Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

K-9 · 06-02-2014 10:35PM

eorpach wrote: »

How curious that David Quinn didn't sue for being called a "woman hater" in a previous debate; he must not mind being labelled a misogynist. Bit of a double standard there.

He is about the only person that really, really annoys me when I watch him on TV. He'll use anything to back up his perception that marriage is under attack, and old Catholic Ireland is falling a part. I remember reading him having a go at single Dads using seriously flawed statistics about maintenance, from a seriously flawed Government agency that chases up maintenance for those that receive the single parent payment.

Basically called me a deadbeat Dad because he was so eager to believe that single parents are just terrible people. The stats would have made me a deadbeat dad, even though I paid decent child maintenance.

The stats were pretty useless but why let facts get in the way of a good ould rant about single parents, which because of his brain washing are an attack on marriage. You have to remember this guy would have been a leading proponent of no divorce in Ireland 20 years ago. 10's upon 10's of 1'000's of people living in misery and fear are irrelevant to this guys moral smugness and self righteousness.

Annasopra · 06-02-2014 10:37PM

No

Links234 wrote: »

You know, something I've noticed lately is that I can't seem to make a post on boards without getting loads of thanks. Like, quite seriously, it seems like I've suddenly become the voice of reason around here. This is interesting to me, because when I first started posting on AH, I found general opinion against me, and even quite hostile to a degree, especially on threads like this and similar, I felt my opinion was very unpopular.

Now, either people have started taking me a lot more seriously since I changed my avatar, and who could blame anyone for that, when you see L you think genius detective and just want to agree regardless... Or attitudes towards LGBT people have changed in the past few years, and that is really quite heartening.

That represents quite a sea change. Or a lot of Death Note fans. I'm not sure which.

I think AH is more liberal than it was a few years ago and that anti-gay views are much more in a minority on this forum than a few years ago. The poll above even says that to me.

PopePalpatine · 06-02-2014 10:37PM

No

I wonder...what was DQ actually doing during the decriminalisation of homosexuality and divorce campaigns?

Links234 · 06-02-2014 10:38PM

No

mango salsa wrote: »

I think AH is more liberal than it was a few years ago and that anti-gay views are much more in a minority on this forum than a few years ago. The poll above even says that to me.

I'm still not willing to rule out that AH folks are huge Death Note fans though.

Annasopra · 06-02-2014 10:39PM

No

Daith wrote: »

What are Iona's position about gay teachers? I'm fairly sure I know but if someone knows a quote.

http://www.ionainstitute.ie/assets/files/Section%2037%20submission.pdf

seenitall · 06-02-2014 10:40PM

No

P_1 wrote: »

He perplexes me too. I know everybody's entitled to their opinion but what possible good does giving his outright irrational viewpoint a platform do?

I've thought about this question a bit myself, and I think it's to be able to go "See, gay people even have a problem with gayness, doesn't that tell ye enough? It's not all black and white, equal or not equal, there are grey areas here and they have to be seriously discussed, we can't just be handing out civil rights here willy-nilly."

I'd like to think I'm wrong, but that's what it looks like to me. I believe that whoever is in charge in the RTE is underestimating the intellect of the Irish people, though.

P_1 · 06-02-2014 10:40PM

No

Links234 wrote: »

You know, something I've noticed lately is that I can't seem to make a post on boards without getting loads of thanks. Like, quite seriously, it seems like I've suddenly become the voice of reason around here. This is interesting to me, because when I first started posting on AH, I found general opinion against me, and even quite hostile to a degree, especially on threads like this and similar, I felt my opinion was very unpopular.

Now, either people have started taking me a lot more seriously since I changed my avatar, and who could blame anyone for that, when you see L you think genius detective and just want to agree regardless... Or attitudes towards LGBT people have changed in the past few years, and that is really quite heartening.

That represents quite a sea change. Or a lot of Death Note fans. I'm not sure which.

A bit from column A and a bit from column B I'd imagine. Plus the fact that you have about 13k of (usually) logical posts to your name probably doesn't hurt either.

Daith · 06-02-2014 10:41PM

No

This was the only thing I could think of about Paddy's "marriage is a gender issue"

Marriage is a racial issue. It's between two white people. Stop redefining marriage

Voting is a gender issue. It's man only. Stop redefining voting

Marriage is a gender issue. It's man and woman. Stop redefining marriage

eorpach · 06-02-2014 10:41PM

Daith wrote: »

What are Iona's position about gay teachers? I'm fairly sure I know but if someone knows a quote.

Does anybody REALLY care? Honest question.

darced · 06-02-2014 10:42PM

This post has been deleted.

Daith · 06-02-2014 10:43PM

No

eorpach wrote: »

Does anybody REALLY care? Honest question.

I do if they believe they are only called homophobes because they are against equal marriage.

Daith · 06-02-2014 10:43PM

No

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

And David Quinn. You see I can hate gay and straight people. Like equals!

K-9 · 06-02-2014 10:44PM

Links234 wrote: »

You know, something I've noticed lately is that I can't seem to make a post on boards without getting loads of thanks. Like, quite seriously, it seems like I've suddenly become the voice of reason around here. This is interesting to me, because when I first started posting on AH, I found general opinion against me, and even quite hostile to a degree, especially on threads like this and similar, I felt my opinion was very unpopular.

Now, either people have started taking me a lot more seriously since I changed my avatar, and who could blame anyone for that, when you see L you think genius detective and just want to agree regardless... Or attitudes towards LGBT people have changed in the past few years, and that is really quite heartening.

That represents quite a sea change. Or a lot of Death Note fans. I'm not sure which.

I'd notice changes in views even up here in socially conservative Donegal, we vote no in European referenda by default, the only county to vote no, no, no in the abortion referenda nearly 20 years ago, apparently we didn't agree with a womans right to travel and get information on abortion! Anyway!

It's still conservative but I've noticed a few people change opinions with age and experience.

Can't remember what book it was I read a while back but the idea always stuck with me, a conservative will always be a conservative until they end up in court, then they'll see how liberalism and compassion works in the real world.

The amount of people who'd be very anti single mothers and homosexuality, once it affects them personally, they don't be long changing their world views.

Annasopra · 06-02-2014 10:45PM

No

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

:pac:

AerynSun · 06-02-2014 10:49PM

No

seenitall wrote: »

I've thought about this question a bit myself, and I think it's to be able to go "See, gay people even have a problem with gayness, doesn't that tell ye enough? It's not all black and white, equal or not equal, there are grey areas here and they have to be seriously discussed, we can't just be handing out civil rights here willy-nilly."

I'd like to think I'm wrong, but that's what it looks like to me. I believe that whoever is in charge in the RTE is underestimating the intellect of the Irish people, though.

Rory should create another character, Yves Y-Front... and have your man do a routine where he "cringes on the train" at his gay friend being too gay... but seriously vamp it up and use some of the dialogue coming out of Paddy Manning's repertoire?

seenitall · 06-02-2014 10:50PM

No

K-9 wrote: »

Can't remember what book it was I read a while back but the idea always stuck with me, a conservative will always be a conservative until they end up in court, then they'll see how liberalism and compassion works in the real world.

The amount of people who'd be very anti single mothers and homosexuality, once it affects them personally, they don't be long changing their world views.

Absolutely, this is what happened with myself as well. Once my life and hopes and plans for my life went belly up, I became by degrees more tolerant and more accepting of all the other differences from the society's norm. It's either that, or wisdom comes with age, or the mixture of both.

I grew up in a religious and right-leaning household (although not in Ireland).

A conservative is a conservative as long as their life is fine and dandy. Once things go pear-shaped, those views will change too.

floggg · 06-02-2014 10:50PM

No

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Have you ever made any form of substantive contribution to a thread?

I know you're like a fly to honey when it comes to a mere mention of gay people, but never actually seen anything substantive. ever.

floggg · 06-02-2014 10:53PM

No

seenitall wrote: »

Absolutely, this is what happened with myself as well. Once my life and hopes and plans for my life went belly up, I became by degrees more tolerant and more accepting of all the other differences from the society's norm. It's either that, or wisdom comes with age, or the mixture of both.

I grew up in a religious and right-leaning household (although not in Ireland).

A conservative is a conservative as long as their life is fine and dandy. Once things go pear-shaped, those views will change too.

It remind me of Senator Rob Portman in the US.

He had a strong anti-gay voting record until his son came out, when he changed his opinion.

When asked to explain the about turn, his response was along the lines of he had never tried to look at the issue from a gay person's perspective until it affected his son.

All too often, conservatives just don't care as long as its happening to somebody else.

AnonoBoy · 06-02-2014 10:53PM

Links234 wrote: »

You know, something I've noticed lately is that I can't seem to make a post on boards without getting loads of thanks. Like, quite seriously, it seems like I've suddenly become the voice of reason around here.

Oh you would say that wouldn't you? You have no idea what you're on about. Why don't you just stay quiet? :mad:

Happy now?

vicwatson · 06-02-2014 10:54PM

No

David Quinn sitting beside Paddy Manning - LOL

Brilliant TV, well done RTE, ha.

AnonoBoy · 06-02-2014 10:54PM

floggg wrote: »

It remind me of Senator Rob Portman in the US.

He had a strong anti-gay voting record until his son came out, when he changed his opinion.

When asked to explain the about turn, his response was along the lines of he had never tried to look at the issue from a gay person's perspective until it affected his son.

All too often, conservatives just don't care as long as its happening to somebody else.

Ironically many of them have gay relatives or friends who just don't share that fact with them because of their anti-homosexual views.

darced · 06-02-2014 11:00PM

This post has been deleted.

Corkfeen · 06-02-2014 11:02PM

No

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You haven't resorted to many actual points......

alaimacerc · 06-02-2014 11:04PM

Daith wrote: »

The best argument is to point out they were against Civil Partnership too.

It's the useful "fighting conservative retreat". Admit the "controversial liberal idea" of the decade or so before as the new orthodoxy, dig in to new line of defence as short a distance away as is politically feasible. "I've consistently said I'm fine with reform of the public indecency law, but let's not go so far as to actually make being an 'invert' legal!" "Well, of course it should be lawful, but civil partnership is making a mockery of marriage, and shouldn't be tolerated." "They have civil partnership, of course I've always been fine with that, hands off sullying my marriage by association!"

I note that the UK legislation allows religious denominations to "opt in" to performing church weddings under its terms. I don't think any of the big 'uns plan to, but surely the likes of the Unitarians will? That in turn will put pressure on others to follow in due course -- and if they don't, might produce (yet another) split, or denominational drift.

Obliq · 06-02-2014 11:04PM

No

eorpach wrote: »

I think you'll find that Manning has participated in this thread extensively (using his surname).

Wut?!

Links234 wrote: »

Or attitudes towards LGBT people have changed in the past few years, and that is really quite heartening.

That represents quite a sea change. Or a lot of Death Note fans. I'm not sure which.

Links234 wrote: »

I'm still not willing to rule out that AH folks are huge Death Note fans though.

What is this Death Note and avatar of which you speak?! Ludite here has only ventured onto AH in recent months btw. Years ago, it looked a bit too furious for me to want to jump into the fray, so I reckon attitudes on AH must have changed a good bit.

alaimacerc · 06-02-2014 11:06PM

floggg wrote: »

All too often, conservatives just don't care as long as its happening to somebody else.

You could translate that into Latin, put it on a t-shirt, and it'd do fine as the slogan of Conservatives and "Libertarians" everywhere.

Links234 · 06-02-2014 11:08PM

No

Obliq wrote: »

What is this Death Note and avatar of which you speak?! Ludite here has only ventured onto AH in recent months btw. Years ago, it looked a bit too furious for me to want to jump into the fray, so I reckon attitudes on AH must have changed a good bit.

How to describe Death Note.... Hmmmm.

Try and imagine a battle of wits between Sherlock and mortiarty, except Japanese... And mortiarty has superpowers and can kill Sherlock dead just by knowing his name. That's Death Note, only awesomer.

seenitall · 06-02-2014 11:10PM

No

My mother recently voted No to gay marriage in the referendum in my country of origin. When I asked her why she voted that way, the response was "I am Catholic", and then the usual about God-man-woman and "they can have something called something else, but not MARRIAGE". I didn't bother talking any more than that, it was after the fact anyway, and I don't have the best of relationships with her in the first place.

My brother voted for the inclusion, though, and I would hope that, like the abortion here, it is at least somewhat a matter of biological, eh, 'turnover' in the population. :pac:

Sadly, the referendum affirmed my country as backward and nearer to Russia than France ideologically. Siht.

I think Ireland will change things for itself, though.

Annasopra · 06-02-2014 11:17PM

No

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Of course you can Petal :pac:

Annasopra · 06-02-2014 11:20PM

No

seenitall wrote: »

My mother recently voted No to gay marriage in the referendum in my country of origin. When I asked her why she voted that way, the response was "I am Catholic", and then the usual about God-man-woman and "they can have something called something else, but not MARRIAGE". I didn't bother talking any more than that, it was after the fact anyway, and I don't have the best of relationships with her in the first place.

My brother voted for the inclusion, though, and I would hope that, like the abortion here, it is at least somewhat a matter of biological, eh, 'turnover' in the population. :pac:

Sadly, the referendum affirmed my country as backward and nearer to Russia than France ideologically. Siht.

I think Ireland will change things for itself, though.

Was that Croatia? Yeah I think Ireland is much more liberal than it was before even 10, 20 years ago.

Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

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