Most capitalist action you can imagine.

errlloyd · 19-12-2013 04:06PM #1

I work as a contractor for a multi-national company in the tourism sector. (Makes it sound a lot better than it is). Anyway the company has a very small staff in Dublin which is a lead by a "manager". The CEO of this company is a bit of a paranoid, sociopathic maniac. So he often completely fires his staff and replaces them with people who will unquestioningly and ruthlessly do what he asks. It is not uncommon to hear of him asking his managers to fire people, just to test their loyalty - but that is not the most capitalist thing I have ever seen.

The most capitalist thing I have ever seen is just related and needed the context. Our internally promoted manager quit a few months back, and the company told us they were sending someone from abroad. Now someone they send in will inevitably get fired very quickly - I think they often move people here just to fire them. (We are a separately registered company, so they terminate their contract with our "Berlin" office and the company promises them a contract in Dublin, they move to Dublin, never get a contract and two weeks later get told they're fired, its pretty awful).

The most capitalist thing I have ever seen was when the new manager got announced, on the contractor FB page, we had an open betting pool on how long it would be till he got fired. The person who won is the most left wing, union loving, rights activist I know. Which is an amazing amount of horrible irony.

TL;DR: We had a bet in work on how long till someone got fired.

jimgoose · 19-12-2013 04:09PM

There's nothing particularly capitalist about that - your CEO is merely a lunatic.

catallus · 19-12-2013 04:09PM

What on earth is capitalist about that?: I've stated on here before that I believe that the placing of wagers on the outcome of events is one of the most noble and righteous endeavours that humanity can pursue, but to describe such action as capitalistic is just downright incorrect!

I am pie · 19-12-2013 04:12PM

It's not really capitalist though, is it? Amoral maybe, perhaps profit-greedy, ,aybe genuinely just the actions of a sociopath, but capitalism needn't mean flying flunkys over to Ireland for a pint and a whiskey before firing them.

Capitalism has been hijacked by large corporations, it should exist with effective checks and balances, the absence and destruction of effective checks and blances (unions, regulation etc) is what has de-railed capitalism, not capitalism itself.

ps..if you had analysed the most likely outcome, pooled resources and placed a bet on the most likely outcome after doing some sort of risk assessment and drawing up a contract, that would be more capitalist. Risk based investing governed by the rule of law.

Bubbaclaus · 19-12-2013 04:12PM

Why do you associate capitalism with that? Do you consider capitalism a bad thing?

Would you like to go back in a time machine and live in the USSR instead?

19-12-2013 04:13PM

That's nothing to do with capitalism

jimgoose · 19-12-2013 04:15PM

bluewolf wrote: »

That's nothing to do with capitalism

...except insofar as nowadays it seems to be fashionable, especially among folk of a certain age, to associate Capitalism with all evil from the Black-and-Tans to MRSA.

Stone Deaf 4evr · 19-12-2013 04:15PM

Is your boss Douglas Renholm?

errlloyd · 19-12-2013 04:15PM

OP here, I'm no nostalgic socialist. I don't think I particularly condemned anything that was happening in the OP.

I just think betting on how long it would take someone you've never met to lose their job is pretty politically inconsistent with being someone from a very socialist union based background. Sure I could be wrong.

Birneybau · 19-12-2013 04:15PM

Yeah, weird.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 19-12-2013 04:17PM

most capitalist thing I can imagine is someone having something I want and the two of us coming to an agreement where I give them some money and they give me what I want.

ooooh, scary. I better go donate to #occupy

jimgoose · 19-12-2013 04:17PM

errlloyd wrote: »

OP here, I'm no nostalgic socialist. I don't think I particularly condemned anything that was happening in the OP.

I just think better on how long it would take someone you've never met to lose their job is pretty politically inconsistent with being someone from a very socialist union based background. Sure I could be wrong.

Doesn't surprise me at all. The difference between a Capitalist and a Socialist is this: Poor-but-hopeful Capitalist sees a guy gliding down the road in a big Merc. He thinks to himself, Someday I'll have a big Merc just like that! Poor-but-hopeful Socialist sees the same thing and thinks to himself, Someday I'll have that bastard out of that, and he'll be standing on the road with his thumb up his arse, just like me!

burnhardlanger · 19-12-2013 04:18PM

Anyone outside of a multinational, Fortune 500esque corporation who refers to themselves as a CEO is a see you next tuesday.

Setun · 19-12-2013 04:19PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Why do you associate capitalism with that? Do you consider capitalism a bad thing?

Would you like to go back in a time machine and live in the USSR instead?

Frustrating how so many people imagine that the only alternative to capitalism is soviet-style communism.

The op's story is not particularly capitalistic, but capitalism does regularly reward those who have a reduced moral sensibility, and who regularly engage in such examples of sociopathic behaviour.

I am pie · 19-12-2013 04:20PM

To nit pick, union based needn't mean socialist per se. Unions should form an effective part of the capitalist system in ensuring that wealth is distributed equitably.

Duggy747 · 19-12-2013 04:23PM

When I think of Capitalism I always think of those 80's yuppies with the big grey phones, braces, and slicked-back hair while calling everyone "Ace"..............possibly coked out of it, too.

19-12-2013 04:24PM

I am pie wrote: »

To nit pick, union based needn't mean socialist per se. Unions should form an effective part of the capitalist system in ensuring that wealth is distributed equitably.

That's more like socialism

weisses · 19-12-2013 04:26PM

For me it would be Brian Lenihan with his bank guarantee

Birneybau · 19-12-2013 04:26PM

I am pie wrote: »

To nit pick, union based needn't mean socialist per se. Unions should form an effective part of the capitalist system in ensuring that wealth is distributed equitably.

That's just a contradiction in terms.

coolemon · 19-12-2013 04:27PM

There is no such thing as "more" or "less" capitalist.

The USSR was state-capitalist (wage labour, surplus value creation, class society, exclusive state property etc.) Fascism/corporatism is also form of capitalism Social democracy/welfare state is a form of capitalism.

Capitalism is a particular historical mode of production defined by relations to production and a given technological level/forces of production.

So no, it is not the most capitalist action I can imagine. All it is is plain old capitalism, or a variety of it.

Bubbaclaus · 19-12-2013 04:33PM

Lets get rid of capitalism and make everyone monetary equal so nobody has any motivation to work hard and achieve something!

Sounds Great!!

coolemon · 19-12-2013 04:38PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Lets get rid of capitalism and make everyone monetary equal so nobody has any motivation to work hard and achieve something!

Sounds Great!!

Socialism, or in particular communism, does not aim to make people monetary equal.

As for 'motivation' - if you ever did business studies for the junior cert you probably would have encountered Maslows hierarchy. Monetary accumulation is not a specific feature.

Bubbaclaus · 19-12-2013 04:40PM

coolemon wrote: »

Socialism, or in particular communism, does not aim to make people monetary equal.

As for 'motivation' - if you ever did business studies for the junior cert you probably would have encountered Maslows hierarchy. Monetary accumulation is not a specific feature.

Junior Cert business? I can't even remember what I had for breakfast

coolemon · 19-12-2013 04:42PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Junior Cert business? I can't even remember what I had for breakfast

Then you should probably inform yourself about 'motivation' before making wild and generally inaccurate assertions.

Ush1 · 19-12-2013 04:43PM

Everyone is capitalist really. We're all products of Darwinian evolution, the most capitalist system of all.

Friend Computer · 19-12-2013 04:47PM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Why do you associate capitalism with that? Do you consider capitalism a bad thing?

Would you like to go back in a time machine and live in the USSR instead?

Are you capable of making a reasonable comparison? USSR? How do you go from the OP to that extreme?

I'll tell you what I'd like - something that takes the best bits of both capitalism and socialism. **** this ideological worship of either one.

jimgoose wrote: »

Doesn't surprise me at all. The difference between a Capitalist and a Socialist is this: Poor-but-hopeful Capitalist sees a guy gliding down the road in a big Merc. He thinks to himself, Someday I'll have a big Merc just like that! Poor-but-hopeful Socialist sees the same thing and thinks to himself, Someday I'll have that bastard out of that, and he'll be standing on the road with his thumb up his arse, just like me!

Meanwhile, in the real world...

Bubbaclaus · 19-12-2013 04:47PM

coolemon wrote: »

Then you should probably inform yourself about 'motivation' before making wild and generally inaccurate assertions.

What do you mean? I was saying that the Junior Cert was so long ago that I can't remember it. the breakfast thing was a use of hyperbole to get my point across.

I don't think the babied down version of Junior Cert Business should be used as a reference point at all anyway.

Bubbaclaus · 19-12-2013 04:50PM

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

most capitalist thing I can imagine is someone having something I want and the two of us coming to an agreement where I give them some money and they give me what I want.

ooooh, scary. I better go donate to #occupy

The horror! I hope I never have to encounter this. You shouldn't be allowed to post things like that until after 9pm.

jimgoose wrote: »

Doesn't surprise me at all. The difference between a Capitalist and a Socialist is this: Poor-but-hopeful Capitalist sees a guy gliding down the road in a big Merc. He thinks to himself, Someday I'll have a big Merc just like that! Poor-but-hopeful Socialist sees the same thing and thinks to himself, Someday I'll have that bastard out of that, and he'll be standing on the road with his thumb up his arse, just like me!

Bingo.

anncoates · 19-12-2013 04:54PM

jimgoose wrote: »

The difference between a Capitalist and a Socialist is this: Poor-but-hopeful Capitalist sees a guy gliding down the road in a big Merc. He thinks to himself, Someday I'll have a big Merc just like that! Poor-but-hopeful Socialist sees the same thing and thinks to himself, Someday I'll have that bastard out of that, and he'll be standing on the road with his thumb up his arse, just like me!

Bill Cullen has kidnapped jmgoose and taken over his boards account.

KyussBishop · 19-12-2013 04:56PM

If people are saying Capitalism is about a deliberately unfair distribution of wealth, then why do people defending that, also defend excessive accumulation of wealth as people 'earning' it - implying it is fair?

This contradiction in narrative, seems to imply that it's only 'fair' when the wealth is going to the CEO's/higher-ups - if Capitalism is about 'unfair' distribution of wealth then, where is the 'unfair' part of distribution?

Bubbaclaus · 19-12-2013 04:58PM

KyussBishop wrote: »

If people are saying Capitalism is about a deliberately unfair distribution of wealth, then why do people defending that, also defend excessive accumulation of wealth as people 'earning' it - implying it is fair?

This contradiction in narrative, seems to imply that it's only 'fair' when the wealth is going to the CEO's/higher-ups.

It's completely unfair that more successful people get more wealth.

I mean, how dare they strive to achieve something in life!

Most capitalist action you can imagine.

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