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The Origin of Specious Nonsense. Twelve years on. Still going. Answer soon.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    koth wrote: »
    do you have actual scientific reasoning/evidence behind that comment?

    How long have you been posting here? :confused:


  • Moderators Posts: 52,035 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Jernal wrote: »
    How long have you been posting here? :confused:

    You'd think I'd know better by now :eek::eek::P

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    fwln.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    do you have actual scientific reasoning/evidence behind that comment?
    Looks like a horse's skull allright!!!!:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    That's a no, then.


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  • Moderators Posts: 52,035 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    Looks like a horse's skull allright!!!!:)

    were you confused by the question?

    To repeat, do you have any scientific reasoning/evidence to support your claim the skull is only 70 years old?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    J C wrote: »
    Looks like a horse's skull allright!!!!:)

    Erm

    yes
    horse2.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    koth wrote: »
    do you have actual scientific reasoning/evidence behind that comment?
    He needs his comment to be right. Is that good enough?

    MrP


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    His best* tactic is to post something so utterly pathetic and devoid of rational thought that people will look at his posts and quite rightly say "That's pathetic", and then whine that people are calling him names and use that as an excuse to keep posting things that are pathetic and devoid of rational thought.


    *"Best" is used in this case as a slightly more flattering alternative to "least terrible and idiotic".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    were you confused by the question?

    To repeat, do you have any scientific reasoning/evidence to support your claim the skull is only 70 years old?
    ... and do you have any evidence that a horse's skull, that looks like it could have been Shergar's ... is 700,000 years old??:)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭sephir0th


    I have a serious question here, which is more historically accurate - Noah's Ark, or Santa delivering all those presents?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    sephir0th wrote: »
    I have a serious question here, which is more historically accurate - Noah's Ark, or Santa delivering all those presents?
    What do you mean? Santa's not history, he'll be here in a couple of weeks!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 390 ✭✭sephir0th


    Absolam wrote: »
    What do you mean? Santa's not history, he'll be here in a couple of weeks!

    That's a great point, and I'm sure he'll be spotted on the RTE News on Christmas Eve!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    sephir0th wrote: »
    I have a serious question here, which is more historically accurate - Noah's Ark, or Santa delivering all those presents?
    Both are equally historically accurate ... Noah's Ark was a construction of Noah's mind that delivered salvation from a worldwide Flood ... and Santa is also a construction of the Human Mind that delivers presents to children worldwide.

    Happy Christmas!!!:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    J C wrote: »
    Both are equally historically accurate ... Noah's Ark was a construction of Noah's mind that delivered salvation from a worldwide Flood ... and Santa is also a construction of the Human Mind that delivers presents to children worldwide.

    Happy Christmas!!!:)

    So is Jesus, The only difference is that Santa has been seen more than Jesus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,247 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    J C wrote: »
    Noah's Ark was a construction of Noah's mind...

    Now we're getting close! Just one tiny leap [for mankind, but a giant leap for JC's mind] more...

    Hint: Do you think James Bond wrote the James Bond novels?


  • Moderators Posts: 52,035 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... and do you have any evidence that a horse's skull, that looks like it could have been Shergar's ... is 700,000 years old??:)

    So you've no evidence for your comment.
    Gene experts said Wednesday they've been able to unravel the genetic blueprint of a prehistoric horse that lived in Canada some 700,000 years ago, the oldest DNA mapping effort ever attempted.


    A dramatic extension of the limits of ancient DNA recovery, the advance re-creates a gene map, or genome, which is roughly 10 times older than the previous record-holder. The feat suggests that ancient DNA may be recoverable from frozen remains almost a million years old, raising the possibility of someday recovering even more ancient gene maps of humanity's primitive ancestors.


    Full article here

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,247 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    koth wrote: »
    So you've no evidence for your comment.

    Jesus, DNA was never mentioned in the bible!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    J C wrote: »
    ... and do you have any evidence that a horse's skull, that looks like it could have been Shergar's ... is 700,000 years old??:)

    Well, yes actually.

    The horse bone from which this DNA was recovered was taken from a dig in Thistle Creek in Yukon Territory

    YT_2005230.gif

    The bone was buried in permafrost in a region of tephra, fragmentary material resulting from volcanic eruptions. Using fission track dating, the researchers were able to date the find to 560-780,000 year ago.

    Gold Run tephra: a Middle Pleistocene stratigraphic and paleoenviromental marker across west-central Yukon Territory, Canada

    Ancient Permafrost and a Future, Warmer Arctic

    So, that's how we know that the horse fossil is 700,000 years old. So where's your evidence that its only 70 years old.

    sephir0th wrote: »
    I have a serious question here, which is more historically accurate - Noah's Ark, or Santa delivering all those presents?

    Santa, by a mile.

    At least in the Santa story we have a core element which we can verify historically. The modern Santa Claus is largely based on Sinterklaas, the Dutch figure.

    408px-Sinterklaas_2007.jpg

    Sinterklaas is, in turn, based on the figure of Saint Nicholas, albeit a heavily modified account of his life. Saint Nicholas or Nikolaos of Myra as he was originally known was a 4th century bishop in Turkey. He was known for secret gift-giving which is the essential element of Santa Claus. His existence and works are well attested by multiple independent sources. He was an attendee of the First Council of Nicaea as documented in Philip Schaff's "The Seven Ecumenical Councils". His early life is chronicled in Scott Ingram's "Greek Immigrants".

    By contrast, the story of Noah's ark is not supported by any historical evidence. No remains of the ark have ever been found. Noah is not attested to anywhere outside the bible and is instead an homage to Ziusudra, hero of the Sumerian myth. As I have detailed previously, most of the story of Ziusudra and its parallel tales Atrahasis and Gilgamesh were used as the basis for creating the Noah story in the first place.

    So, ultimately, the Santa Claus story is one which is heavily exaggerated but built on a core historical truth, whereas Noah is a myth at every level.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭gaynorvader


    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    {...}

    So, ultimately, the Santa Claus story is one which is heavily exaggerated but built on a core historical truth, whereas Noah is a myth at every level.

    Ah here now, credit where credit's due. I'd imagine people built boats that worked in the rain for transporting animals, so there's probably a small kernal of truth in there somewhere. ;)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    Well, yes actually.

    The horse bone from which this DNA was recovered was taken from a dig in Thistle Creek in Yukon Territory

    YT_2005230.gif

    The bone was buried in permafrost in a region of tephra, fragmentary material resulting from volcanic eruptions. Using fission track dating, the researchers were able to date the find to 560-780,000 year ago.

    Gold Run tephra: a Middle Pleistocene stratigraphic and paleoenviromental marker across west-central Yukon Territory, Canada

    Ancient Permafrost and a Future, Warmer Arctic

    So, that's how we know that the horse fossil is 700,000 years old. So where's your evidence that its only 70 years old.
    I don't believe a word of it. ... and this is what one of the abstracts that you linked to says :-

    "Gold Run tephra has been found at Thistle Creek, Sixtymile River, and the Klondike goldfields of west-central Yukon, Canada. It is a hornblende-bearing rhyolitic tephra with thicknesses of up to 10 cm at each site, suggesting a widespread distribution across interior Alaska and the Yukon Territory, given the long distance to the nearest volcanic centre. Old Crow, Flat Creek, and TA tephra beds are stratigraphically associated with Gold Run tephra at our study sites and have distinctive compositions. Gold Run tephra is not accommodated by the current classification scheme for late Cenozoic distal tephra beds in Alaska and the Yukon Territory — a scheme based on the physical and chemical attributes — so that its provenance is unknown."

    Which basically says that conventinal science hasn't a clue about how it formed or where it came from (or when it was laid down) ... using conventional geological assumptions.
    However, the widespread distribution of the gold tephra is consistent with the wordwide scale of Noah's Flood ... and it's accompanying widespread volcanicity and ability to move vast quantities of material and distribute it evenly over equally diverse areas ... ans so the provenance of the Gold Run tephra is known to Creation Geologists.:cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭Quatermain


    Except that it then goes on to say:
    An early-Middle Pleistocene age is supported by a glass fission-track age of 0.74 ± 0.06 Ma, a normal remanent magnetic polarity for the enclosing loess, and the presence of a late Irvingtonian faunal assemblage in the associated organic-rich silts at Thistle Creek. Hence, Gold Run tephra was deposited during the very early part of the Brunhes Chron, at which time a shrub tundra environment prevailed across west-central Yukon

    The Brunhes–Matuyama reversal, as I'm sure you're aware, occurred 780,000 years ago. Yeah. Real creation geology right there.

    And simply glancing at a particular discovery, complete with physical evidence and documentation, and saying "I don't believe a word of it" is not really conducive to good science.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    wrote:
    Originally Posted by J C
    Noah's Ark was a construction of Noah's mind...

    Pherekydes
    Now we're getting close! Just one tiny leap [for mankind, but a giant leap for JC's mind] more...
    It is true that all great (and not so great) Human endeavors and artefacts are a product of the Human Mind ... made concrete in reality by their construction under the direction of the Human Mind.:)

    Noah's Ark was one such artefact of Human ingenuity made real under the direction of Noah's Mind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,247 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    J C wrote: »
    Noah's Ark was one such artefact of Human ingenuity made real under the direction of Noah's Mind.

    As real as the hobbits of the Shire.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Quatermain wrote: »
    Except that it then goes on to say:

    And simply glancing at a particular discovery, complete with physical evidence and documentation, and saying "I don't believe a word of it" is not really conducive to good science.

    That's the thing about belief: A person can believe (or disbelieve, as in this case) absolutely anything but it won't have any effect on reality.

    It seems like a pretty low debating trick, if you ask me. Any evidence contradicting the YEC worldview can be shrugged off with "I don't believe". It's an evolution of the "La la la, I can't hear you" trick that you may remember from childhood.

    Grown-ups can say "Well, I believe ..." when presented with a well-reasoned and strong argument that they can't counter because "La la la, I can't hear you" sounds childish - even though both statements are essentially saying the same thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Quatermain wrote: »
    Except that it then goes on to say:

    The Brunhes–Matuyama reversal, as I'm sure you're aware, occurred 780,000 years ago. Yeah. Real creation geology right there.

    And simply glancing at a particular discovery, complete with physical evidence and documentation, and saying "I don't believe a word of it" is not really conducive to good science.
    There were numerous magnetic reversals during the worldwide catastrophic tectonic events that marked Noahs Flood ... and they occurred over days ... rather than millions of years, as uniformitarian speculative dating would have us believe.

    For example, Coe and Prevot found that a magnetic reversal occurred in less than 15 days during the formation of a thin basalt flow.
    Coe, R.S. and Prevot, M., 1989. Evidence suggesting extremely rapid field variation during a geomagnetic reversal. Earth and Planetary Science Letters, vol. 92, pp. 292- 298.
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v13/n3/fossil

    The sun has a magnetic reversal every 11 years and it 'flips' in less than a month and it is currently underway.
    ... no need for millions or billions of years.:)
    ... and if you don't believe me ... perhaps you will believe NASA



    http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2013/11/16/sun-magnetic-field-will-flip-upside-down-within-weeks-says-nasa/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    As real as the hobbits of the Shire.
    As real as the full scale model of Noah's Ark conceived in the mind of a Dutchman and now sitting at anchor in Utrecht.:)



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭Quatermain


    That paper doesn't really help your cause, given that Coe and Prevot gained said data from working on a place called Steen's Mountain. Steens mountain is one quarter basalt, formed around 15 million years ago. Again, not exactly creation geology.

    As for the hilariously titled "Answers in Genesis", I have pointed out how ludicrous they are as a source of information before. And really, you can't take people seriously when they claim that the tyrannosaurus rex was a vegetarian until sin entered the world.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭Quatermain


    Real accurate recreation, given that it included welding boats together. Must have left the bit out of the Bible where Noah picks up his goggles and acetylene torch.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,247 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Quatermain wrote: »
    That paper doesn't really help your cause, given that Coe and Prevot gained said data from working on a place called Steen's Mountain.

    Well, the paper JC linked to was actually written by Andrew Snelling, a real-life geologist working in the Australian mining industry,

    Very interesting guy, for all the wrong reasons, as you'd expect:

    http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/realsnelling.htm


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