Indicating after an overtake

CramCycle · 25-01-2014 01:48PM

Del2005 wrote: »

If it's not illegal due to Statute then it doesn't matter how many videos of the act are available there is nothing that can be used against you.

Driving without due care and attention
Dangerous driving
etc.
Nice catch all phrases for a situation like this.

vibe666 · 25-01-2014 02:03PM

Del2005 wrote: »

The ROTR aren't a law to be obeyed. You only get in trouble for not obeying the Statutes. If it's not illegal due to Statute then it doesn't matter how many videos of the act are available there is nothing that can be used against you.

and can you link to the specific statute that says you shouldn't indicate at all times when changing lanes?

As I've already said "mirror, signal, manoeuvre".

It's drummed into you when you learn to drive for a reason and the only reason NOT to do it is by making the assumption that everyone around you knows exactly what you intend to do at all times when you are changing lanes, which is a recipe for disaster, sooner or later.

Del2005 · 25-01-2014 02:10PM

CramCycle wrote: »

Driving without due care and attention
Dangerous driving
etc.
Nice catch all phrases for a situation like this.

Yes they are statutes and the ROTR aren't. If the first couple of pages of the ROTR didn't expressly stated it's not a law, it's an interpretation of the law, I'd be worried about not obeying them.

In the statutes there is no mention of the need to indicate when overtaking.

vibe666 · 25-01-2014 02:20PM

Del2005 wrote: »

Yes they are statutes and the ROTR aren't. If the first couple of pages of the ROTR didn't expressly stated it's not a law, it's an interpretation of the law, I'd be worried about not obeying them.

In the statutes there is no mention of the need to indicate when overtaking.

I'm on my phone at the moment, but I would be very surprised if there isn't something in there about signaling when changing lanes which is a prerequisite for overtaking unless you plan on jumping right over the car in front night rider style?

slimjimmc · 25-01-2014 02:21PM

Del2005 wrote: »

Yes they are statutes and the ROTR aren't. If the first couple of pages of the ROTR didn't expressly stated it's not a law, it's an interpretation of the law, I'd be worried about not obeying them.

In the statutes there is no mention of the need to indicate when overtaking.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a18

Signals by Drivers
18. (1) A driver intending to slow down, stop, or alter course, shall either give a signal by using a direction indicator or stop lamp, as appropriate, or give the appropriate hand signal set out in Table A in the Second Schedule.

In order to overtake you must alter your course to get around the person/animal/object/vehicle/obstruction in front.

vibe666 · 25-01-2014 02:24PM

slimjimmc wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a18

In order to overtake you must alter your course to get around the person/animal/object/vehicle/obstruction in front.

aaaaaaaand /thread. :pac:

mathepac · 25-01-2014 04:18PM

Del2005 wrote: »

.... In the statutes there is no mention of the need to indicate when overtaking.

Oh wait a minute, that statement is total nonsense, rubbish.

Del2005 wrote: »

Yes they are statutes and the ROTR aren't. If the first couple of pages of the ROTR didn't expressly stated it's not a law, it's an interpretation of the law, I'd be worried about not obeying them. ...

I'm not sure what this statement means but if it's an attempt to justify ignoring the ROTR then the poster has no guidelines as to correct behaviour on Irish roads, probably typical of a lot of drivers.

Sorry: missed prior detailed post about statutes

Greyfoot · 25-01-2014 05:16PM

Only on 3+ lane motorways, but always a returner anyway.

EDIT> just reading here other comments, using the indicators and other "rules" should be used by common sense due to safety issues on yerself when operating any motor vehicle (wind, jet prop, whatever), not whether its mandatory or no.

vibe666 · 25-01-2014 06:37PM

When you make a habit of doing it all the time, even if there's nobody for miles around, you'll end up doing it subconsciously without thinking about it and be much less likely to forget to do it when it's actually needed, whether you realise it or not, such as if someone is in a blind spot or when you just don't notice them for whatever reason.

_Kaiser_ · 25-01-2014 07:07PM

Yes.. always! Regardless of the type of road.

Once again though I find myself shocked by some of the answers to such a basic/common sense question and yet not surprised given the muppetry I encounter on the roads.

This thread and others like it do make the case for frequent retesting of ALL drivers all the stronger though.

Popoutman · 26-01-2014 03:41AM

I'll indicate always for a change of lane. I'll indicate correctly and in time to start an overtake. I will rarely indicate for the completion of an overtake.

(Pedantic mode on.) I don't consider a re-merge on a single carriageway as a lane change as it's an overtaking manoeuvre - I haven't changed lane as I don't have a valid lane to change to. I'll indicate for the start of the overtake as that's appropriate for the circumstances as well as being on the statute books.
Performing the same road manoeuvre on a dual carriageway or other multi-lane road involves me moving to a different and valid lane therefore it's a lane change, and gets indicated appropriately.(Pedantic mode off)

It's one of those rather ambiguous situations where one thing makes sense to one group and not doing it makes sense to another. Similar to what do you do if you are in freely-moving but heavy traffic going at e.g. 60ph, when the car in front of you indicates to turn right? Do you indicate left, and move to the left, suggesting to the car behind that you are turning left, and the driver behind may start to edge to the right to avoid you and rear end the car actually turning right? Do you instead take up a left-hand road position allowing the car behind to see the car in front indicating to the right? Do you hit the hazards for one or two flashes? All these courses can be explained and validated as correct..

AlanMcC23 · 26-01-2014 03:46AM

I only do it if the car behind me before i overtake the car in front is a squad car :P other than that i never do it seems pointless to be honest

K.Flyer · 26-01-2014 03:57AM

Whatever about using indicators (a signal to INDICATE your intention to other road users) its the muppets that don't cancel their indicator and drive for miles with it flashing away that really grates my bones.
Edit:
I should have mentioned I indicate for almost any change of direction, I never rely on others to second guess what I am up to.

_Kaiser_ · 26-01-2014 11:18AM

Popoutman wrote: »

(Pedantic mode on.) I don't consider a re-merge on a single carriageway as a lane change as it's an overtaking manoeuvre - I haven't changed lane as I don't have a valid lane to change to. I'll indicate for the start of the overtake as that's appropriate for the circumstances as well as being on the statute books.
Performing the same road manoeuvre on a dual carriageway or other multi-lane road involves me moving to a different and valid lane therefore it's a lane change, and gets indicated appropriately.(Pedantic mode off)

[REALLY pedantic mode on]

But you ARE changing lanes.. you're moving into the oncoming lane which IS valid (as long as the road markings permit it) for the duration of the manoeuvere

As such when you move back (and by your own logic) you should be indicating as well

[/REALLY pedantic mode]

In any case, the idea of using those flashing orange lights is to indicate your intentions to other road users. Given the poor standard of driving out there generally it can only be a good thing to remind some of these muppets what you're up to lest they do something stupid!

For example.. when driving through the city centre in Dublin - among taxis that randomly pull in and out of bus lanes or stop suddenly in the middle of the road to pick up a fare, buses that will cross 2/3 lanes in one move, bikers and cyclists weaving between traffic and of course other car drivers - I will ALWAYS indicate in good time and wait a few seconds (I don't mean stop) before I move. It's what I call letting everyone get used to the idea first!

Plus it encourages others to give way/let you in rather than trying to force your way in at the last second.

aloyisious · 26-01-2014 11:23AM

Indicate, indicate, indicate. Besides the O/Motorist, pedestrians and cyclists and O/P's coming the opposite direction like to know what your next move is.

MaxFlower · 26-01-2014 11:51AM

bigroad wrote: »

I have to agree.It amazes the amount of sloweys that flash when you overtake them ,as if you should stay behind them till they see fit to raise their speed from zero.

Not a slow driver but I flash drivers that overtake me when, on their return to the same lane, they try to brush the dead flies off my front bumper. I estimated once that one car allowed 3-4 feet between us as they re-merged at 95km/h on the motorway. No problem with being overtaken, just don't want to be swapping paint/wing mirrors with anyone.

spurious · 26-01-2014 11:56AM

I find it useful to wait until the car I'm overtaking appears in my rearview mirror, not just the side one. Then I know I'm far enough ahead of them not to irritate them.

YbFocus · 26-01-2014 11:59AM

spurious wrote: »

I find it useful to wait until the car I'm overtaking appears in my rearview mirror, not just the side one. Then I know I'm far enough ahead of them not to irritate them.

Thats the rule I follow also, if you can see it there then it is definitely far enough back

vibe666 · 26-01-2014 12:06PM

spurious wrote: »

I find it useful to wait until the car I'm overtaking appears in my rearview mirror, not just the side one. Then I know I'm far enough ahead of them not to irritate them.

Always a good rule of thumb, once you can see the front of their car in your rear view mirror, you know you're safely in the clear.

flazio · 26-01-2014 12:09PM

On a dual carrigeway, motorway, I always indicate whenever I'm changing lanes, regardless of the reason for the lane change.

MaxFlower · 26-01-2014 12:13PM

Good idea for the people that have trouble judging, I like the rear view mirror idea. I tend to use the side mirror but I also tend to overcompensate.

BTW, now that I think about it I find that on motorway I do indicate to return to the inside lane but I don't on single carriageway. Maybe I'll start again.

djimi · 26-01-2014 12:58PM

I indicate left not to show that Im moving back in, but when I intend to move back in. I would always leave plenty of room when moving back in after overtaking, but the way I see it its no harm to give advance warning anyway; its always best not to startle people...

challengemaster · 26-01-2014 04:30PM

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

[REALLY pedantic mode on]

But you ARE changing lanes.. you're moving into the oncoming lane which IS valid (as long as the road markings permit it) for the duration of the manoeuvere

The maneuver is valid, the lane however is not.

If you were asked which lanes can you travel in while heading northbound on the M50, you wouldn't include the lanes on the southbound side as you're committing an offense by driving on the wrong side of the road. Same logic applies to single carriageways. If you cannot continuously travel in that lane without committing some traffic offense, it's not a valid lane for travelling in.

Or another way to look at it: You are obliged to drive on the left, therefore the right side of the road is not a valid lane to travel in.

The common sense that you will return to your own lane (moving left) is even in the statutes:

S.I. No. 294/1964: wrote:

" overtaking " includes passing out, and cognate words shall be construed accordingly ;

Obligation to drive on the left and to use traffic lanes
17.—(1) A driver shall drive as near to the left hand side of the roadway as is necessary in order to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or a pedestrian, approaching traffic to pass him on his right and overtaking traffic to overtake him on his right.

19.—(3) A driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.

Scartbeg · 26-01-2014 05:41PM

I virtually never indicate when pulling back in, what purpose does it serve to the person I have just passed? Exceptions being where I can see someone coming up behind me at speed, to indicate that I will be moving over to let them pass, and on single lane roads where someone is approaching from the other direction and needs reassurance that I am about to clear their lane.

The Institute of Advanced Motorists puts emphasis on observation, anticipation and situational awareness rather than driving on autopilot. And giving a signal at all times is driving on autopilot. The main difference from indicating blindly is that it actually gives some thought to the presence of other road users.

And I tear my hair out every time I have someone overtake me and give one flash of the indicator when they are already half-way back into the left lane. WHAT IS THE POINT! If the intention is to give me warning of their impending manoeuvre, then they are 5 seconds too late!

_Kaiser_ · 26-01-2014 06:07PM

challengemaster wrote: »

The maneuver is valid, the lane however is not.

If you were asked which lanes can you travel in while heading northbound on the M50, you wouldn't include the lanes on the southbound side as you're committing an offense by driving on the wrong side of the road. Same logic applies to single carriageways. If you cannot continuously travel in that lane without committing some traffic offense, it's not a valid lane for travelling in.

Or another way to look at it: You are obliged to drive on the left, therefore the right side of the road is not a valid lane to travel in.

The common sense that you will return to your own lane (moving left) is even in the statutes:

There's no comparison between the M50 and a 2-way single carriageway road with a broken line in the middle - not least because the M50 has a concrete barrier separating it! No offence is committed by entering the oncoming lane on the single carriageway to overtake a slower moving vehicle providing the road markings permit it thus being there is entirely valid for the duration of the overtake.

I'm not quite sure what your point is regardless, unless it's trying to justify a lack of common sense during such a move by quoting from the vagaries of law, which is interpreted in different ways on a daily basis by judges and solicitors and is not meant as a suicide pact hence being open to such interpretation in the first place.

Bottom line is that signaling your intentions to other traffic around you is ALWAYS a good idea.

mags1962 · 26-01-2014 06:57PM

I had to overtake a Garda car on the N7 when he comes down a slip road and trundles along at about 97 kmh in the driving lane. I of course pulled out and accelerated to just over 100 kmh to get past, indicated back in and pulled in in front of him about 45 metres away and he then flashed me???
I saw him flash me as I was looking in my rear view mirror as I made sure I was far enough past to pull back in. I continued to keep an eye on him but he didn't do anything else and I was wondering why he flashed in the first place. he soon left the motorway but where are the feckers when the three lanes are all travelling at the same speed and the most empty lane is the inside driving lane?

chicorytip · 26-01-2014 08:36PM

Not necessary. When you see the vehicle behind
in the middle of your rear view mirror it's safe to
re-enter the left lane.

challengemaster · 26-01-2014 09:12PM

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

There's no comparison between the M50 and a 2-way single carriageway road with a broken line in the middle - not least because the M50 has a concrete barrier separating it! No offence is committed by entering the oncoming lane on the single carriageway to overtake a slower moving vehicle providing the road markings permit it thus being there is entirely valid for the duration of the overtake.

How did I know I'd get that response.

The funny thing is you're saying the same thing yourself. It's valid to use that lane for the duration of the overtake. Not indefinitely. You don't continue driving on the wrong side of the road until you reach your destination. Hence it's illogical to signal moving back, because what else would you do?

Dermot Illogical · 26-01-2014 09:17PM

I once did an advanced driving course and it was drilled into us not to indicate pulling back in.

aloyisious · 01-02-2014 09:44AM

I like this one.

Indicating after an overtake

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