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Unlimited Substitutions in Soccer

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Comments

  • #32
    roanoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭roanoke


    dfx- wrote: »
    Bad memories of England friendlies back under Eriksson, 11 subs at halftime.

    I think the best one I ever saw was one Ireland v Russia 2002. They subbed the entire team and then subbed one of the subs for a total of 12.

    http://ie.soccerway.com/matches/2002/02/13/world/friendlies/ireland-republic/russia/633517/

    ==

    Also wrt to unlimited subs in general and the bigger teams having the advantage of a strong bench, I'm not sure if that would necessarily turn out that way?

    For instance, how many times have we seen a team full of international stars held 0-0 by a bunch of jouneymen for 80-85 minutes only for the inevitable goal to come in the dying minutes (or even seconds)?

    A lot of the so called minnow teams who lose games late on to the big boys seem be down to mental and physical fatigue due the chasing the ball for 55%-65% of the game.

    So for the sake of argument say Hull have a well balanced squad of journeymen, then even if all they have to bring on is 10 more Paul McShane's, that might be enough to help them hang on in the latter stages for a draw against a fresh opposition bench.


  • #33
    mitosis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭mitosis


    One of my peeves is the large bench. There ought to be a bench limit of three and two subs permitted. That, more than anything, would lend to even the gap between rich and poor clubs


  • #34
    764dak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭764dak


    GavRedKing wrote: »
    The only thing I'm not fond of is time wasting, every team does it when they're a goal up going into the last 5-10 mins but the ref usually say hes adding it on, we're told its 30 seconds per sub and at elast 30 seconds per goal by the time it hits the net and players celebrate and kick off again.

    I'd there must be 4 subs a game at least most weekends, often its 6, so thats 3mins there alone without allowing for goals or injuries so the token gesture of 4 mins that goes up added time most weekends is inaccurate I reckon.

    3 subs from a bench of 7 is perfect I reckon, unlimited subs would kill the game and would be like American football in some regards when you could bring on your set piece specailist when you've a chance and replace him as soon as play stops.
    dan1895 wrote: »
    Ian Harte would of approved of this.

    I like the rule in beach soccer and basketball where you have to take your own shots if you get fouled.


  • #35
    MaroonAndGreen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭MaroonAndGreen


    Unlimited substitutions would take away from the fascination of the tactical side of the game.

    I mean, a lot of debate can be stirred about what 3rd sub a manager is going to use etc.

    3 subs is just about right


  • #36
    764dak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭764dak


    Did anyone see the South Africa vs Spain match?


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  • #37
    ush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭ush


    764dak wrote: »
    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/07/soccers-tragic-flaw-made-a-farce-of-euro-cup-final.html

    Basketball, hockey, beach soccer and futsal have unlimited substitutions so why not soccer?

    Lets go multiball and 4 sets of goals.


  • #38
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    764dak wrote: »
    Did anyone see the South Africa vs Spain match?

    Yeah, i watched it.


  • #39
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,029 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    764dak wrote: »
    Did anyone see the South Africa vs Spain match?
    Too Tough To Die wrote: »
    Yeah, i watched it.

    And?


  • #40
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    Spain had used up all their substitutions when Valdes got injured, Arbeloa was all set to go in goals and then Spain tried to bring on Reina instead. The South African bench, who as i understood it should have say on whether or not Reina can come on after all the substitutions have been used protested against it but were overruled.

    According to the commentary, the fact that Spain used more substitutions than they were allowed downgrades the match from a friendly to a training match, meaning no player earns a cap for the game and the goal scored will not be included in the players stats.

    I'm not sure if the commentary team were correct in what they said though.


  • #41
    Neil3030
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Re: timewasting - why not do as they do in US sports and not stop the clock for substitutions?

    Basically the rule could be that once the ball goes out of play you can sub the players, but if play restarts in the meantime and a member of your team touches the ball before you only 11 players on the field, it's a foul.

    Another thing I simply can't understand is why they don't allow physios come on during play. FFS if they can do it in rugby they can do it in soccer. This would instantly remove all the timewasting you see with players feigning injury and reserve stoppages to genuine cases.


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  • #42
    roanoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭roanoke


    Too Tough To Die wrote: »


    According to the commentary, the fact that Spain used more substitutions than they were allowed downgrades the match from a friendly to a training match, meaning no player earns a cap for the game and the goal scored will not be included in the players stats.

    More importantly than that though is that a win (even a friendly) vs Spain is a great points bonus for a team in the FIFA rankings.

    http://mg.co.za/article/2013-11-20-bafana-could-lose-fifa-ranking-points-after-spain-win
    South Africa – currently ranked 61st in the world, 60 places behind the Spanish side – stand to gain more than 500 points if the result stands, which could see them rocket up the rankings.

    The article indicates that the SA manager didn't object to the sub but left it up to the referee to decide.

    I wonder are managers even aware of this rule? I must admit I hadn't heard it until just now. I mean that's actually knowledge that an international manager could use to his advantage in certain situations.

    Regardless though I agree with the SA position. If they lose the result and ranking points because of this I think it'll be pretty disgraceful. It's basically punishing a team for acting in the spirit of fair play.


  • #43
    death1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,365 ✭✭✭death1234567


    764dak wrote: »
    Basketball, hockey, beach soccer and futsal have unlimited substitutions so why not soccer?
    Because its a terrible idea, isn't practical and wouldn't add anything to the game.


  • #44
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    roanoke wrote: »
    More importantly than that though is that a win (even a friendly) vs Spain is a great points bonus for a team in the FIFA rankings.

    http://mg.co.za/article/2013-11-20-bafana-could-lose-fifa-ranking-points-after-spain-win



    The article indicates that the SA manager didn't object to the sub but left it up to the referee to decide.

    I wonder are managers even aware of this rule? I must admit I hadn't heard it until just now. I mean that's actually knowledge that an international manager could use to his advantage in certain situations.

    Regardless though I agree with the SA position. If they lose the result and ranking points because of this I think it'll be pretty disgraceful. It's basically punishing a team for acting in the spirit of fair play.

    I'm not sure about that, things got pretty heated between the benches and he was in the middle of it. Maybe he let the ref mediate when he made his way over to the sideline.


  • #45
    roanoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭roanoke


    Too Tough To Die wrote: »
    I'm not sure about that, things got pretty heated between the benches and he was in the middle of it. Maybe he let the ref mediate when he made his way over to the sideline.

    The article has him saying
    "They were coming to me and asking me if it was okay to bring the player on. I said that I didn't have a problem with that, I'm not the referee, I don't control the game."

    but then they also say....
    Bafana coach Gordon Igesund contested the substitution, while Spain's coach Vicente del Bosque said South Africa supported the decision and it was left to the referee's discretion.

    which seems to go against his quote, so I don't really know for sure. I decided to take his quote as being his own position on the matter.


  • #46
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    roanoke wrote: »
    The article has him saying



    but then they also say....



    which seems to go against his quote, so I don't really know for sure. I decided to take his quote as being his own position on the matter.

    The second quote is more in line with how it appeared to me watching the game. He looked quite pissed off at the time.


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    Another thing I simply can't understand is why they don't allow physios come on during play. FFS if they can do it in rugby they can do it in soccer. This would instantly remove all the timewasting you see with players feigning injury and reserve stoppages to genuine cases.

    I'm gonna keep banging the drum I have been for a while, anyone who requires medical attention other than for blood must be substituted. Someone who needs attention for a head injury shouldn't be allowed to carry on anyway. Someone who's being a little bitch until someone comes along with magic gloves would be able to run off whatever's meant to be wrong with them.


  • #48
    764dak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,849 ✭✭✭764dak


    FIFA to rule that South Africa’s 1-0 win over Spain never actually happened

    http://www.insidespanishfootball.com/87586/fifa-to-rule-that-south-africas-1-0-win-over-spain-never-actually-happened/

    Rubbish Spain had to cheat against South Africa.


  • #49
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,029 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    That's not how things work. You can't just cheat and then use that to take away another team's victory and ranking gain.

    Is it? Is this how bad it's got? Is football the new wrestling/boxing/cycling?


  • #50
    roanoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭roanoke


    It's funny how we frequently hear of teams getting fined/banned for fielding ineligible players etc. Yet Spain do something similar and they're actually rewarded?

    From a refereeing pov, what's going on here is even worse than Henry in 2009 imho. That was just something the ref missed in open play. The idea that refereeing team can't even stick to the clerical requirements of the fixture is a joke. This is right up there with Graham Poll booking Simunic three times in a game at the 2006 WC imho.

    Also using that "it's just a friendly" is no excuse either. Effectively there no longer are friendlies in international football anymore.

    Incidentally, Del Bosque has always struck me as a character who knows every trick in the book. I wouldn't be surprised if he knew full well what might happen in this situation.


  • #51
    dreamers75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    Only change that should happen is subs are rolled on as in no stoppage. You want someone off he runs off during play and another comes on only when the subbed player is off the pitch.

    Ref can control this easily.

    Makes subs tactical and required rather then timewasting exercises.


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  • #52
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    dreamers75 wrote: »
    Only change that should happen is subs are rolled on as in no stoppage. You want someone off he runs off during play and another comes on only when the subbed player is off the pitch.

    Ref can control this easily.

    Makes subs tactical and required rather then timewasting exercises.

    But then you wouldn't be able to give your star player his very own standing ovation as he comes off five minutes from time.


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