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Oil boiler problems ? ?

  • 07-12-2013 02:31PM
    #1
    JABKELL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 ✭


    Hi, I'm have problems with a Potterton Statesman 65/85 oil boiler.
    The boiler is going into Lockout mode, when I try to start it after a few hours of non-use (can be as little as 2-3 hours).When I Push the restart button it seams the fuel-pump,motor and fan are not turning. I can get it restarted after about 15 minutes of fiddling with it.( bleeding the fuel- pump and lightly tapping the pump,motor and fan housing ).I removed the burner,removed the fuel-pump(which was turning freely)the motor seems to be turning freely as is the fan. I cleaned the fuel filter (no dirt inside really) and when re-installing half filled with Diptane fuel additive to see would it help only to find the boiler locked out again this morning. I have also tried another control module (the unit that the reset button is on) and I tried another electrical connector that goes onto the fuel pump.The fuel-pump was replaced 11 months ago.:confused:

    Anyone any ideas on what to check next ?


«134

Comments

  • #2
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    JABKELL wrote: »
    Hi, I'm have problems with a Potterton Statesman 65/85 oil boiler.
    The boiler is going into Lockout mode, when I try to start it after a few hours of non-use (can be as little as 2-3 hours).When I Push the restart button it seams the fuel-pump,motor and fan are not turning. I can get it restarted after about 15 minutes of fiddling with it.( bleeding the fuel- pump and lightly tapping the pump,motor and fan housing ).I removed the burner,removed the fuel-pump(which was turning freely)the motor seems to be turning freely as is the fan. I cleaned the fuel filter (no dirt inside really) and when re-installing half filled with Diptane fuel additive to see would it help only to find the boiler locked out again this morning. I have also tried another control module (the unit that the reset button is on) and I tried another electrical connector that goes onto the fuel pump.The fuel-pump was replaced 11 months ago.:confused:

    Anyone any ideas on what to check next ?

    Is the lockout button lighting up when it locks out? Do you get any sound at all when you press the button? If you leave it for half a day or so without fiddling with it, do you get any different results from pressing lockout? Do you know if you have power at the control box during lockout?

    I am going to be offline for a while, but answering those questions may help somebody to help you. I will check back later.


  • #3
    JABKELL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 ✭JABKELL


    Wearb wrote: »
    Is the lockout button lighting up when it locks out? Do you get any sound at all when you press the button? If you leave it for half a day or so without fiddling with it, do you get any different results from pressing lockout? Do you know if you have power at the control box during lockout?

    I am going to be offline for a while, but answering those questions may help somebody to help you. I will check back later.

    Thanks for the fast reply.
    The lockout light is on up when it locks out. Just getting a humming sound when I press the restart button and it doesn't matter how long you leave it. It won't start without fiddling with it. yes there is power at the control box during lockout.


  • #4
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    fiddling!! how? lol.

    Simplest thing to change and could well be your issue is the Capacitor, if that fails your back to fuell pump again i'm afraid.


  • #5
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    Billy Bunting wrote: »
    fiddling!! how? lol.

    Simplest thing to change and could well be your issue is the Capacitor, if that fails your back to fuell pump again i'm afraid.

    Id say it only the capacitor Billy, as he said it turns freely (pump) and his post indicates buzzing sound !

    JABKELL / OP
    Remove oil pump again,put burner on it's side, put spanner or big screwdriver into slot where the oil pump was in motor, switch on burner while holding motor shaft to test if motor is strong or weak, if weak replace capacitor.
    Small chance motor is goose but 95% of the time it's the capacitor if it's weak.

    Put a bit of 3 in 1 oil into the motor shaft while your at it.

    Failing that you might be better off calling service engineer as Billy said it could be the pump or just something else.

    Or it could be something as simple as not enough or no fuel getting to the burner, you would be amazed about who's has been cought out with that one before !

    Simple flow test:, loosen oil pipe to see if oil comes out strongly.




    ps. Where did you get a name like that ?


  • #6
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    JABKELL wrote: »
    Thanks for the fast reply.
    The lockout light is on up when it locks out. Just getting a humming sound when I press the restart button and it doesn't matter how long you leave it. It won't start without fiddling with it. yes there is power at the control box during lockout.

    Like Billy said, try capacitor.


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  • #7
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    If you have a decent multimeter that can measure farads, you can check the capacitance reading. On the side of the capacitor you will see a capacitance reading, such as 4.0uf. You should get a reading of within a +/-5% tolerance of this. If the reading is outside this, then the likely culprit is the capacitor.


  • #8
    JABKELL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 ✭JABKELL


    Wearb, Billy Bunting, scudo2 and shane0007 thanks for the reply's.

    I've been out for hours. Just left the boiler on the timer (coming on for 15 mins every hour). Just don't feel like having to get tools out to bleed and restart each time I want to put heating on. Seems to work, but I doubt it's very fuel efficient and totally unnecessary if nobody in the house and the weather is so mild.

    Am I right in saying the capacitor is the small white cylinder on the side of the motor ?

    scudo2
    when I had the fuel-pump off I checked the motor and the shaft turned freely.
    fuel supply is fine and the filter is clean.

    shane0007
    I have a fairly good multimeter, Could you explain how to get a capacitance reading.


  • #9
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    Not every multimeter can measure capacitance. The symbol for it is 2 T's lying on their sides opposite each other, like -II-.
    The capacitor is indeed the white cylinder type component. Pull off the end cap, remove the two wires & unscrew the capacitor. Hold the meter probes to the spades.


  • #10
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    JABKELL wrote: »
    Wearb, Billy Bunting, scudo2 and shane0007 thanks for the reply's.

    I've been out for hours. Just left the boiler on the timer (coming on for 15 mins every hour). Just don't feel like having to get tools out to bleed and restart each time I want to put heating on. Seems to work, but I doubt it's very fuel efficient and totally unnecessary if nobody in the house and the weather is so mild.

    Am I right in saying the capacitor is the small white cylinder on the side of the motor ?

    scudo2
    when I had the fuel-pump off I checked the motor and the shaft turned freely.
    fuel supply is fine and the filter is clean.

    shane0007
    I have a fairly good multimeter, Could you explain how to get a capacitance reading.

    You are right about it being an inefficient way to use it. Yes it is probably that small cylinder (photo?) It is strange that it runs when you do that and will not start when left longer. It needs investigating, but the capacitor is a cheap enough item to try anyway. Just be careful with the contacts, they can pack a wallop if charged. Your multimeter may not have a capacitance meter on it. It is measured in Micro Farads (symbol a bit like yF).

    Might just be a sticking pump. Was there any suggestions as to why the previous pump failed?


  • #11
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    JABKELL wrote: »
    Wearb, Billy Bunting, scudo2 and shane0007 thanks for the reply's.

    I've been out for hours. Just left the boiler on the timer (coming on for 15 mins every hour). Just don't feel like having to get tools out to bleed and restart each time I want to put heating on. Seems to work, but I doubt it's very fuel efficient and totally unnecessary if nobody in the house and the weather is so mild.

    Am I right in saying the capacitor is the small white cylinder on the side of the motor ?

    scudo2
    when I had the fuel-pump off I checked the motor and the shaft turned freely.
    fuel supply is fine and the filter is clean.

    shane0007
    I have a fairly good multimeter, Could you explain how to get a capacitance reading.

    Yes the capacitor is the small white cyl.
    Check how STRONG motor is as I suggested.
    Capacitor is what gives the motor it's strength.


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  • #12
    JABKELL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 ✭JABKELL


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Not every multimeter can measure capacitance. The symbol for it is 2 T's lying on their sides opposite each other, like -II-.
    The capacitor is indeed the white cylinder type component. Pull off the end cap, remove the two wires & unscrew the capacitor. Hold the meter probes to the spades.

    Yeah I just checked my multimeter, not as good as thought it was as it doesn't measure capacitance. I think i'll get a capacitor on Monday and try it.


  • #13
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,928 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    JABKELL wrote: »
    Yeah I just checked my multimeter, not as good as thought it was as it doesn't measure capacitance. I think i'll get a capacitor on Monday and try it.

    Take a pic of the face where all the symbols are on your multimeter


  • #14
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    scudo2 wrote: »
    Capacitor is what gives the motor it's strength.

    Capacitor's only job is to kick start the motor as they are brushless motors & there for there is not enough umph in 230v to turn the motor. The capacitor kick starts the motor & keeps it spinning.
    It's really just a battery/energy store that recharges itself by the motor running.


  • #15
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Capacitor's only job is to kick start the motor as they are brushless motors & there for there is not enough umph in 230v to turn the motor. The capacitor kick starts the motor & keeps it spinning.
    It's really just a battery/energy store that recharges itself by the motor running.
    If the capacitor is weak the motor is weak. FACT

    But what would I know after only doing about 15,000+ oil boiler services over the last 20 odd years.
    I only have to replace 200+ capacitor a year!
    As I said, a shure, what would I know.


  • #16
    jimf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭jimf


    scudo2 wrote: »
    If the capacitor is weak the motor is weak. FACT

    But what would I know after only doing about 15,000 oil boiler services over the last 20 odd years.
    I only have to replace 200+ capacitor a year!
    As I said, what would I know.

    Scudo where in the name of jaysus do you pull these figures out of based on your figures above you service 750 boilers pa so are you saying approx 30% of these have faulty capiators.


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    As I got no volume control on my off topic alarm and the red flashing light is attracting paying customers, can I kindly ask ye to stay on topic or start a new thread on 101 interesting facts on capacitors.


  • #18
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    scudo2 wrote: »
    If the capacitor is weak the motor is weak. FACT

    But what would I know after only doing about 15,000+ oil boiler services over the last 20 odd years.
    I only have to replace 200+ capacitor a year!
    As I said, a shure, what would I know.

    Wow, that's a lot of faulty capacitors within a 15 mile radius. 4 every week of the year. 4 oil pumps per week also. I would be having a word with the suppliers in that area 'cos I have never heard of as many faulty parts in a designated area in my whole life.
    Most oil boilers are extremely reliable, especially Riellos. They will run & run for years with little service & much neglect. But for some reason, they all seem to break down in their hundreds all within a 15 mile radius if where you live.

    You must be very proud....

    But hey, it's Saturday night, feck all on the Roger Melly & I am always game for a laugh!

    Hmmm....


  • #19
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    I'm just saying that I do a lot more oil boilers now than I did 20 years ago.

    If I come across a 4uf capacitor reading below 3.25 I replace it. Less call backs a few months later.I always test them. That's what I'm paid for.
    A capacitor is only the price of a nozzle (almost )
    5 capacitor a week is not a crazy amount giving the fact I'm full time on oil boilers + the amount I get through, thanks to a small area and a large population. Less travel = more work.
    I don't do anything else 12-13 hours a day x 6 this time of year. I leave home at 8am, get back at 9pm

    I haven't gone near a gas boiler in years and would never pretend that I know much about them.

    Haven't a clue about what's under the bonnet either!

    I'm not trying to be pig headed, and sorry if I come across as such,

    But I do know about oil boilers. But not industrial oil as it's not my field + as you can see, I'm kept going with what I specialised in. nice straight forward boilers + I keep a large stock of all burner parts = 1 call, no going off to get part and return journey.

    And I'm lucky I'm kept going at it.
    Cheers.


  • #20
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    shane0007 wrote: »
    Wow, that's a lot of faulty capacitors within a 15 mile radius. 4 every week of the year. 4 oil pumps per week also. I would be having a word with the suppliers in that area 'cos I have never heard of as many faulty parts in a designated area in my whole life.
    Most oil boilers are extremely reliable, especially Riellos. They will run & run for years with little service & much neglect. But for some reason, they all seem to break down in their hundreds all within a 15 mile radius if where you live.

    You must be very proud....

    But hey, it's Saturday night, feck all on the Roger Melly & I am always game for a laugh!

    Hmmm....
    Your Criticism is not appreciated,

    A well done on all the good work you do in Cork would sound nicer !!
    Have a joke, have a laugh, help others is fine, it's why were here, but not criticism please.

    We can correct each other if we've made a technical error.( as all inputs help ) But lets respect each others views in their field of expertise please.


  • #21
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    scudo2 wrote: »
    Criticism is not appreciated, well done on all the good work you do in Cork would sound nicer !!
    Have a joke, have a laugh, help others is fine, but not criticism please.

    We can correct each other if we've made a technical error. But lets respect each others views in their field of expertise please.

    Where's the criticism? I don't believe you & I am entitled to that, just as you are entitled to say what you say.
    I also disagreed with your take what capacitors do & their affect on motors.

    You seem to take everything to a whole new level, going off on tangents, throw in a bit weirdness & then look for thanks off all who will give it & if they don't, you start a array of threads asking for it.

    You began your escapades on Boards with a huge amount of my respect but you slowly etched it away with personal attacks, waffle & all round weirdness posts & PM's. This forum, for me, was a place of giving assistance & getting assistance. It became a very enjoyable hobby, however, your constant remarks & insults have fast eroded that enjoyment also.

    So hopefully, for disobeying our Mods instructions for continuing to take this thread off topic, I will receive my first & last ban & leave you to your wonderful expertise & knowledge & 200+ capacitor changes that really didn't need changing in the first instance.

    Thanks by PM only....


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  • #22
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    Sorry about this JARBELL
    Just check motor strength as I've explained, if its weak try a new capacitor.
    If not call good service engineer. Ask boiler manufacture or oil company for somebody local and good, or tell us where you live and one of us might be able to help.
    Let us know how you get on. Ta


  • #23
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'v asked nicely.

    NO MORE OFF TOPIC POSTS


  • #24
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    gary71 wrote: »
    I'v asked nicely.

    NO MORE OFF TOPIC POSTS

    Ok with me. Thanks Garry


  • #25
    agusta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,590 ✭✭✭agusta


    scudo2 wrote: »
    If the capacitor is weak the motor is weak. FACT

    But what would I know after only doing about 15,000+ oil boiler services over the last 20 odd years.
    I only have to replace 200+ capacitor a year!
    As I said, a sure, what would I know.
    how is a motor weak if a capacitor is weak,Could you please explain?,they are doing two different jobs!


  • #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MOD

    THE NEXT OFF TOPIC POST GETS A INFRACTION.

    IF YOU WISH TO DEBATE A CAPACITORS RELATIONSHIP TO A MOTOR PLEASE FEEL FREE TO START A NEW THREAD.


  • #27
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    Capacitor is weak means motor is weak?

    Hmmm somehow I don't think so.


  • #28
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    Gosh!! such a blowy ol day.
    JABKELL wrote: »
    I can get it restarted after about 15 minutes of fiddling with it.( bleeding the fuel- pump and lightly tapping the pump,motor and fan housing ).I removed the burner,removed the fuel-pump(which was turning freely)the motor seems to be turning freely as is the fan. I cleaned the fuel filter (no dirt inside really) and when re-installing half filled with Diptane fuel additive to see would it help only to find the boiler locked out again this morning. I have also tried another control module (the unit that the reset button is on) and I tried another electrical connector that goes onto the fuel pump.The fuel-pump was replaced 11 months ago.:confused:

    While the Capacitor is your best bet don't be thinking the pump is fine just because it turns freely, a free running pump can be solid after 10 minutes running time, then simply free running again once cold.

    Why did you replace the original pump. ?


  • #29
    jimf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭jimf


    Billy Bunting wrote: »
    Gosh!! such a blowy ol day.



    While the Capacitor is your best bet don't be thinking the pump is fine just because it turns freely, a free running pump can be solid after 10 minutes running time, then simply free running again once cold.

    Why did you replace the original pump. ?

    Would have to agree with billy


  • #30
    jimf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭jimf


    For your sake hope it is just a capicator but if not then pump would be next to eliminate after that motor bearings would also be a possibility. Ive had 3 riello 40 series with fcuked motor bearings this week


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  • #31
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,562 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    jimf wrote: »
    For your sake hope it is just a capicator but if not then pump would be next to eliminate after that motor bearings would also be a possibility. Ive had 3 riello 40 series with fcuked motor bearings this week

    Be glad it wasn't capacitors ;)
    Look at the trouble they can cause.

    Who would want Gary's job with us lot around stirring it :(


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