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Do you think the Iona Institute are homophobic?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    No
    Think we've been over this. I'll tune in again so when agreement is reached. This is fairly basic stuff.

    "Equal to" does not mean "the same as".


    You've never explained yourself in any thread on the subject I've seen you in, phill. You object, but won't explain, you make cryptic statements and refuse to expand on them.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 19,134 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    I try not to pay too much attention to them as they seem a bit whiney. They've essentially adopted the same narrative you'll find amongst similar lobby groups in other English speaking countries. The US, UK and other parts of the word, I suspect. All core trigger words and sentences to remind their base of what's wrong/threat is looming. Namely,

    - Irish mainstream media is biased to the left
    - Homosexuality can't be discussed without being labelled a homophobe - help we're being oppressed
    - The definition of equality is never challenged
    - SSM is a threat to or attack on traditional marriage - yes, marriage is a penis and a vagina
    - Religious freedom is under attack
    - Traditional families are under attack - are the gays going to come and take your children?
    - Family values - honestly, who uses this term other than lobby groups and politicians - vote grabbing tool
    - Liberals, blah blah
    - Politically correct, anti-Catholic media
    - Gay lobby/activists/agenda

    They are never short on air time or ink. They have a regular, strong media profile and I wouldn't stop them from airing their views, but it's often amusing how people who are adept at playing the persecution card suit up with legal threats and the like. The political right has always been better at organising - there's a large range of socially conservative groups online, active on social media, or having a presence somewhere in Ireland (see Twitter), and yet, they'll still say they do not have a voice, blah blah. The vibe I get from some is that they would like to return to the boot on the throat of the populace approach of past Irish Catholicism. I'm sure they'd say now, though, that the church is unfairly blamed for every social ill in the land, and yes, there may be a truth in that given some of the kneejerk commentary on the RCC.

    I don't think the Iona folks represent ordinary or census Catholics, though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,266 ✭✭✭Daith


    No
    DK man wrote: »
    I know a guy who is living with two sisters and wants to marry both -who are we to judge them - they have a house full of kids and they all get on so well. I say each to their own - no rules like!

    He should get out and start a campaign. I assume he's straight if he's living with two girls. Not sure what that has to do with LGBT rights.

    My voting yes to same sex marriage isnt going to help him I'm afraid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    No
    Which is a view. Once we get over the namecalling and petty digs we might discus that.

    What do you think?

    I think: who did I call names :confused:

    And what are you going on about petty digs?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,860 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    efb wrote: »
    heres the thing, can we just do gay marriage in this thread as its not `bout the II being polyphobic

    I thought this thread was about the Iona Institute :confused:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    No
    I don't think the Iona folks represent ordinary or census Catholics, though.

    Yeah I don't think they do either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    No
    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I thought this thread was about the Iona Institute :confused:

    It is II shorthand for Iona Institute


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    No

    "Equal to" does not mean "the same as".

    Good point. Gay people are not "the same as" straight people, but allowing gay marriage would make them "equal to".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    I'd blame brain washing more than homophobia. They get their opinions from what the bible and the Vatican says, any deviation from the script isn't really allowed. You see it with FG/FF/SF/Libertarian apparatchiks, "must follow the leaders spiel no matter how stupid it makes me look."

    The best way of ridiculing groups like that is to actually take them semi-seriously, ask for studies and reports to back up their pre rehearsed stock replies, most of it hasn't been analysed by critical thought, so glaring weaknesses exist.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    No
    To be honest their apparent desire to force their vision of how people are supposed to live their lives on people is what makes me detest them more than their homophobia. Yes they are homophobic which is wrong but there's something sinister about them having such an influence within the media.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    No
    They're the homophobiest bunch of homophobes who ever homophobed. You can fill the media and internet with claims that gay parents are inferior while lying to constitutional conventions about Child Trends research in order to pretend gays are destroying society, or you can claim you're not a homophobe, but it's one or the other. It's interesting that anyone could actually maintain enough doublethink to try doing both.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭seenitall


    No
    K-9 wrote: »
    I'd blame brain washing more than homophobia.
    Religious brainwashing IS indoctrinating into homophobia (as well as plenty of other -phobias and -isms).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    No
    P_1 wrote: »
    To be honest their apparent desire to force their vision of how people are supposed to live their lives on people is what makes me detest them more than their homophobia. Yes they are homophobic which is wrong but there's something sinister about them having such an influence within the media.
    I think the amount of gray areas and gaps in their inner workings are more than suspicious. Said it many times now, but when the charity watchdogs finally get their act together and come to fruition, we are hopefully going to see Iona for what they really are, and what they're in it for. I can guarantee you it's not just for the good of God.

    What confuses me more is how much attention Breda O Brien gets from the "patron of Iona Institute" title alone. I mean, what is that? She has no formal stand, bar being a teacher and founder of "Feminists For Life of Ireland" (which hardly ever gets mentioned)

    In fact, google "Feminists For Life of Ireland" and all you get are Wikipedia articles mentioning it and a few small-time Catholic media outlets proving it exists at all. Not even that, if you search the 'of ireland' at the end. It's almost a made up organisation to feign a sense of authority.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    seenitall wrote: »
    Religious brainwashing IS indoctrinating into homophobia (as well as plenty of other -phobias and -isms).

    Yep, the brain washing leads to homophobic beliefs.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    No
    Cydoniac wrote: »
    I think the amount of gray areas and gaps in their inner workings are more than suspicious. Said it many times now, but when the charity watchdogs finally get their act together and come to fruition, we are hopefully going to see Iona for what they really are, and what they're in it for. I can guarantee you it's not just for the good of God.

    What confuses me more is how much attention Breda O Brien gets from the "patron of Iona Institute" title alone. I mean, what is that? She has no formal stand, bar being a teacher and founder of "Feminists For Life of Ireland" (which hardly ever gets mentioned)

    In fact, google "Feminists For Life of Ireland" and all you get are Wikipedia articles mentioning it and a few small-time Catholic media outlets proving it exists at all. Not even that, if you search the 'of ireland' at the end. It's almost a made up organisation to feign a sense of authority.

    Sadly they'll probably try to sue the charity watchdogs


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,601 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    No
    Think we've been over this. I'll tune in again so when agreement is reached. This is fairly basic stuff.

    "Equal to" does not mean "the same as".

    Phil, simply, if you're child were to.be gay, and subsequently entered into a relationship, what reasoning would you tell.this child for you saying they can't marry the person they love the same as(or to be equal to if you prefer) you and your partner? Why is there relationship so much less than yours?

    I asked this to a member of Iona mast year, and was told 'my child wouldn't be gay, they know better".. Beccause yano it's a choice and all..

    There's no.such think.as a "gay lobby/agenda".. There's a large group of the Irish population wanting equal rights for all its citizens.. And a bunch of backwArds thinking people..

    What will happen if samesex,marriage is passed?.. To straight people, ABDOLUTELY NOTHING, YOUR RIGHTS WILL NOT CHANGE.. Just more people will marry people they love..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    No
    P_1 wrote: »
    Sadly they'll probably try to sue the charity watchdogs
    The thing I worry about is with an organisation with so much to hide and the right people to talk to, not to mention the power of their American benefactors, there could be quite a fight to get to the bottom of things.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭whats the point


    Why not just abolish marriage? It's only your name on a piece of paper to get tax relief.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    No
    Why not just abolish marriage? It's only your name on a piece of paper to get tax relief.
    How will people have their Prince/ss for a day €15k event then?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    No
    Cydoniac wrote: »
    The thing I worry about is with an organisation with so much to hide and the right people to talk to, not to mention the power of their American benefactors, there could be quite a fight to get to the bottom of things.

    Very true, thankfully they don't have any more power than they currently do. They strike me as being a (thankfully much) less-barbaric catholic version of the Taliban.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Shakti


    No
    I'm uncomfortable with the co-founder of the Iona Institute also being the Head of Adult Psychiatry in the mater.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    No
    Shakti wrote: »
    I'm uncomfortable with the co-founder of the Iona Institute also being the Head of Adult Psychiatry in the mater.

    Whatever about the Iona the real issue is the Mater is a catholic hospital as are most of the hospitals in Ireland


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭whats the point


    Cydoniac wrote: »
    How will people have their Prince/ss for a day €15k event then?

    You could buy a nice crown or tiara for 15k and feel like a prince or princess whatever day you fancy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    No
    Why not just abolish marriage? It's only your name on a piece of paper to get tax relief.

    Nah, I think I'd like to marry someday


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Shakti


    No
    marienbad wrote: »
    Whatever about the Iona the real issue is the Mater is a catholic hospital as are most of the hospitals in Ireland


    true enough, no matter sic what I tell that communion dude he always asks me without fail


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭whats the point


    _Redzer_ wrote: »
    Nah, I think I'd like to marry someday

    Does a piece of paper mean that so much to you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    No
    Does a piece of paper mean that so much to you?

    Who says romance is dead!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭_Redzer_


    No
    Does a piece of paper mean that so much to you?

    It's not the paper that appeals to me, it's the concept of it. I don't have an issue with people who have no interest in marriage and I don't see marriage as a step up if you're in a long-term and committed relationship, but for me, I like the idea of taking it a step further. That's just me.

    I feel if you don't want to get married, you don't have to, but also see that some people do want it.
    It'd be like me asking you and wondering why you wouldn't want to get married, it's really irrelevant. Different strokes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,547 ✭✭✭Foxhound38


    No
    Manach wrote: »
    They constitant portray a balanced pro-family traditional world view and provide material to discuss the issues within a conservative framework on the sanctity of marriage and the norms of historical morally. They seem as well not to dwell on the cliche and sound-bite speech of their some of their progressive opponents who seek to clamp down on the debate by seeking to denigrate their opponents by applying any amount of tags, such as being homophobic.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    No
    Macklemore and Ryan Lewis fairly knocked it out of the park at the Grammies


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