Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

iwantmydinner · 05-02-2014 11:49PM

RobertKK wrote: »

You seem to care about having a specific kind of relationship - civil marriage.
I can oppose the state involvement in marriage if I want to.

I was responding to someone, which I was entitled to.

I care about marriage equality. Sin é. Every consenting adult should be able to marry another consenting adult, and have that marriage recognised as equal to every other marriage.

I find it tragic that people feel so threatened by it.

hotmail.com · 05-02-2014 11:51PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

You seem to care about having a specific kind of relationship - civil marriage.
I can oppose the state involvement in marriage if I want to.

I was responding to someone, which I was entitled to.

But you have written a lot of anti-gay comments before. I have had debates with you before.

Are you anti-gay?

alaimacerc · 05-02-2014 11:52PM

floggg wrote: »

If a belief has been proven to be inaccurate, isn't it time to re-examine it?

Or making it infallible, unalterable doctrine with the full teaching magisterium of the church. Could easily break either way!

Bannasidhe · 05-02-2014 11:52PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

Single, and I don't view civil marriage as marriage for starters whether heterosexual or homosexual, the idea of the state being involved is such a turn off.

When told a relation was married recently in a registry office, had to pretend to be happy for them rather than cause upset by telling what I really thought.

I will never vote yes to civil marriage, I want it abolished.

Ummmm..

The only legally recognised form of marriage is Civil Marriage. If the State ain't involved it ain't a marriage.

The thing that happens in a church isn't actually marriage. It is a religious ceremony that has no legal basis whatsoever. None. Nada. Zilch.

Until the Registry is signed and witnessed by the officiating clergy person in their role as Civil Registrar the couple ain't married.

road_high · 05-02-2014 11:52PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

Single, and I don't view civil marriage as marriage for starters whether heterosexual or homosexual, the idea of the state being involved is such a turn off.

When told a relation was married recently in a registry office, had to pretend to be happy for them rather than cause upset by telling what I really thought.

I will never vote yes to civil marriage, I want it abolished.

Wow i'm sure he would be devastated to hear "what you really thought". I'd imagine that would be hugely upsetting for anyone to hear, especially a relation. Please don't tell him and put the whole marriage in jeperody.

floggg · 05-02-2014 11:53PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

Single, and I don't view civil marriage as marriage for starters whether heterosexual or homosexual, the idea of the state being involved is such a turn off.

When told a relation was married recently in a registry office, had to pretend to be happy for them rather than cause upset by telling what I really thought.

I will never vote yes to civil marriage, I want it abolished.

I forgot you had such a nonsensical view. The version of marriage with all the legal benefits, protections and obligations isn't real, but the religious version which is utterly meaningless and can be walked away from or wished away at will is.

Well then, same question but imagine your are religious married.

How will it in impact your "real" religious marriage i get "not real" civil married.

And how do you address the resulting inequality of from voting no to marriage equality, while allowing it to remain an option for straight people?

Is your opposition to marriage more important than the right of lgbt irish citizens to be treated with equal dignity and respect by the irish state, and to receive the same legal benefits and protections, as straight people.

hotmail.com · 05-02-2014 11:54PM

No

road_high wrote: »

Wow i'm sure he would be devastated to hear "what you really thought". I'd imagine that would be hugely upsetting for anyone to hear, especially a relation. Please don't tell him and put the whole marriage in jeperody.

He's not used to being asked to weddings.

SpaceTime · 05-02-2014 11:55PM

mango salsa wrote: »

Agreed.
Panti noted that she is homophobic.
I am sometimes homophobic.

That's what happens when there is a general culture of homophobia. There has been a culture of homophobia in Ireland emanating from religion, the media, the political system, the education system. It's a pervasiveness. Of course things have vastly changed in the last 25 years but the remnants of that culture still stay with many of us here in Ireland.

Only last year I listened to a speech by the Dundalk Outcomers manager where she acknowledged they are now assisting teenagers who are homeless. These teenagers have been kicked out of home by their parents because they are gay.

I'd actually say there's a culture of homophobia in most countries. Just look at a South Park episode ...

Ireland's actually showing very very high levels of support for same sex marriage in opinion polling. Things have changed enormously.

We just have to keep chipping away at it just like sexism and racism..

Panti has big support!

road_high · 05-02-2014 11:55PM

No

hotmail.com wrote: »

He's not used to being asked to weddings.

Certainly not ones that have occurred in this century at least....

P_1 · 05-02-2014 11:58PM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

Single, and I don't view civil marriage as marriage for starters whether heterosexual or homosexual, the idea of the state being involved is such a turn off.

When told a relation was married recently in a registry office, had to pretend to be happy for them rather than cause upset by telling what I really thought.

I will never vote yes to civil marriage, I want it abolished.

Right I'm going to assume that you're religious and thus prefer the religious idea of marriage. That's fair enough and I doubt you'd find many who would want to deprive you of that. Quite a lot of people are not religious and thus prefer civil marriage (which by the way supersedes religious marriage in the eyes of the law).

Annasopra · 06-02-2014 12:08AM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

Single, and I don't view civil marriage as marriage for starters whether heterosexual or homosexual, the idea of the state being involved is such a turn off.

When told a relation was married recently in a registry office, had to pretend to be happy for them rather than cause upset by telling what I really thought.

I will never vote yes to civil marriage, I want it abolished.

You seem very bitter about civil marriage.

K-9 · 06-02-2014 12:09AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Single, and I don't view civil marriage as marriage for starters whether heterosexual or homosexual, the idea of the state being involved is such a turn off.

When told a relation was married recently in a registry office, had to pretend to be happy for them rather than cause upset by telling what I really thought.

I will never vote yes to civil marriage, I want it abolished.

Yeah it takes 2 people dressed in gowns and a guy dressed in a suit to make it sacred.

I hope you were around in 85 and 96 because tbh, you're time has gone, and you lost in 96.

Reminds me of me signing a petition to retain the Catholic Church in the local hospital here. The hospital was flooded recently, and it was doubtful if the chapel would be retained with the renovation works. I signed the partition no problem, the chapel is a great source of comfort for those visiting sick or dying people for those religiously inclined. Don't know what Protestants, Presbyterian, Paisleyite Free Presbyterians and Methodists do but how and ever.

The young lad foisting the petition then goes on about "this is the latest attack on the Catholic Church in Ireland". I was way too polite to tell him to go and "feck off" and scribble out my signature.

My son, once he heard that crap, treated them for the disdain they deserve, and he has the utmost respect for religious people. Just ignored them when they pressurised him for his signature.

Catholic church rule is at an end. The lack of respect it shows for other peoples beliefs is finally showing through. I respect your beliefs, you don't respect mine, you told us to respect priests and the hierarchy.

All coming home to roost. I'd respect a marriage in Dublin zoo more than that joke of an Irish Church. The new pope seems a very humble, respectful and decent man, he's his work cut for him in the Irish church.

Annasopra · 06-02-2014 12:11AM

No

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'd actually say there's a culture of homophobia in most countries. Just look at a South Park episode ...

Ireland's actually showing very very high levels of support for same sex marriage in opinion polling. Things have changed enormously.

We just have to keep chipping away at it just like sexism and racism..

Panti has big support!

In a way this whole thing has been incredibly beneficial. People are speaking about their hurt and anger and they are letting Iona and others how goddamned opressive and hurtful their homophobia is.

SpaceTime · 06-02-2014 12:12AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Single, and I don't view civil marriage as marriage for starters whether heterosexual or homosexual, the idea of the state being involved is such a turn off.

When told a relation was married recently in a registry office, had to pretend to be happy for them rather than cause upset by telling what I really thought.

I will never vote yes to civil marriage, I want it abolished.

Eh, you're not going to be asked to vote on whether or not you want civil marriage abolished.
It's been available since the foundation of the state (and before).

Civil marriage also doesn't have to occur within the confines of a registry office anymore. Many ceremonies take place in hotels and other venues.

You can also have humanist secular ceremonies.

pconn062 · 06-02-2014 12:22AM

No

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ummmm..

The only legally recognised form of marriage is Civil Marriage. If the State ain't involved it ain't a marriage.

The thing that happens in a church isn't actually marriage. It is a religious ceremony that has no legal basis whatsoever. None. Nada. Zilch.

Until the Registry is signed and witnessed by the officiating clergy person in their role as Civil Registrar the couple ain't married.

Don't you be coming in here, waving around you facts and balanced points! Abolished it should be, abolished!

Bannasidhe · 06-02-2014 12:29AM

No

pconn062 wrote: »

Don't you be coming in here, waving around you facts and balanced points! Abolished it should be, abolished!

I have no issue with it being abolished tbh then no body can have it and we are all equal hahahahahahahaha

But since that is unlikely to happen in the near future.... all adults should have the right to give it a go if that is what they want.

Like Rollercoasters...

alaimacerc · 06-02-2014 12:34AM

opinionated3 wrote: »

The act of gay love disgusts me andi just don't think it's natural. Having that said I wish no harm on anyone. [...] If that is the definition of a homophobe well then so be it.

I think that's what a certain Aaron Sorkin mouthpiece character would call "homophobia in the way that makes sense". (As opposed to the equivalent of the liberal end of the church spectrum's "tolerant and compassionate inequality", if you were to take their protestations at face value.)

It's my opinion and not something I'm going to run down the street with a megaphone blaring about.

You do realize that you're posting to a national website about it, right?

TeddyTedson · 06-02-2014 12:35AM

No

Is there anyway I can see the debate. I can't find it on RTÉ player or YouTube?

Annasopra · 06-02-2014 12:37AM

No

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Is there anyway I can see the debate. I can't find it on RTÉ player or YouTube?

What debate?

alaimacerc · 06-02-2014 12:48AM

K-9 wrote: »

Reminds me of me signing a petition to retain the Catholic Church in the local hospital here. The hospital was flooded recently, and it was doubtful if the chapel would be retained with the renovation works. I signed the partition no problem, the chapel is a great source of comfort for those visiting sick or dying people for those religiously inclined. Don't know what Protestants, Presbyterian, Paisleyite Free Presbyterians and Methodists do but how and ever.

Apparently the proposal (that they're petitioning against) is to turn it into a interdenominational room. (That would be an ecumenical matter!) The horror, the horror...

Bannasidhe · 06-02-2014 12:59AM

No

alaimacerc wrote: »

Apparently the proposal (that they're petitioning against) is to turn it into a interdenominational room. (That would be an ecumenical matter!) The horror, the horror...

What???

Have Catholics AND Protestants praying to the same God in the Same Room at the Same Time. :eek::eek::eek:

:pac:

J_E · 06-02-2014 01:00AM

No

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Is there anyway I can see the debate. I can't find it on RTÉ player or YouTube?

Which one? There are a few now.

P_1 · 06-02-2014 01:03AM

No

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Is there anyway I can see the debate. I can't find it on RTÉ player or YouTube?

There have been quite a few debates at this stage:

1 - The interview with Rory O'Neill that started it all can be found on dailymotion
2 - The Saturday Night Show debate from last Saturday should be found on the RTE Player
3 - The Vincent Brown debate from last night should be found on the TV3 Player.

AngryHippie · 06-02-2014 01:04AM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

I don't have time to watch TV.

I watched about 2 hours of TV in the last week, due to work, visiting hospital, sleep and looking after myself.

How many hours in the last week have you spent dodging questions and building straw men in this forum ?

Maybe your time could be better spent

TeddyTedson · 06-02-2014 01:07AM

No

Sorry folks I found the debate on RTÉ player. I meant to say the initial interview that sparked it all off.

Thanks I'll check that site

J_E · 06-02-2014 01:08AM

No

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Sorry folks I found the debate on RTÉ player. I meant to say the initial interview that sparked it all off.

Thanks I'll check that site

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x19q67h_rory-oneill-the-saturday-night-show-11-1-2014_gaylesbian

The bit you want.

alaimacerc · 06-02-2014 01:14AM

Cydoniac wrote: »

I genuinely feel sorry for him. He has all the hallmarks of a person who agrees with conservative ideals but is dying inside because he knows that being gay excludes him, so he tries to attack his own to get one-ups and high fives.

I'm not sure to what extent it would exclude him. Look at David Starkey, who is practically a parody of a conservative in just about every respect. (They say a conservative is someone who agrees with liberal ideas about 10-30 years after they were a live political issue; he said with a straight face during the UK "AV" referendum that the electoral system had "only" had its present form for 150 years, what was the rush to be changing it again?) Perhaps tenure and a few bestsellers would ease Manning's angst, too.

I think the one-ups and high fives is about right, though. It's a very effective selling point to be seen to be the "critic from within". (So much so that some people continue to try it decades after they've stopped being "in" the group they're "controversially" criticising.)

alaimacerc · 06-02-2014 01:26AM

Cydoniac wrote: »

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x19q67h_rory-oneill-the-saturday-night-show-11-1-2014_gaylesbian

The bit you want.

Thanks, much obliged, that was some important context!

I can see that this is maybe something the regulator might have wanted to wag a finger at; the host's hardly doing much of "balancing": in fact, he's throwing in a question that's phrased massively leadingly. But... libelous? On what planet?

I'm much solidified in my initial thought that RTE should have taken an attitude of "millions(*) on defence; not one cent in tribute". By "settling early", RTE is just further reinforcing the idea already abroad that it's a soft target for such shakedowns.

(*) That was back when millions sounded like hyperbole, not "loose change" in the context of American military spending...

alaimacerc · 06-02-2014 01:29AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Have Catholics AND Protestants praying to the same God in the Same Room at the Same Time. :eek::eek::eek:

Let's not lose the run of ourselves! We can do a rota, and postit it on the fridge! (Or in this case, the multi-configuration altar/communion table...)

Zubeneschamali · 06-02-2014 08:50AM

No

RobertKK wrote: »

I don't view civil marriage as marriage for starters whether heterosexual or homosexual.

No harm in letting the gays have civil marriage, so. If it isn't in the same category as your kind of marriage, it doesn't undermine it any more than two atheists at the Registry office does.

Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

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