plans for BRT have been progressing steadily since 2011 when it was mentioned in the NTA 2030 report. If it's politically motivated timing, it's mastermind level!

AlekSmart wrote: »

Whilst I would love to embrace Monument's enthusiasm for this plan,I am far too familiar with Dublin City's Administrative REALITY as described above.

I'd say enthusiasm is going too far, I'm on the fence until I see if we're going to get real BRT or at least value for money -- but I'm fed up of opinions based half facts or misconceptions... we got it with Luas, with DublinBikes, with QBCs, with the planning stages of Metro North and Dart Underground, with pedestrianisation, etc

At least your cynicism seems to be based on current experience and not half facts or misconceptions.

Godge wrote: »

The way to solve it is to electrify the Maynooth line.

Pointless putting in BRT parallel to that line and the Broombridge to City Centre Luas.

Unnecessary duplication of public transport.

Firstly: The Luas catchment area crossover is in highly and densely populated areas and their routes are to/from different places, so it's not worth talking about it.

Bus priority has been slowing progressing and will be needed at these pinch points sooner or later regardless of Dart on the Maynooth line. Electrifying the Maynooth line is part of Dart Underground. That project is already back on the political agenda along side BRT.

As for unnecessary duplication -- there's clearly some heavy overlap between Dart but the heaviest section is the small section along the Navin Road where there's not too much of anything. However where the routes are somewhat parallel:

the distances between the lines is mostly at least over 500m
and often more than 1km away
BRT offers more stops (more than twice as many along between D15 and the city centre)
BRT offers trips that Dart can't (example: to from the Blanch centre, direct to UCD etc)

Think about it in these terms: The current Dart line along the coast packs people in at rush hour and so do the parallel bus routes. The surface routes between the city centre and D15 are congested are their use needs to be optimised if the city centre has any chance of growing.

Some duplication is the norm.

cgcsb wrote: »

I think for Blanch, the money would be better invested in electrification of Maynooth line, higher frequency of service and an actual feeder bus system to connect the sprawl into the DART service.

Feeder buses on the narrow and congested roads to most D15 stations? Or all buses heading to the Navan Road Parkway station where the bus is half way to the city?

The NTA have put out an estimate of €150m to €200m for a route between UCD and Blanch before the route forks out to Beechfield and Castlewood.

Dart Underground is needed for decent use of the electrification of Maynooth line, and you'd end up spending a good chunk of €200m on building wider roads to make the the feeder buses work and that's before we look at ongoing costs of such feeder services for distances most people could be cycling to stations.

end of the road · 14-02-2014 12:57PM

cdebru wrote: »

The imps were Dublin Bus

sorry yes your correct, my mistake

cdebru wrote: »

single deckers were a significant part of the fleet through the 80s and 90s from the 120 KCs to the 135 ADs and Ps never mind the imps and the midi buses that replaced them it is only in recent years that DB moved to all Double deckers.

ah right, just from my experience apart from the imps and the single decks on the 123 route i mostly traveled on double deckers

Filibuster · 15-02-2014 02:20AM

Electrify the Maynooth line and extend the line to the Blanchardstown Centre as was originally planned in the 1975 CIE plan. The centre can then serve as the local hub for onward local bus traffic as needed.

Whatever happened to the Navan Road QBC plan? Is it still on the drawing board or has it been scrapped?

markpb · 15-02-2014 09:19AM

Filibuster wrote: »

Electrify the Maynooth line and extend the line to the Blanchardstown Centre as was originally planned in the 1975 CIE plan.

I don't know if you've been to Blanchardstown since 1975 but it's changed a little. Getting a train line from the Maynooth line to anywhere near it would require extensive CPO of houses and offices not to mention road closures.

The entire area suffers from terrible road congestion making it a(n already) poor choice for bus hub. The land is already heavily developed (albeit mostly for single deck car parks) leaving limited room to add bus priority measures.

Edit: that's before you mention that electrification alone isn't enough, you also need to resignal the line and and increase the number of slots through the city centre, probably by building DU.

AlekSmart · 15-02-2014 11:18AM

markpb wrote: »

I don't know if you've been to Blanchardstown since 1975 but it's changed a little. Getting a train line from the Maynooth line to anywhere near it would require extensive CPO of houses and offices not to mention road closures.

The entire area suffers from terrible road congestion making it a(n already) poor choice for bus hub. The land is already heavily developed (albeit mostly for single deck car parks) leaving limited room to add bus priority measures.

Edit: that's before you mention that electrification alone isn't enough, you also need to resignal the line and and increase the number of slots through the city centre, probably by building DU.

This is quite the central issue markpb.

The original CIE Plan of 1975,had it been progressed with might just have allowed the entire area's Transport (Public & Private) to develop in a sustainable and managed manner.
The lack of will and foresight,coupled with significant levels of dubious planning decisions meant that Blanchardstown and environs became what it is today...largely unmanageable without MAJOR reworking.

Whilst it remains quite de rigeur to demean CIE and all it stands for,the facts are that at many points in it's recent history it was pushing the boundaries of Irish Public Transport planning and provision.

However,no matter what plan or proposal was agreed upon by it's board,the all important final decision ALWAYS rested with the Government/Minister of the day.

As an example,and rather timely too with the death of artist/architect Patrick Scott,CIE's Donnybrook Garage,designed by Micheal Scott, completed in 1952 and destined to be the first of 8,built in modular form throughout the country. The oak moulds into which the roof concrete was poured were to be transported by road to the other sites,with Waterford the next in line....Sadly Irish politics intervened and not alone was the entire project abandoned,BUT on the direct instructions of a Senior Civil Servant the Oak Moulds were cut up and destroyed to prevent any future administration resurrecting the plan...

THAT mind-set,more than anything else remains the greatest barrier to progress in Irish Public Transport,and to paraphrase another Politician..."It has'nt gone away,y'know" :mad:

monument · 15-02-2014 11:28AM

markpb wrote: »

I don't know if you've been to Blanchardstown since 1975 but it's changed a little. Getting a train line from the Maynooth line to anywhere near it would require extensive CPO of houses and offices not to mention road closures.

The entire area suffers from terrible road congestion making it a(n already) poor choice for bus hub. The land is already heavily developed (albeit mostly for single deck car parks) leaving limited room to add bus priority measures.

Edit: that's before you mention that electrification alone isn't enough, you also need to resignal the line and and increase the number of slots through the city centre, probably by building DU.

With Dart Underground, a branch to the Blanchardstown is posable using the reserved alignment (originally for Dart and more recently set a side for Metro West).

All you'd need is to go over or under road junctions and realign the road where needed. Likely zero CPOs or building to be knocked.

See screenshot attached showing the start of the branch could go.

Banjoxed · 15-02-2014 11:49AM

AlekSmart wrote: »

This is quite the central issue markpb.

The original CIE Plan of 1975,had it been progressed with might just have allowed the entire area's Transport (Public & Private) to develop in a sustainable and managed manner.
The lack of will and foresight,coupled with significant levels of dubious planning decisions meant that Blanchardstown and environs became what it is today...largely unmanageable without MAJOR reworking.

Whilst it remains quite de rigeur to demean CIE and all it stands for,the facts are that at many points in it's recent history it was pushing the boundaries of Irish Public Transport planning and provision.

However,no matter what plan or proposal was agreed upon by it's board,the all important final decision ALWAYS rested with the Government/Minister of the day.

As an example,and rather timely too with the death of artist/architect Patrick Scott,CIE's Donnybrook Garage,designed by Micheal Scott, completed in 1952 and destined to be the first of 8,built in modular form throughout the country. The oak moulds into which the roof concrete was poured were to be transported by road to the other sites,with Waterford the next in line....Sadly Irish politics intervened and not alone was the entire project abandoned,BUT on the direct instructions of a Senior Civil Servant the Oak Moulds were cut up and destroyed to prevent any future administration resurrecting the plan...

THAT mind-set,more than anything else remains the greatest barrier to progress in Irish Public Transport,and to paraphrase another Politician..."It has'nt gone away,y'know" :mad:

Good God. Cutting up and destroying molds. Vingince be Jasus indeed.

Sam Russell · 15-02-2014 12:39PM

Talking about senseless decisions, does anyone know why the Luas was only extended to Druids Glen, 1.5 km short of a connection to the Dart at Loughlinstown?

markpb · 15-02-2014 02:10PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Talking about senseless decisions, does anyone know why the Luas was only extended to Druids Glen, 1.5 km short of a connection to the Dart at Loughlinstown?

At a guess, the developer who was paying part of the construction costs didn't own any property in Loughlinstown?

Sam Russell · 15-02-2014 02:37PM

markpb wrote: »

At a guess, the developer who was paying part of the construction costs didn't own any property in Loughlinstown?

I would think so as well, but it still makes no sense. A lack of joined up thinking. It would have provided the missing link from the green line to the Dart. It could not have cost much extra and would provide a good link upto Sandyford and Dundrum.

Swiftway - Bus Rapid Transit (BRT)

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