The D4 Media/ Posh Boys and Irish Rugby – Spoon feeding the masses

Inner City Hedgehog · 13-02-2014 02:22AM

Rugby simply isn't a very skilful game compared to other sports. It's largely a contest of who can push the hardest. Put any big 18-25 year old who has never played the game into a team and with a bit of gym work they'll be good at it within a short space of time. Who knows, they might even make the international team like John Hayes who never played rugby until he was 18.

That would never happen in soccer, hurling or basketball.

Then you have all the bull**** surrounding it, the marketing campaigns, the soft focus media coverage of it (which horse racing and golf also get), the fact that it's the sport of choice for people who don't like sport.

It just doesn't matter to people in the same way that soccer and GAA do. When Ireland lose a World Cup or European Championship match in soccer, or your county loses a championship match in GAA there's always a feeling of real disappointment. Rugby rarely if ever evokes that kind of feeling in people.

jimboblep · 13-02-2014 02:25AM

Inner City Hedgehog wrote: »

Rugby simply isn't a very skilful game compared to other sports. It's largely a contest of who can push the hardest. Put any big 18-25 year old who has never played the game into a team and with a bit of gym work they'll be good at it within a short space of time. Who knows, they might even make the international team like John Hayes who never played rugby until he was 18.

That would never happen in soccer, hurling or basketball.

Then you have all the bull**** surrounding it, the marketing campaigns, the soft focus media coverage of it (which horse racing and golf also get), the fact that it's the sport of choice for people who don't like sport.

It just doesn't matter to people in the same way that soccer and GAA do. When Ireland lose a World Cup or European Championship match in soccer, or your county loses a championship match in GAA there's always a feeling of real disappointment. Rugby rarely if ever evokes that kind of feeling in people.

You really have not got a clue say what you like back i wont respond but that post is stupidity of the highest order

Nelson Muntz · 13-02-2014 02:26AM

Inner City Hedgehog wrote: »

Rugby simply isn't a very skilful game compared to other sports. It's largely a contest of who can push the hardest. Put any big 18-25 year old who has never played the game into a team and with a bit of gym work they'll be good at it within a short space of time. Who knows, they might even make the international team like John Hayes who never played rugby until he was 18.

You clearly know nothing about Rugby.

The GAA sports are both very skillful also but my 2 year old can kick a round ball & get it to roll across flat ground, the core skill of Soccer.

The Pheasant2 · 13-02-2014 02:31AM

Inner City Hedgehog wrote: »

It just doesn't matter to people in the same way that soccer and GAA do. When Ireland lose a World Cup or European Championship match in soccer, or your county loses a championship match in GAA there's always a feeling of real disappointment. Rugby rarely if ever evokes that kind of feeling in people.

Speak for yourself mate.

The Lost Sheep · 13-02-2014 02:38AM

Inner City Hedgehog wrote: »

Rugby simply isn't a very skilful game compared to other sports. It's largely a contest of who can push the hardest. Put any big 18-25 year old who has never played the game into a team and with a bit of gym work they'll be good at it within a short space of time. Who knows, they might even make the international team like John Hayes who never played rugby until he was 18.

That would never happen in soccer, hurling or basketball.

Then you have all the bull**** surrounding it, the marketing campaigns, the soft focus media coverage of it (which horse racing and golf also get), the fact that it's the sport of choice for people who don't like sport.

It just doesn't matter to people in the same way that soccer and GAA do. When Ireland lose a World Cup or European Championship match in soccer, or your county loses a championship match in GAA there's always a feeling of real disappointment. Rugby rarely if ever evokes that kind of feeling in people.

Not true.
With appropriate training(and a lot of it) a person with the physical attributes can pick up the sport relatively late and do quite well but generally that is players who are considerably above average height/weight and have quite a decent skillset as well.
When John Hayes started playing rugby the sport was completely amateur. He virtually straight away was in a club that was one of the strongest in the country and given a huge amount of training, specialised training and succeeded. Vast majority neither had/have his talent nor will get the attention he received and don't
Rugby you cant play to the top level until you are 18 years of age do physical constraints of the sport same cannot be said for Hurling/Gaelic/Soccer where you can play at the very top at 17/18 and its much more likely that people do especially in Soccer.
There is no way you can say it doesn't matter the same way soccer/hurling/gaelic football do. For large proportion of people it does.
For huge number of people the loss to NZ at end last year evoked feelings of massive disappointment. Provincial losses finals etc again same feelings evoked just like for many people who get the same disappointment after All Ireland final losses etc
Marketing does play a huge role. 6Nations dominates airwaves at time when not a huge amount of other big big sporting events are on(at the start at least).

ardle1 · 13-02-2014 02:44AM

mariano rivera wrote: »

(OK Mods, this a societal question more than a rugby question)

Why do the Irish Rugby team get so much publicity and the publicity they get is nearly always hugely positive?

The fact of the matter is hardly anybody plays the game, especially adults. A few pockets in Cork, Limerick, South Dublin and Protestant areas in the north. Most counties would have the ODD junior team. Compare that to the huge number of GAA teams and junior soccer teams

Most goys I know who will we watching the England game have NEVER played the game. As I would guess most people who attend the Ireland games would be the same.

Ryan Tubridy drools at the mouth whenever he interviews the goys
Brendan O’Connor telling is again what a great performance by the Irish rugby team
Hugely positive reports about our brave Irish team in print, radio & TV (Conor O’Shea I am looking at you)

Yet, the facts are:

Ireland are ranked 6th in the world. Recently up from 7th. There are really only 10 decent rugby teams in the world as such. (Any rugger bugger would tell you that)

Irelands so called Golden generation have won ONE 6 nations Championship in 30 years!

Golden Generation?

Yet Jonny, Jamie and all the goys are world class, outstanding, brave, phenomenal, fantastic performance etc.

Really?

The coverage after the LOST to New Zealand was cringe worthy . A game they LOST

Personally, I think the D4 Posh boys give the sport and team way too much positive publicity when frankly they don’t deserve it

It’s just because they are part of the same snobby/ Old School tie Club. They are all mates, you see

And we as a nation (most of whom have never picked up a rugby ball) are sucking it all up

It's the media, Yeah the D4 media! it's only a fcukin game, some off the interviews are cringe worthy, you'd swear!! eh well you'd swear the GOYS just took part in the Paralympics!<<now these Guys deserve respect and the nations admiration.

risteard7 · 13-02-2014 02:45AM

I like watching rugby and love when the six nations comes around, but in fairness to the op he is right. I don't think it's fair the attention and adoration the rugby team gets compared to the soccer team.

Sometimes people sneer at the Irish soccer team but they are competing In a world sport where every country takes it serious. It really is a sport that has about 10 good teams. They must be sick of playing the same few teams year in year out.

Inner City Hedgehog · 13-02-2014 02:47AM

Nelson Muntz wrote: »

You clearly know nothing about Rugby.

The GAA sports are both very skillful also but my 2 year old can kick a round ball & get it to roll across flat ground, the core skill of Soccer.

Name a player in a top soccer league who took up the game at 18.

You won't be able to - it doesn't happen, as the skills needed to compete at any kind of decent level in soccer are far more difficult and take years longer to master than those needed to compete at a decent level in rugby.

The Pheasant2 · 13-02-2014 02:49AM

Inner City Hedgehog wrote: »

Name a player in a top soccer league who took up the game at 18.

You won't be able to - it doesn't happen, as the skills needed to compete at any kind of decent level in soccer are far more difficult and take years longer to master than those needed to compete at a decent level in rugby.

Do the same for a current top level rugby player please

SPS1 · 13-02-2014 02:53AM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Not true.
With appropriate training(and a lot of it) a person with the physical attributes can pick up the sport relatively late and do quite well but generally that is players who are considerably above average height/weight and have quite a decent skillset as well.

When John Hayes started playing rugby the sport was completely amateur. He virtually straight away was in a club that was one of the strongest in the country and given a huge amount of training, specialised training and succeeded. Vast majority neither had/have his talent nor will get the attention he received and don't

I always thought of it as

* Football, easy to pick up, very difficult to get good skill at
* Rugby, not easy to pick up, less overall skill required than football
* Hurling, near impossible to pick up, impossible to get skillful at.

risteard7 · 13-02-2014 02:56AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I do agree with you that the hype can get a bit grating at times with the likes of Thornley and 'Fester':rolleyes: going into overdrive. You see Irish fans getting offended then when foreign journalists don't rate them in the same light. I remember in 2010 they played Scotland in CP in the last game of the 6 nations, they'd blown the championship but a Triple Crown was still on, all week long the media spoke as if it was already achieved, Scotland were totally written off and dismissed. I remember Dan Parks speaking of how the Irish arrogance fueled their preparations that week and they duly went on and won.

A bit more humility and cop on is required at times, someone like Thornley should know better as he was covering the sport in the 90s when we were considered the whipping boys of Europe.

"whipping boys of Europe" you can narrow that down to 3 British teams, France and Italy. Hardly Europe?

sorry take Italy out it was five teams in the 90s! What about the other 45 countries in Europe? They couldn't be arsed.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-02-2014 03:14AM

This has become a bit of a Rugby v soccer/gaa debate.

The Soccer international team have been rubbish for past 2 years. Real rubbish, no problem admitting that.

However what about our real heros in Sport. Look at our boxers. They are our best sporting success in this country for past 6 years now delivering in Olympic, European and World Stage.

We have a World Champion in Walking in Corkman Rob Heffernan.

These guys train 10 times harder then any rugby player.

You look at our swimmers. Those guys be in the Pool at 6am 6-7 days a week busting a gut just to get to major competition while some rugby players be staggering home from night in Coppers.

Our Rugby team is nothing compared to our Boxers. Should not be even mentioned on the same page.

We have had success in Golf, we have had stage winners in Tour De France and other major cycling events. All deserve more credit then rugby but sadly they dont.

Strongbow10 · 13-02-2014 03:14AM

Have great respect for the die hards who follow their teams (be it Leinster, Connacht, Munster etc...) great outlet and its always great to see money spent in the local community yada yada yada

however, when you strip away all the casuals/event junkies/social climbers looking to talk to their boss about something he likes/chicks applying their make up during a conversion in the 80th minute to win the game in the hope of bringing a rugger bugger back to meet Daddy, how many hardcore true fans are there?

The marketing of rugby is actually genius and other sports in Ireland need to take a look at it. Coverage is disproportionate. And the masses have well and trully lapped it up. As previous posters have pointed out their love for the game and this is 100% to be respected and admired, they also need to understand that there is a large percentage who simply have no idea of what the hell is going on on a rugby pitch.

In my own professional life i've encountered numerous bosses (none of whom have the slightest interest in sport in general at all) who love rugby. I would keep abreast of all of the rugby news etc.. would watch irish games and have no allegiances to any of the provinces. Often these bosses (more than I can even remember) would love to regale impressionable employees with their Rugby stories and impress them with their knowledge.

I decided one day to engage one of the bosses in a little debate about how Argentina's game had developed (this was the world cup in 07 I think), and the guy literally had no clue they even had a national team and was almost despondent that i'd shone a light on his charade.

I've met countless "Leinster fans" (apologies to real Leinster fans) who have never before shown any degree of interest in any type of sport. One mate of mine made a statement which I thought was quite harsh- "Rugby is the sport for people who don't like Sport". A moronic statement I thought.

Like Soccer in this country, Rugby has a very small hardcore element, lads and girls who were watching Cork Constitution or Buccaneers in the AIL before it was glamourous, were cheering for Simon Geoghegan when he went over the line at Twickenham before it was glamourous to be cheering for it. if the hardcore make up a minority then the majority (like the soccer in the good times) are made up by the event junkies who in fairness probably enjoy watching something they deem high quality and competitive and most importantly fashionable.

Rugby is indeed an elitist sport that has been highjacked by the casuals who will no doubt jump on the next train that departs for a buzz of some other sort.

On a side note i'll make a comparison with Golf. Gets an insanely disproportionate amount of coverage for a very niche game played close to exlusively by middle classes. And despite participating numbers being relatively low compared to other sports, it never struggles for a large financial institution to sponsor it.

Inner City Hedgehog · 13-02-2014 03:25AM

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Do the same for a current top level rugby player please

Already mentioned John Hayes. Loads of Irish international players never played until they entered secondary school. Those who also played Gaelic football can adapt almost immediately and be very good at rugby.

Again, starting at 13 in soccer or hurling means you're already too far behind to ever make it at at a decent level because the skills are more specialised and harder to master.

Rugby has far less of a pool of players internationally than soccer so players who take up the game in their teens and make it to senior international level aren't uncommon.

Brendog · 13-02-2014 03:29AM

Its very easy to generalise a sport as being "Posh" based on the players who play it.

In that regard I guess we can call soccer a "Posh" sport considering the amount of money the players make, the mansions they live in and the private schools their children go to.

Heroditas · 13-02-2014 03:32AM

Bambi wrote: »

Which schools? I'm from ballymun horse, you dont see many kids around here throwing oval balls around

Trinity Comp.
There's also Minis rugby up in Balcurris Park at weekends when the weather is good.
Tag blitzes have also been held between the junior schools in the area.

The Pheasant2 · 13-02-2014 03:32AM

Inner City Hedgehog wrote: »

Already mentioned John Hayes. Loads of Irish international players never played until they entered secondary school. Those who also played Gaelic football can adapt almost immediately and be very good at rugby.

Again, starting at 13 in soccer or hurling means you're already too far behind to ever make it at at a decent level because the skills are more specialised and harder to master.

Rugby has far less of a pool of players internationally than soccer so players who take up the game in their teens and make it to senior international level aren't uncommon.

Yeah you mentioned John Hayes and I asked for a current top level rugby player - I mean it's clearly so easy to take up rugby at 18 and succeed at it simply by virtue of being big that there must be a ton of players you could name for me?

Eutow · 13-02-2014 03:33AM

Inner City Hedgehog wrote: »

It just doesn't matter to people in the same way that soccer and GAA do. When Ireland lose a World Cup or European Championship match in soccer, or your county loses a championship match in GAA there's always a feeling of real disappointment. Rugby rarely if ever evokes that kind of feeling in people.

Well, I don't give a **** about GAA, so no real disappointment from me if Dublin lose. The reason?... I don't follow GAA. The same logic will more than likely apply if you talk to somebody that doesn't like association football, rugby etc. So, to say that people feel more disappointment if a football team or GAA team lose compared to rugby is stupid, but there has been a lot of stupid talk in this thread.

I'm not a rugby fan as such, more a football fan - another protestant game - but I watch the odd Ireland game, so it is nice to see Ireland actually do well in a sport that has an international presence.

Strongbow10 · 13-02-2014 03:37AM

Eutow wrote: »

Well, I don't give a **** about GAA, so no real disappointment from me if Dublin lose. The reason?... I don't follow GAA. The same logic will more than likely apply if you talk to somebody that doesn't like association football, rugby etc. So, to say that people feel more disappointment if a football team or GAA team lose compared to rugby is stupid, but there has been a lot of stupid talk in this thread.

I'm not a rugby fan as such, more a football fan - another protestant game - but I watch the odd Ireland game, so it is nice to see Ireland actually do well in a sport that has an international presence.

not sniping though, but in an international sense define "doing well?"

You also have the debate about the provinces having an advantage of sorts. Just an opinion of course and no doubt i'll be told its rubbish by someone who knows alot more about it than I do.

Would St Marys be competitive? Would Garryowen be competitive at European level?

On the flipside, how would London Irish, Wasps and Saracens fare should the London clubs amalgamate for the purposes of European competition?

errlloyd · 13-02-2014 03:43AM

Does rugby receive disproportionate coverage? According to the Rte figures from last year more people watched the Ireland v England 6n game than the Ireland v Austria key world cup qualifier. So there is obviously a market. I'd doubt RTE and Tg4 cover as many rugby games a year as GAA events, which is probably fair. And every September I've to deal with GAA hype.

Rugby is probably the only professional team sport in Ireland. While the national team is only 6th in the world or whatever we are still able to beat teams as good as high as second reasonably regularly. (Aus in the last world cup for example). But most importantly our club teams are kicking ass. They're 1st, 2nd and 3rd in our league, which includes the best teams from Scotland, Wales and Italy. They've all made the quarters in Europe.

The h/cup is the champions league of rugby and we're the best in Europe at it (and let me remind you, that isn't shown on Rte so you don't have to deal with it). Jonny Sexton, our player, is the second highest paid player in the world. We have huge amounts of players who are taking 20 percent pay cuts to play here in Ireland for the fans, because the hype and the support they get here makes staying at home worth it.

Our academies are producing the finest talent in Europe right now. Martin Moore has to be bumped off his academy contract a year early because he was been offered record breaking contracts in France.

Our national team is 6th because we under perform.

Finally how can rugby possibly be considered a Protestant Sport. Get real. Almost all of the players are Catholic. Even in Leinster the schools that are good are, Blackrock (Catholic), Marys (Catholic), Michaels (Catholic), terenure (Catholic), Belvedere (Jesuit, catholic) and Clongowes (Jesuit, Catholic).

The only Protestant schools are Andrews and Wesley... Who have produced maybe two fringe internationals in the last 10 years. (Miller and Jones)

Eutow · 13-02-2014 03:54AM

Strongbow10 wrote: »

not sniping though, but in an international sense define "doing well?"

You also have the debate about the provinces having an advantage of sorts. Just an opinion of course and no doubt i'll be told its rubbish by someone who knows alot more about it than I do.

Would St Marys be competitive? Would Garryowen be competitive at European level?

On the flipside, how would London Irish, Wasps and Saracens fare should the London clubs amalgamate for the purposes of European competition?

As I said, I don't follow rugby that much so I wouldn't know all the rules and the competitions outside the Six Nations and the World Cup. The provinces have done well in the Heineken Cup with Leinster winning it three times, Munster winning it twice and Ulster winning it once.

As far as internationally is concerned, if you compare us to England, we are able to compete with them and have beaten them on several occasions. This against a country that would have a far bigger selection of players to choose from.

We were a minute away from defeating New Zealand at the end of last year, admittedly we have never beaten them before. Ireland doesn't have the best record against the big three in the southern hemisphere, but Ireland is slowly improving and have a better chance of actually winning a World cup than the Irish football team.

stretchdoe · 13-02-2014 04:28AM

errlloyd wrote: »

Does rugby receive disproportionate coverage? According to the Rte figures from last year more people watched the Ireland v England 6n game than the Ireland v Austria key world cup qualifier. So there is obviously a market. I'd doubt RTE and Tg4 cover as many rugby games a year as GAA events, which is probably fair. And every September I've to deal with GAA hype.

Rugby is probably the only professional team sport in Ireland. While the national team is only 6th in the world or whatever we are still able to beat teams as good as high as second reasonably regularly. (Aus in the last world cup for example). But most importantly our club teams are kicking ass. They're 1st, 2nd and 3rd in our league, which includes the best teams from Scotland, Wales and Italy. They've all made the quarters in Europe.

The h/cup is the champions league of rugby and we're the best in Europe at it (and let me remind you, that isn't shown on Rte so you don't have to deal with it). Jonny Sexton, our player, is the second highest paid player in the world. We have huge amounts of players who are taking 20 percent pay cuts to play here in Ireland for the fans, because the hype and the support they get here makes staying at home worth it.

Our academies are producing the finest talent in Europe right now. Martin Moore has to be bumped off his academy contract a year early because he was been offered record breaking contracts in France.

Our national team is 6th because we under perform.

Finally how can rugby possibly be considered a Protestant Sport. Get real. Almost all of the players are Catholic. Even in Leinster the schools that are good are, Blackrock (Catholic), Marys (Catholic), Michaels (Catholic), terenure (Catholic), Belvedere (Jesuit, catholic) and Clongowes (Jesuit, Catholic).

The only Protestant schools are Andrews and Wesley... Who have produced maybe two fringe internationals in the last 10 years. (Miller and Jones)

It's certainly noteworthy and admirable what has been done by Rugby and the coaches working at grassroots in this country bu it also has to be pointed out that it's relatively easy to be moderately successful in a sport that has little relevance in europe, let alone worldwide and for 'academies' to be producing 'some of the finest talent in Europe' when the vast majority of countries in Europe are completely unaware that Rugby even exists and the sports participation and interest levels are dropping off a cliff in the four countries it was once relevant in.

errlloyd · 13-02-2014 04:32AM

stretchdoe wrote: »

It's kinda easy to be moderately successful in a sport that has little relevance in europe, let alone worldwide and for 'academies' to be producing 'some of the finest talent in Europe' when the vast majority of countries in Europe are completely unaware that Rugby even exists and the sports participation and interest levels are dropping off a cliff in the four countries it was once relevant in.

Pretty sure rugby attendances and viewership are rising universally. You also greatly misunderstand the rugby club game. The French top 14 is like the EPL was after sky came in. It's rich. While there might only be ten international teams in the world you can be sure the best talent in the club game is all concentrated in France. Competing with that is impressive.

stretchdoe · 13-02-2014 04:46AM

errlloyd wrote: »

Pretty sure rugby attendances and viewership are rising universally. You also greatly misunderstand the rugby club game. The French top 14 is like the EPL was after sky came in. It's rich. While there might only be ten international teams in the world you can be sure the best talent in the club game is all concentrated in France. Competing with that is impressive.

Not disputing the work done by Irish Rugby and not trying to diminish its achievements.

And i enjoy watching the Irish rugby team and wish them well.

Just think it has to be put in context in terms of its success internationally in comparison to the challenges and competition faced by those in this country who wish to get to the top in truly worldwide sports

Again, that's not to try and diminish Irish rugby players

I'm a follower of many sports and Brian O'Driscoll would be right near the top of anyone i've seen play any sport in terms of his skill, toughness, dedication, application of his abilities etc.

crybaby · 13-02-2014 06:16AM

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I agree o.p, cant stand rugby, always was and always will be a protestant to me, a elitist sport followed by mostly west Brit types.

as someone who comes from a protestant family, the fact you even attempt to use the word "protestant" as something to be looked down upon in 2014 is fairly astonishing

Sad to see people looking down on such a great sport when they should feel pride for their national team.

crybaby · 13-02-2014 07:14AM

It just doesn't matter to people in the same way that soccer and GAA do. When Ireland lose a World Cup or European Championship match in soccer, or your county loses a championship match in GAA there's always a feeling of real disappointment. Rugby rarely if ever evokes that kind of feeling in people.

Tt doesn't matter to you but jesus I was heart broken when we lost to New Zealand last year as were many other Irish people yet when Dublin won the All-Ireland it made me smile and then I didn't think anything of it again. Are you really trying to claim the grandslam win didn't evoke elation in a lot of Irish people?

People like different things, interesting to see the hatred directed towards rgby as it starts to steal some of the limelight from GAA

Mint Aero · 13-02-2014 08:30AM

Beats the cringey crap out of the GAA heads anyday...

"Oh it's the passion of the parish Nigel"

"I'm so passion for GAA Tarquin"

"Not as passion as I'am Nigel"

"I got raging passion now Tarquin"

Etc

Balmed Out · 13-02-2014 09:24AM

crybaby wrote: »

interesting to see the hatred directed towards rgby as it starts to steal some of the limelight from GAA

I don't think that's fair at all, Rugby having an elitist reputation isn't the fault of any other sports its the fault of a minority of its fans who shush people in pubs watching matches, act like encyclopedias of the game but don't know the rules, behave arrogantly to waitresses/bar staff etc while watching it in pubs etc.

Chips Lovell · 13-02-2014 09:30AM

Balmed Out wrote: »

...minority of its fans who shush people in pubs watching matches, act like encyclopedias of the game but don't know the rules, behave arrogantly to waitresses/bar staff etc while watching it in pubs etc.

Don't think that's confined to rugby in fairness. Have seen the same sort of behaviour from people watching other sports.

Teyla Emmagan · 13-02-2014 09:32AM

Protestants!!! Dear lord!!

The D4 Media/ Posh Boys and Irish Rugby – Spoon feeding the masses

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