Judith Comic book and Season 4 Episode 8 SPOILERS

John_D80 · 03-12-2013 03:09PM #1

Comic book readers know that Judith's demise occurs at about this point relatively speaking, albeit in a very different manner.

An awful lot to be considered when weighing this one up. Main one for me is, if she is dead, wouldn't there be a Walker nearby eating her? They eat their prey where they find them. Also I dont think she would have already been consumed whole in such a short space of time. Although I do think the makers of the show would not want to show anything too gruesome in relation to a baby so it is hard to call.

Who is she with if she is alive? Tyreese annd the kids? Did someone from the bus run back into the prison after Maggie got off the bus?

I do think she is a reduntant character so without sounding too bad I think it would be better for future plotlines if she was dead. But I dont think she is.

Ideas?

GavRedKing · 03-12-2013 03:26PM

Didnt Rick and Carl kill 2 Z's after they turned to approach the baby carrier?

I voted other as I think with this show it really could be any scenario, its being pointed out that the straps were opened and a Z wouldnt have been able to do this but that wouldnt explain the blood if she was rescued by one of the girls.

My gut feeling is that shes dead and instead of showing a baby being eaten they've went with the blood in the carrier route.

Cork boy 55 · 03-12-2013 03:40PM

Shane's Daughter(so-called Judith) is in heaven with Shane and Lori.
The only outstanding Question is who is Carl's father?
It certainly is not Rick.

LOSTfan57 · 03-12-2013 04:07PM

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Shane's Daughter(so-called Judith) is in heaven with Shane and Lori.
The only outstanding Question is who is Carl's father?
It certainly is not Rick.

??????????????

5starpool · 03-12-2013 04:24PM

Heaven, heh.

John_D80 · 03-12-2013 05:05PM

If she's not dead, why keep her alive?? She doesn't serve any purpose as a character.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the theory among some fans of the TV show that babies born after the ZA aren't infected??

smcgiff · 03-12-2013 06:06PM

John_D80 wrote: »

Anyone else have any thoughts on the theory among some fans of the TV show that babies born after the ZA aren't infected??

That wouldn't make sense, unless it was supernatural in origin. That would be disappointing to say the least.

John_D80 · 03-12-2013 09:49PM

I cant see it being the case either but there is some decent arguments being made to back it up as a possibility on some forums. And some downright crazy ones I might add.

Don't get what you mean by saying it would have to be of supernatural origin though?

smcgiff · 03-12-2013 10:17PM

John_D80 wrote: »

Don't get what you mean by saying it would have to be of supernatural origin though?

How else can it be explained that new borns are immune? What are other websites saying?

John_D80 · 03-12-2013 10:28PM

I just didn't understand what you mean by supernatural.

One pretty popular theory that was put forward was that the virus died after an initial incubation period and the post-mortem transformation and re-animation is only a lingering side effect. The thinking being that it will die out completely when the last survivor of the ZA dies, and anyone born after a certain indeterminable point doesn't have it.

OctavarIan · 03-12-2013 10:31PM

I haven't read the comics, but from rewatching (and slowing down) the parts with Tyreese and the kids towards the end you can clearly see Tyreese running away from the area nearby Judith's chair while cradling something in his arms. My money is on it being Judith and not something else, like vegetables from the farm.

smcgiff · 03-12-2013 10:47PM

John_D80 wrote: »

I just didn't understand what you mean by supernatural.

One pretty popular theory that was put forward was that the virus died after an initial incubation period and the post-mortem transformation and re-animation is only a lingering side effect. The thinking being that it will die out completely when the last survivor of the ZA dies, and anyone born after a certain indeterminable point doesn't have it.

That doesn't make sense. If the active agent is dead then anyone living shouldn't turn into a zombie.

By supernatural I mean unless the people turning into Zombies is an act of god and anyone born afterwards is "forgiven".

I cannot think of a plausible reason as to how new borns would be immune from turning, but older people still turning into zombies.

PhiloCypher · 03-12-2013 10:51PM

One theory put forward by Screenrant is that Michonne has her and that they will use Judith to follow up on that telling moment from earlier in the season where she breaks down holding her, suggesting she may have had and lost a child. I'd be all for that personally if they choose to go down the route of having her survive.

John_D80 · 03-12-2013 11:35PM

smcgiff wrote: »

That doesn't make sense. If the active agent is dead then anyone living shouldn't turn into a zombie.

By supernatural I mean unless the people turning into Zombies is an act of god and anyone born afterwards is "forgiven".

I cannot think of a plausible reason as to how new borns would be immune from turning, but older people still turning into zombies.

Plausible? Eh this is a zombie apocolypse we are talking about here. You know that, right? Plausibility is kinda suspended for the 40 and some odd minutes each week this show is on. :-)

But if you want plausible, well every virus (or whatever this is) has characteristics. Is it totally impossible for post-mortem reanimation after the virus has expired to be a side effect of whatever this is?

I'm not saying I agree with the theory but it is out there. Very few people who read the comic books (like myself) pay much attention to it but it has been put forward by some fans of the TV show.

smcgiff · 03-12-2013 11:44PM

John_D80 wrote: »

Plausible? Eh this is a zombie apocolypse we are talking about here. You know that, right? Plausibility is kinda suspended for the 40 and some odd minutes each week this show is on. :-)

Of course, but you have to remain within the boundaries that the show sets itself.

It's been proposed that a zombie state has come around by a virus (I think).

To my mind it doesn't seem plausible that if it was caused by a virus that a new born would be immune, but others not zombies will become zombies once they die.

The only satisfactory solution to my mind would be an anti-dote.

But, if it does turn out as proposed then I'll go ho-hum, but it won't really take away my enjoyment of the series, I'll just add it to all the other plot holes that are there. I note them, but still enjoy the show.

Gbear · 04-12-2013 02:54AM

I suspect it was left ambiguous intentionally.

But if she's just dead it would be incredibly cheap.

I can't understand leaving the ambiguity for any other reason than because she's still alive.

Flippyfloppy · 04-12-2013 06:10AM

Gbear wrote: »

I suspect it was left ambiguous intentionally.

But if she's just dead it would be incredibly cheap.

I can't understand leaving the ambiguity for any other reason than because she's still alive.

Sophia the 2nd!!

5starpool · 04-12-2013 09:44AM

Gbear wrote: »

I suspect it was left ambiguous intentionally.

But if she's just dead it would be incredibly cheap.

I can't understand leaving the ambiguity for any other reason than because she's still alive.

I wouldn't be surprised if she is still alive, but hopefully for the sake of the plot she isn't. A very compelling reason for the ambiguity is just not wanting to show a baby being eaten or a babies leg being chewed on. It was left a bit too ambiguous though for her not to be alive I reckon, despite what happened in the comics.

smcgiff · 04-12-2013 11:01AM

5starpool wrote: »

despite what happened in the comics.

They do go out of their way, it seems, to show it's not the same narrative to the comics. Well, not exactly anyway :pac:

5starpool · 04-12-2013 11:06AM

Looking forward to seeing Abraham (John from Southland) introduced. As a general thing I'm guessing based on the comics the next few seasons will be something like:

Season 4 Part 2 - On the road with Abraham and reuniting with stragglers from the gang, and the journey North.
Season 5 - Find the new gated community outside DC, and life therein. Maybe meet Jesus.
Season 6 - Start of the Negan stuff perhaps?

I must re-read the comics actually. Currently reading the 3rd book in the Governor trilogy, which is pretty badly written overall I think, although some of the backstory is interesting.

username123 · 06-12-2013 04:41PM

smcgiff wrote: »

That doesn't make sense. If the active agent is dead then anyone living shouldn't turn into a zombie.

By supernatural I mean unless the people turning into Zombies is an act of god and anyone born afterwards is "forgiven".

I cannot think of a plausible reason as to how new borns would be immune from turning, but older people still turning into zombies.

I think that its plausible to suggest that there is some immunity.

It would be a rare thing for any virus to have 100% infection rate anyway, some people would have natural immunity due to small biological differences.

So perhaps some people who have been killed (by being eaten or other ways) but have not re-animated, but we just dont know about it.

And perhaps among the living, there are some people who are immune - but we just dont know it.

If living people with immunity had children, those children could be immune.

It wouldnt wreck the shows premise for me - in fact, Id find it more believable than 100% rate of infection.

I think Judith is with the alcoholic guy - he had a big gunshot wound so that would explain the blood in her carrier.

smcgiff · 06-12-2013 10:48PM

username123 wrote: »

It wouldnt wreck the shows premise for me - in fact, Id find it more believable than 100% rate of infection.

Don't think anyone would disagree with this. However, the point originally raised was that the next generation would be different. That's what would be hard to defend as being plausible.

username123 · 07-12-2013 12:46AM

smcgiff wrote: »

Don't think anyone would disagree with this. However, the point originally raised was that the next generation would be different. That's what would be hard to defend as being plausible.

Yeah I don't think all new borns could be immune. Or could they? I don't know enough about viruses, but could it be plausible that an airborne virus could do its business, infect everyone, then die out in the air due to weather, rain etc, and not transmit to new borns?

allanb49 · 07-12-2013 02:01PM

I'd say she's alive and that while at the moment a redundent character i'll summise as to say she has antibodies due to been born with the virus that can help cure it.

Or they could have her eaten by cannibals.

But i'd go with the cure to link back to the CDC back in the first episode.

5starpool · 08-12-2013 01:23PM

I think people are thinking too much about this. What would be the point of a baby being immune from infection? The only way they would know that is if she died and didn't reanimate which would be too late, or if she was bitten and didn't die, but a baby being bitten and surviving for any length of time isn't likely. Even for it to be any use they would have to get to a functional CDC type place and get her tested and then people work on that.

A cure would effectively be of limited use anyhow even if they were all magically injected with it. What use would it do? The zombies are already dead, they can't be rehumanised as their organs are rotted and dead. Immunity or cure isn't a place they are going to, at least any time soon I'd be sure although I would like to see a direction where they find out more about it.

Comics:

No mention of anything to do with this though in 10 years worth of comics (although only about 2 years or so of elapsed time).

username123 · 08-12-2013 02:58PM

5starpool wrote: »

I think people are thinking too much about this. What would be the point of a baby being immune from infection? The only way they would know that is if she died and didn't reanimate which would be too late, or if she was bitten and didn't die, but a baby being bitten and surviving for any length of time isn't likely. Even for it to be any use they would have to get to a functional CDC type place and get her tested and then people work on that.

Well it wouldnt be of any use to the particular baby if she was immune but then died, but obviously, the use of it would be to generate hope in a world of desolation.

Currently the post apocalyptic world holds no hope. Everyone is infected. When you die you turn. You cant get away from the dead - ie, even if you established a safe community, the whole thing could be ruined by Granpa Joe dying peacefully in his sleep and then reanimating and turning half the community into walkers.

So whats the point? Whats the point in trying to survive at all if there is no hope for the future?

I think at the moment, the hope is that they will find some hope! Immunity could be that hope.

LOSTfan57 · 08-12-2013 03:46PM

Kirkman has said there is no cure.........

username123 · 08-12-2013 05:21PM

LOSTfan57 wrote: »

Kirkman has said there is no cure.........

Yeah, that makes sense. But immunity isn't a cure.

LOSTfan57 · 08-12-2013 06:15PM

username123 wrote: »

Yeah, that makes sense. But immunity isn't a cure.

Whatever you want to call it no. Everyone dies and turns.

username123 · 08-12-2013 06:57PM

LOSTfan57 wrote: »

Whatever you want to call it no. Everyone dies and turns.

That makes it all a bit pointless then doesn't it?

LOSTfan57 · 09-12-2013 08:15AM

username123 wrote: »

That makes it all a bit pointless then doesn't it?

Makes what pointless?

Judith Comic book and Season 4 Episode 8 SPOILERS

So, what became of Judith? 54 votes

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Judith **Comic book and Season 4 Episode 8 SPOILERS**

So, what became of Judith? 54 votes

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Judith Comic book and Season 4 Episode 8 SPOILERS