UK considered giving half of NI to ROI

bear1 · 03-01-2014 10:31AM #1

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29884724.html

I wonder what would have happened if this had actually became a reality.
Could this have made things better?
Hard to see them turning Belfast into essentially the new Berlin Wall and I cant wrap my head around how splitting that city in half would have worked.
Still very interesting though

P_1 · 03-01-2014 10:41AM

I can see the theory of it alright. Keep both communities separated so they stop shooting each other. I think that formed part of the logic of the peace walls. A bit naive though in my eyes. Frankly I'm surprised it managed to go so far up the chain in the UK before being poo poohed.

moxin · 03-01-2014 10:46AM

The Nazi's would have been proud, shows you how bad Thatchers regime was to even entertain the idea.

Other incentives, such as loyalty tests for benefits and large-scale internment "should drive out large numbers", they speculated.

bear1 · 03-01-2014 10:48AM

Im curious how the half Belfast to ROI would have worked, I imagine a bit like Berlin before 1990.
I imagine Derry would have become the main town in Donegal?

P_1 · 03-01-2014 10:58AM

bear1 wrote: »

Im curious how the half Belfast to ROI would have worked, I imagine a bit like Berlin before 1990.
I imagine Derry would have become the main town in Donegal?

I think the common travel area was in effect by the 80's. I'd imagine that most of the heavy industry (H&W, Shortts etc) would have remained in North Belfast mind

hfallada · 03-01-2014 11:03AM

How many Irish people want NI? If the people riot over a flag, how bad will it be over a united Ireland? Most young people don't see people from NI as Irish, but British. Plus I'm sure there would a need to throw some foreign firms from the republic up to the north to show were integrating NI into the republic.

Do we really want some of the those wrack job NI politicians being able to run for the dail? I can't see a single benefit for the ROI taking over the running of NI

harryr711 · 03-01-2014 11:15AM

hfallada wrote: »

How many Irish people want NI? If the people riot over a flag, how bad will it be over a united Ireland? Most young people don't see people from NI as Irish, but British. Plus I'm sure there would a need to throw some foreign firms from the republic up to the north to show were integrating NI into the republic.

Do we really want some of the those wrack job NI politicians being able to run for the dail? I can't see a single benefit for the ROI taking over the running of NI

The majority of Irish people want unification, and according the an Irish Times poll would be prepared to pay extra taxes if necessary. I'm young, I see the six counties as Irish even if some of the residents consider themselves to be British. A single economy, with one tax system, legal system, etc. and ultimately one larger market is attractive for investors/businesses.

bear1 · 03-01-2014 11:15AM

hfallada wrote: »

How many Irish people want NI? If the people riot over a flag, how bad will it be over a united Ireland? Most young people don't see people from NI as Irish, but British. Plus I'm sure there would a need to throw some foreign firms from the republic up to the north to show were integrating NI into the republic.

Do we really want some of the those wrack job NI politicians being able to run for the dail? I can't see a single benefit for the ROI taking over the running of NI

To be honest, that whole situation confuses me.

bear1 · 03-01-2014 11:18AM

harryr711 wrote: »

The majority of Irish people want unification, and according the an Irish Times poll would be prepared to pay extra taxes if necessary. I'm young, I see the six counties as Irish even if some of the residents consider themselves to be British. A single economy, with one tax system, legal system, etc. and ultimately one larger market is attractive for investors/businesses.

I wouldn't be prepared for extra taxes to take on something which used to belong to us.
Times have changed, for everyone and in no way would I pay more to have the North. This is my opinion

moxin · 03-01-2014 11:46AM

hfallada wrote: »

Most young people don't see people from NI as Irish, but British.

Where did you spring this rubbish from?

03-01-2014 01:33PM

harryr711 wrote: »

The majority of Irish people want unification, and according the an Irish Times poll would be prepared to pay extra taxes if necessary. I'm young, I see the six counties as Irish even if some of the residents consider themselves to be British. A single economy, with one tax system, legal system, etc. and ultimately one larger market is attractive for investors/businesses.

Even though I believe that a majority in the Republic would vote for a UI I would be very wary of poll data for something that may never happen in the lifetime of the people being asked the question.

Poll data from NI may be more accurate, as the people there are ones that will decide, based on who they elect to the Assembly, whether a UI vote may ultimately take place.
And as we have seen from recent NI pools there is little appetite for a UI at the moment.

Happyman42 · 03-01-2014 01:55PM

Just further proof for me that had the Irish government been more strident and brave there is no telling what could have been achieved. From the renewed outbreak in 69 it's abundantly clear that the British where searching for the easiest way out of a situation that exasperated and had defeated them.
The ultimate responsibility for what happened lies with the two powers vested with finding solutions. The vacumn was filled by the two extremes until the British manned up and done the deal that needed to be done.

Manach · 03-01-2014 02:09PM

It does seem rather ironic given the historic context that the Boundary Commission report in the 1920s to change the border was shelved and (AFAIR) only suggested modest changes.

[Jackass] · 03-01-2014 03:09PM

Jesus, the absolute contempt she had for the Irish.

Although in fairness, some of them did try and blow her up.

bear1 · 03-01-2014 03:14PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Just further proof for me that had the Irish government been more strident and brave there is no telling what could have been achieved. From the renewed outbreak in 69 it's abundantly clear that the British where searching for the easiest way out of a situation that exasperated and had defeated them.
The ultimate responsibility for what happened lies with the two powers vested with finding solutions. The vacumn was filled by the two extremes until the British manned up and done the deal that needed to be done.

Have to totally agree with this.
Does anyone know how much NI costs the UK every year? and how it compares to Wales and Scotland?

An Coilean · 03-01-2014 03:58PM

hfallada wrote: »

Most young people don't see people from NI as Irish, but British.

Sorry, what? Can you back ths up?

Tramps Like Us · 03-01-2014 04:01PM

Would have worked out excellently for the IRA, plenty of new staging grounds for them, would have increased their effectiveness to south armagh levels

Tramps Like Us · 03-01-2014 04:02PM

moxin wrote: »

Where did you spring this rubbish from?

Not even most British people view loyalists from the north as british

the_syco · 03-01-2014 04:32PM

bear1 wrote: »

I wouldn't be prepared for extra taxes to take on something which used to belong to us.
Times have changed, for everyone and in no way would I pay more to have the North. This is my opinion

You'd be paying extra taxes to support the North. The North currently receives lots of money from the UK and Ireland.

bear1 · 03-01-2014 04:40PM

the_syco wrote: »

You'd be paying extra taxes to support the North. The North currently receives lots of money from the UK and Ireland.

The post however was made out that the general population here in ROI would be prepared to pay extra taxes to get NI back.
I'm simply saying I wouldn't but of course I have no control over that if it's passed in a referendum.
I didn't know though that the ROI is handing money over to the North.
Any figures?

Happyman42 · 03-01-2014 04:43PM

bear1 wrote: »

I didn't know though that the ROI is handing money over to the North.
Any figures?

Have a tour of the carparks of Asda and B&Q and look at numberplates.;)
The cost of partition to this island is unknown, there are many many variables to take into account.

P_1 · 03-01-2014 05:14PM

the_syco wrote: »

You'd be paying extra taxes to support the North. The North currently receives lots of money from the UK and Ireland.

It would be a brave/naive politician to raise that point in the context of irish politics mind

Karl Stein · 03-01-2014 06:28PM

Love this bit:

However, officials later noted that while moving half-a-million people -- mostly Catholics -- might be acceptable for a totalitarian regime, human rights arguments would be an obstacle.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/uk-officials-considered-walled-ghetto-for-catholics-29884724.html

Not that half a million people would have suffered from psychological trauma, violence and murder but that 'human rights arguments would be an obstacle'.

Despicable.

Happyman42 · 03-01-2014 06:33PM

Carlos Roca wrote: »

Love this bit:

Not that half a million people would have suffered from psychological trauma, violence and murder but that 'human rights arguments would be an obstacle'.

Despicable.

Pesky Human Rights! British government thinking hasn't really changed in centuries. Image is everything.

Allknowing · 03-01-2014 06:34PM

Including South Armagh....

Gee Thanks Maggie :-)

spank_inferno · 03-01-2014 06:37PM

I think Fermanagh moving over at least would have made some sense.

Only 65k people... Mostly catholic, nationalist.... And it would look better on a map.

spank_inferno · 03-01-2014 06:41PM

bear1 wrote: »

I didn't know though that the ROI is handing money over to the North.
Any figures?

Unsure of the exact amount but since Bertie's 1997 election victory it has been at least a couple of hundred million.... Mostly in small chunks with some largish transfers for capital projects.

hfallada · 03-01-2014 06:43PM

An Coilean wrote: »

Sorry, what? Can you back ths up?

I have had this discussion with my friends and in college and most young people don't view the people of Northern Ireland as Irish. I seriously doubt there is any stats of young Irish persons view of north Irish people. But unlike older generations, most young people have the view that citizens of NI are far more British than Irish.

Karl Stein · 03-01-2014 06:49PM

hfallada wrote: »

I have had this discussion with my friends and in college and most young people don't view the people of Northern Ireland as Irish. I seriously doubt there is any stats of young Irish persons view of north Irish people. But unlike older generations, most young people have the view that citizens of NI are far more British than Irish.

Short answer 'No' i.e. you cannot back it up.

This is the politics forum. Your chats with the company you keep do not constitute evidence of anything other than you hang out with people with bizarre views.

Tuco88 · 03-01-2014 07:13PM

Id love to see a UI, but being realistic its not going to happen anytime soon. The longer it goes, the more difficult it looks for me. Or is it already at the stage that the people of the NI are happy enough they way it is, or heading to. If it was to be done i would think changing single counties slowly, would work best starting with Fermanagh, derry.... maybe 2 - 3 years between each all depending.

VinLieger · 03-01-2014 08:55PM

harryr711 wrote: »

The majority of Irish people want unification, and according the an Irish Times poll would be prepared to pay extra taxes if necessary. I'm young, I see the six counties as Irish even if some of the residents consider themselves to be British. A single economy, with one tax system, legal system, etc. and ultimately one larger market is attractive for investors/businesses.

Yes and the giant cluster fvck that it would take to get anywhere near a viable and working United Ireland is worth it?

UK considered giving half of NI to ROI

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