Is atheism an ideology?

pauldla · 27-11-2013 08:51AM #1

Pursuant to a conversation on t'udder forum, I'd like to ask the godless heathens who gather here (and true believers as well, of course) to offer their opinion as to whether or not atheism could be considered an ideology.

My own opinion on the matter is 'no', as it is a POV on a single issue, and ideologies tend to be much more complex (a collection of positions, if you will). But I'm sure others hold contrary views, and I'd like to get a range of opinion.

Apologies if this is a duplicate: a very thorough 30 second search of the forum lead me to conclude that this question hasn't been polled before.

Nervous Wreck · 27-11-2013 08:59AM

Atheism could be considered an ideology but only to the same extent as not liking peanut butter could.

smacl · 27-11-2013 09:02AM

I also went for no. For me atheism is little more than a narrowing of what you find credible. Outside of that, it doesn't preclude you from having one or more ideological or philosophical leanings out a vast number of possible choices.

Beruthiel · 27-11-2013 09:03AM

I would have thought no, it's the lack of one surely?

Pherekydes · 27-11-2013 09:16AM

Dictionary definition:

Ideology

1. the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group.
2. such a body of doctrine, myth, etc., with reference to some political and social plan, as that of fascism, along with the devices for putting it into operation.
3. Philosophy a. the study of the nature and origin of ideas.
b. a system that derives ideas exclusively from sensation.
4. theorizing of a visionary or impractical nature.

A more definite no from me, then.

nozzferrahhtoo · 27-11-2013 09:19AM

Likely Herr Nugent will be in soon to explain why he thinks it is, with arguments compelling enough to at least make you think if not agree.

But for me I think Atheism is the result of a world view, not a world view in itself, and I think some people too easily conflate the two.

My world view is that ideas should be at least partially substantiated before you adopt them.

The idea there is a god lacks even a modicum of substantiating arguments, evidence, data or reasoning. Therefore I do not adopt that idea.

So my "atheism" (Though I rarely, if ever, use that word to describe myself.) is a consequence of my world view rather than a world view in and of itself.

lazygal · 27-11-2013 09:24AM

I'm far too lazy to follow an ideology.

andy1249 · 27-11-2013 09:28AM

Pherekydes wrote: »

A more definite no from me, then.

From that definition , point one to me reads as a definite yes.

If ideology is taken to be a belief system that guides and individual then Atheism is indeed an ideology.

Cabaal · 27-11-2013 09:37AM

andy1249 wrote: »

From that definition , point one to me reads as a definite yes.

If ideology is taken to be a belief system that guides and individual then Atheism is indeed an ideology.

How exactly does not believing in a deity guide you? What are the commandments and readings that guide you're life?

It makes as much sense as looking at people that aren't into watching or taking part in any sporting event, but saying they are sporting fans.

andy1249 · 27-11-2013 09:48AM

If an ideology is taken to be a belief system , then what you do / dont believe constitutes your belief system.

That being the case , atheism is an ideology.

If you choose not to believe without evidence , then that constitutes part of your belief system , and is a personal "commandment" if you like , and most definitely constitutes part of an ideology.

Not believing in a Diety guides you away from the nonsense such beliefs propogate , and I cant see how that is not an ideology !

Pherekydes · 27-11-2013 09:54AM

andy1249 wrote: »

If an ideology is taken to be a belief system , then what you do / dont believe constitutes your belief system.

That being the case , atheism is an ideology.

Atheism is a lack of belief, so not an ideology.

I don't know why people can't grasp that simple fact: atheism is NOT a belief [system].

Bogwoppit · 27-11-2013 09:58AM

Atheism is a lack of belief, how can that be an ideology?

I don't believe in Santa Claus,does that mean my lack of belief in Santa Claus is an ideology?

Cabaal · 27-11-2013 10:03AM

andy1249 wrote: »

If an ideology is taken to be a belief system , then what you do / dont believe constitutes your belief system.

That being the case , atheism is an ideology.

If you choose not to believe without evidence , then that constitutes part of your belief system , and is a personal "commandment" if you like , and most definitely constitutes part of an ideology.

Not believing in a Diety guides you away from the nonsense such beliefs propogate , and I cant see how that is not an ideology !

err not its not

So now you're reading into it and your basically trying to force a round peg into a nice square box that you've constructed to fit your idea of what atheism is
:rolleyes:

So not having a belief creates a commandment, just the one?
Doesn't really fit this

he body of doctrine, myth, symbol, etc., with reference to some political or cultural plan, as that of communism, along with the procedures for putting it into operation

smacl · 27-11-2013 10:05AM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

My world view is that ideas should be at least partially substantiated before you adopt them.

Sometimes it is useful to work from abstracts, even where you can't substantiate them with direct observations, string theory being a good example. Progression isn't always forward from where you're at, you also get results by making a leap of faith and and working your way backwards.

iDave · 27-11-2013 10:07AM

Secularism perhaps but not atheism. Theres no one singular voice in atheism aiming for the same goal. Everyone has an opinion on certain issues but they can differ unlike religious, political or economic viewpoints whose followers tend to all have very similar opinions.

nozzferrahhtoo · 27-11-2013 10:27AM

smacl wrote: »

Sometimes it is useful to work from abstracts, even where you can't substantiate them with direct observations, string theory being a good example. Progression isn't always forward from where you're at, you also get results by making a leap of faith and and working your way backwards.

This would appear to just be a distinction between the actual adoption of ideas as true.... and how one works. I am more than happy to be more abstract when working on ideas or concepts or the like. But I will not adopt any idea as actually being true or likely until such time as it has substantiation.

So I do not think we disagree, we are just talking about different stages in the overall process.

Sarky · 27-11-2013 10:30AM

Atheism an ideology?

Heh, that does sound like the kind of thing that'd come out of the other place. I bet some of them try to call it an ethos as well to make them feel better.

Delirium · 27-11-2013 11:36AM

No, it's not.

Any time I've seen it suggested that it is, it's usually someone on the theistic side attempting to suggest hypocrisy on an atheists thinking/stance.

Generally this is a result of someone conflating secularism/science/<insert other topic here> with atheism. E.g. supporting secularism in schools is "imposing your irreligious/atheistic ideology on children".

Czarcasm · 27-11-2013 11:50AM

pauldla wrote: »

Pursuant to a conversation on t'udder forum, I'd like to ask the godless heathens who gather here (and true believers as well, of course) to offer their opinion as to whether or not atheism could be considered an ideology.

My own opinion on the matter is 'no', as it is a POV on a single issue, and ideologies tend to be much more complex (a collection of positions, if you will). But I'm sure others hold contrary views, and I'd like to get a range of opinion.

Apologies if this is a duplicate: a very thorough 30 second search of the forum lead me to conclude that this question hasn't been polled before.

This would be my understanding of Atheism also. It's just a lack of belief in a deity. As I said in another thread -

Czarcasm wrote: »

The bolded bit there, is my understanding of Atheism, nothing more, nothing less. Now, I know what you mean by people with many different agendas trying to pull in all sorts of ideas about social philosophy under the term "atheism" and try to make Atheism some sort of humanitarian ideal that separates them from, well, atheists who they perceive to be individuals of a lesser intellect or lesser "enlightened" individuals, and that's what I understand to be "atheism+" (In other words, a ball of shìte for a minority of atheists who think they're better than everyone else), but no, that wouldn't be the definition of Atheism for me at all. Atheism stands on it's own as a concept - a lack of belief in a deity. Anything else is just people just looking to segregate themselves from mainstream Atheism - elitists, if you will.

I suppose different people will form their lack of belief in a deity in different ways is the thing -

For some people, they used the scientific method to eliminate all other possibilities.

For some people it was a rejection of religion, a sort of two fingers to established religions, or the religion into which they were indoctrinated.

And then there are the people who just never gave a ****. They had no interest in questioning the existence of a deity because for them they never felt the need to prove something didn't exist. The notion itself even sounds ridiculous so it's just something they wouldn't even entertain as they know religion is a man-made construct.

gaynorvader · 27-11-2013 11:58AM

andy1249 wrote: »

{...}

If you choose not to believe without evidence , then that constitutes part of your belief system , and is a personal "commandment" if you like , and most definitely constitutes part of an ideology.

{...}

This is possibly the most ridiculous statement I've ever read. If you don't have evidence, you shouldn't believe. Otherwise you're just going to end up believing everything you ever hear. Harry Potter, the Grinch, Gandalf, Xavier, unicorns, Odin, Zeus, zombies are all real, I mean, there's no evidence for them, right?

oscarBravo · 27-11-2013 12:07PM

andy1249 wrote: »

If an ideology is taken to be a belief system , then what you do / dont believe constitutes your belief system.

Logic fail. A belief system can't logically be constructed from things you don't believe. That's a disbelief system (to coin a phrase).

If you're going to argue that an ideology is either a belief or a disbelief system, you're going to have to explain that assertion - but as it stands, it's not what you said, so you made an unwarranted logical leap in your first sentence.

[-0-] · 27-11-2013 01:29PM

It's not.

Bannasidhe · 27-11-2013 03:23PM

I am ideologically opposed to having an ideology therefore it cannot be.

I also do not have a 'gay lifestyle' even though some people insist I do. I have a life and I am gay.

Turtwig · 27-11-2013 03:37PM

Atheism is at it's core a singular position. Just like theism. Neither of them by themselves can be ideologies. You can define to be so but you probably have some political motive there. A brick by itself does not make a wall but you could always change the definition of a wall to include a singular brick. But why do it? The definition for single brick wall becomes silly and redundant. Atheism and Theism are positions of belief. Alone they don't constitute anything else. When you add other beliefs to them they become part of an ideology.

The population of people who think otherwise has no bearing here. Nor does the population of people who belong to an atheist or theist ideology. This is semantics maybe but I don't like it. It enables those in ideologies to include others who blatantly don't want any part in their ideology to be counted as their flock. We don't define Christianity by the Phelps family. We shouldn't define atheism by those groups of atheists. We should define definitions by their utility and pragmatism for speaking and conveying concepts to one another. Otherwise let's also consider concrete blocks to be walls.

smacl · 27-11-2013 04:07PM

Jernal wrote: »

Atheism is at it's core a singular position. Just like theism. Neither of them by themselves can be ideologies.

While this is true, as I understand it the vast majority of theists subscribe to one of the major world religions, which invariably brings with it baggage that goes beyond the simple notion of belief in a God or gods. For example, Christians follow in the teachings of Jesus Christ to a greater or lesser extent, which includes prescribed ethics such as the ten commandments. I don't believe the same can be said of atheists, insofar they form a much looser heterogeneous group.

Turtwig · 27-11-2013 04:11PM

smacl wrote: »

While this is true, as I understand it the vast majority of theists subscribe to one of the major world religions, which invariably brings with it baggage that goes beyond the simple notion of belief in a God or gods. For example, Christians follow in the teachings of Jesus Christ to a greater or lesser extent, which includes prescribed ethics such as the ten commandments. I don't believe the same can be said of atheists, insofar they form a much looser heterogeneous group.

Yeah but even if 99.999999999% of theists follow Jesus Christ you still need a word for the theist that only believes in God. Otherwise you basically have to call someone a theist and then add the caveat that they just believe in God. Which makes it redundant because Christianity is a more appropriate term for followers of Jesus Christ they just happen to be theist as well. It's bit like calling the car engine a Car. The engine is part of the car and most cars have engines but that doesn't mean a car is an engine. Regardless of whether all car have engines or not. (Replace belief for engine and car for ideology.)

Absoluvely · 27-11-2013 04:46PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

Atheism is a lack of belief[system].

Bogwoppit wrote: »

Atheism is a lack of belief

Czarcasm wrote: »

It's just a lack of belief in a deity.

I agree, but just to be extra pedantic, I would use the word absence instead of lack.

Lack suggests an insufficiency or deficiency. Absence means nonpresence.

robindch · 27-11-2013 04:54PM

Absoluvely wrote: »

[...] just to be extra pedantic [...]

Hell, that's what A+A is for!

Absoluvely · 27-11-2013 05:00PM

robindch wrote: »

Hell, that's what A+A is for!

Nice double entendre there

wretcheddomain · 27-11-2013 09:33PM

I would imagine some would argue that, by extension, atheism could be considered an ideology.

For instance, if you don't believe in God then, by extension, you must believe that morality does not come from Gods. This can play a role in society as individuals who adhere to such a view may criticise a constitution which contains even the mention of a God. Thus, secularism will also be linked to atheism. You get the message by now...

I'm not adhering to that view, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

I assume this will be the view adopted by the Nugentiles.

lazygal · 27-11-2013 09:36PM

If it is an ideology, do I have to do anything? I'm rather busy as it is.

Is atheism an ideology?

Is atheism an ideology? 129 votes

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