Garda Ombudsman offices bugged

Boombastic wrote: »

Attempting to and/or Perverting the course of justice is more serious than listening to Mary and Molly talking about shopping

The entire country being spied upon, pretty much every single person in it - ombudsman and Gardaí communications included - as well as lawyer/client communications - is less serious than one instance of an office being bugged?

KyussBishop wrote: »

The entire country being spied upon, pretty much every single person in it - ombudsman and Gardaí communications included - as well as lawyer/client communications - is less serious than one instance of an office being bugged?

It wasn't just any office though was it? Tbh I don't care if the gardai are spying on me every day ( I'm sure they have better things to be doing, but maybe not ). How many bombs thwarted by intelligence and other terriost attacks in recent months? I rather be listened to than blown up. The government are fcking us over in worse ways.


I'm also not suprised that the gardai weren't called in, sure they couldn't figure out who was stealing all the money from the evidence locker in the gardai station and I wouldn't think they are capable of orgainising a piss up in a brewery.

KyussBishop wrote: »

Just a thought that popped into my head: It's amazing how much people care about this, the ombudsman being bugged - and in comparison, how little anyone gives a toss about the NSA and GCHQ, who are spying on pretty much each and every one of us, still to this day.

Not really, despite all of the NSA and GCHQ revelations (even spying on the Germans/French/EU), there are no claims whatsoever they actually use their mass intelligence to affect normal peoples' lives, much less destroy them. They undoubtedly use their information for political, economic and above all security reasons. Mine or yours emails, internet activity and telecommunications data *may* be in the hands of the NSA/GCHQ, but no real human being has or will ever come across it unless we are suspected of criminality or terrorism. The amount of terror attacks foiled in London, Paris, Munich, New York, Washington, etc. bears testament to the fact mass surveillance works, to that extent at least. I don't like it anymore than you do, but it doesn't affect my life at all personally speaking and in fact makes me feel a bit safer on air flights or when travelling abroad.

Most importantly regarding the Edward Snowden leaks, what's the alternative? No ones come up with one, just criticism.

EireGun wrote: »

Not really, despite all of the NSA and GCHQ revelations (even spying on the Germans/French/EU), there are no claims whatsoever they actually use their mass intelligence to destroy innocent peoples' lives. They undoubtedly use their information for political, economic and above all security reasons. Mine or yours emails, internet activity and telecommunications data *may* be in the hands of the NSA/GCHQ, but no real human being has or will come across it unless we are suspected of criminality or terrorism. The amount of terror attacks foiled in London, Paris, Munich, New York, Washington, etc. bears testament to the fact mass surveillance works. I don't like it anymore than you do, but it doesn't affect my life at all personally speaking and in fact makes me feel a bit safer on air flights or when travelling abroad.

Well, they do actually - they routinely use the NSA's capabilities to drop bombs on innocent people, as revealed by Glenn Greenwald today:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/02/10/the-nsas-secret-role/

Our emails and Internet/mobile communications most defintely are in the hands of the NSA/GCHQ - absolutely no doubt about it anymore.

You are happy to completely eliminate your privacy, out of fear of 'terrorists', who these days largely exist because they are pissed off with the US bombing innocent civilians in their countries?

Destroying our civil liberties, pretty much means the terrorists have won - and our own governments get given the tools to erode/destroy democracy over time.

EDIT:

EireGun wrote:

Most importantly regarding the Edward Snowden leaks, what's the alternative? No ones come up with one, just criticism.

Eh, how about not letting us all be spied upon, so that we can keep our privacy and civil liberties intact - and keeping any spying that needs to be done, under the jurisdiction of courts, that require warrants for starters!

KyussBishop wrote: »

The NSA/GCHQ are above reproach, and are spying on all of us though, right? Our police force is also able to use the legal 'out', of receiving intel from GCHQ/NSA about our own citizens, because they aren't directly spying on us - that presents many of the same problems, but on an enormous scale.

To be fair after all that is leaked and known about that..you'd want to be quite a dim terrorist to be emailing around your ideas...still for all its spying realistically unless you use certain flash words or phrases...your not likely to be seen by hhuman eyes..it is too vast s set up to spend its time looking at emails of dancing cats and other ****e people be emailing....the main issue is I didn't think anyone in Ireland had capacity to put in place what is being suggested us after happening
I do look forward to what should be if it's what it looks like on the surface...unavoidable political fallout...esp from a government that should have sleeowalked to the next election..as there is no realistic alternative

KyussBishop wrote: »

Well, they do actually - they routinely use the NSA's capabilities to drop bombs on innocent people, as revealed by Glenn Greenwald today:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/02/10/the-nsas-secret-role/

Our emails and Internet/mobile communications most defintely are in the hands of the NSA/GCHQ - absolutely no doubt about it anymore.

You are happy to completely eliminate your privacy, out of fear of 'terrorists', who these days largely exist because they are pissed off with the US bombing innocent civilians in their countries?

Destroying our civil liberties, pretty much means the terrorists have won - and our own governments get given the tools to erode/destroy democracy over time.

So you are basically telling me that the NSA and GCHQ destroy random peoples lives in the US and UK (and Ireland???) for absolutely no reason whatsoever?

The people that work for the NSA and GCHQ (I know a few people who work for the latter, Irish and English) are HUMANS. Not robots. Not terminator-like secret agents with special powers. They are techies, normal people with a usually boring job who just have to be a little more sensitive with their own personal security.

Terrorism from Muslim extremists is still a big threat to European and America cities, including Ireland to a medium extent. My phone call conversations don't interest the NSA or GCHQ and neither do yours, and if you think that you clearly have an inflated sense of self-importance. The eavesdropping carried out by these agencies are on targeted individuals with links to criminals and terrorists - bad guys. Simple.

Boombastic wrote: »

Terrorists are largely pissed off with the Us bombing innocent citizens?...em, have you told our homegrown terrorists that is their aim?

As far as terrorists pissed off with the US are concerned, yes. What terrorists in Ireland are a threat to the population of the republic, as opposed to the north?

EireGun wrote: »

So you are basically telling me that the NSA and GCHQ destroy random peoples lives in the US and UK (and Ireland???) for absolutely no reason whatsoever?

The people that work for the NSA and GCHQ (I know a few people who work for the latter, Irish and English) are HUMANS. Not robots. Not terminator-like secret agents with special powers. They are techies, normal people with a usually boring job who just have to be a little more sensitive with their own personal security.

Terrorism from Muslim extremists is still a big threat to European and America cities, including Ireland to a medium extent. My phone call conversations don't interest the NSA or GCHQ and neither do yours, and if you think that you clearly have an inflated sense of self-importance. The eavesdropping carried out by these agencies are on targeted individuals with links to criminals and terrorists - bad guys. Simple.

Who gives a **** if they are human? They participate in aiding the murder of innocent people.

Are Muslims and the innocent people NSA/GCHQ participate in killing, any less human? Does the right/wrong of what they do, depend upon the geographical borders they commit those wrongs?


The threat from muslim extremists is massively overblown: The biggest terrorist threat we have now from any set of muslims, are the terrorists created by the US bombing the shít out of their countries, killing people in their communities and families - which actually motivates them to retaliate, where they previous had no inclination to violence.

If the contents of all our communications weren't of interest to the NSA/GCHQ, they wouldn't be collecting them.
They can target literally anyone they like from the gathered information - with no due process, no warrant, no legal accountability - nothing; if the ombudsman bugs are a threat to whistleblowers and Gardai informants, the NSA/GCHQ spying is the same threat, on a much bigger scale.


When has the NSA spying ever helped solve a crime in Ireland? Show me some proof of that - proof the the NSA spying aiding legal enforcement, not legal spying that is actually under the jurisdiction of courts.


Why the fúck would any Muslim try to attack people in Ireland?

Seriously authoritarian mindset from many posters here - willing to submit to any abuse of their rights, out of pure irrational fear of 'terrorists' - who are far less a danger to us, than a state with the ability to spy on an industrial scale, on the actions of every person in the country.

Busted Flat. wrote: »

There is difference between a country spying on its people for security reasons
most countries do that sort of thing. But to spy on an investigative outfit that is charged to oversee the compliance of our police force to conduct there duties in accordance with our laws, really is something completely different. Maybe you are not able to take that on board.

The NSA aren't spying on us for security reasons - prove that the NSA spying on our citizens, was ever used to improve our security.

They are spying on us simply because they have the technical capability of doing it - if our government spied on us like that, it would be an illegal scandal far greater than the ombudsman bugging.

This really isn't the thread for a discussion about the NSA, GCHQ or the War on Terror... It's about the spying on the Garda Ombudsman.
Can we get back on topic instead of having an anti-American ranting match... Please.