Intercity capacity reconfiguration

MGWR · 14-09-2013 03:50PM

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Changes in train fleet utilisation to save energy costs – IrishRail.ie

For Intercity services, Iarnród Éireann is to reconfigure the Intercity railcar fleet. Currently, the 234 carriages in the fleet are configured to form 48 three-carriage trains and 15 six-carriage trains. This has lead to capacity shortages on some services and oversupply on others. The fleet will be reconfigured to form 45 four-carriage trains and 18 three-carriage trains, allowing greater flexibility in train size, with 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 9 carriage Intercity trains possible as result by combining train sets together. These changes will be implemented on a phased basis by year end.

So, this means that there will no longer be any single 6-car sets; the only way to get a 6-car formation is two three cars? I'll miss the 6-car 22ks; always thought they are a very impressive sight.

This 3+4 fleet will allow for lots of interesting combinations from a trainspotting perspective. 4 car sets will also allow for improved services on the DSE. I also wonder what will happen to the 'First Class' and buffet carriages, how they will be split between the fleets. The buffet car especially will take a big chunk of seating capacity out of any 3 or 4 car set.

Very interesting times ahead for railcar gricers.

I wonder what this will cost the exchequer, though. With trailer cars, you could make a train any size merely by shunting and coupling/decoupling. And you'd only hear engine noise adjacent to (rather than underneath the floor of) the car nearest the engine, and still way quieter than an under-floor DMU motor.

Jamie2k9 · 14-09-2013 04:47PM

The dinning cart is only 18 seats smaller than other standard end on the 3 car sets.

4 car sets will have 198 standard seats and then the 36 first class. First class will be more less done away with so wouldn't worry about it or some of the first class 6 car sets will be back into six pieces at some stage in 2014 as they have way to many 4 car sets and not enough 3's and there for not being able to make up enough 6 car sets.

The general plans sounds good but they should of though about it more before deciding that all the fleet will be 4 or 3 car sets. I would keep 2 or 3 full 6 piece sets as they will be required a lot and now in many causes when a service needs 6 coaches it will end up with 7 as there just won't be enough sets or 3 to be put together.

corktina · 14-09-2013 05:42PM

6 piece formations can easily be achieved by creating more three cars by removing a vehicle from a four car.

If there is a drastic reduction in services, then there might well be enough ICR capacity to cover the entire (remaining) network

I hope that isn't the case.

Jamie2k9 · 14-09-2013 05:45PM

corktina wrote: »

6 piece formations can easily be achieved by creating more three cars by removing a vehicle from a four car.

If there is a drastic reduction in services, then there might well be enough ICR capacity to cover the entire (remaining) network

I hope that isn't the case.

Removing a coach but it will need to be put back into another set. There won't be any major cuts to intercity routes next year.

corktina · 14-09-2013 06:09PM

I doubt there will, too much of a political hot-potato.

LXFlyer · 14-09-2013 06:22PM

I would imagine that the 1st Class will still feature on the key business trains as at present and will be used on the Cork services that the ICRs take over.

As for service cuts - there have been no suggestions that will happen and I don't expect any to be honest.

kc56 · 14-09-2013 06:48PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The general plans sounds good but they should of though about it more before deciding that all the fleet will be 4 or 3 car sets. I would keep 2 or 3 full 6 piece sets as they will be required a lot and now in many causes when a service needs 6 coaches it will end up with 7 as there just won't be enough sets or 3 to be put together.

The whole idea is to run 4-car sets where at present they are using 2x3 or 6 car sets in situations where 6-cars are not fully utilized. There are many services that are overloaded at 3 but would be fine with 4 cars. At the same time, they will be able increase capacity on certain routes where 6-cars are insufficient. In effect by using 4-car units, they will free up some of 3-cars so I don't see there being an issue with a shortage of 3-car sets.

Jamie2k9 · 14-09-2013 07:26PM

The whole idea is to run 4-car sets where at present they are using 2x3 or 6 car sets in situations where 6-cars are not fully utilized. There are many services that are overloaded at 3 but would be fine with 4 cars. At the same time, they will be able increase capacity on certain routes where 6-cars are insufficient. In effect by using 4-car units, they will free up some of 3-cars so I don't see there being an issue with a shortage of 3-car sets.

I'm know what the idea is but what will happen is some services that are currently fine for 3 or 6 car sets will have to be increased to 4 or 7 car trains. They are taking to much flexibility away by have a load of 4 and very few 3. Some routes will have to keep 3 car trains such as Limerick shuttle and other lines such as Kerry mid week are fine with 3 car trains and schedules tend to be made with a set or 2 out of action for unexpected events. Rosslare and Sligo will keep some 3 car sets. Portlaoise commuter will have 2 sets.

Keeping two full 6 piece sets will allow 4 extra 3 car sets and there will be demand for 6 piece sets on the network.

funnyname · 15-09-2013 09:48PM

What about all the carriages parked up, shouldn't they be put to use?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0125/364417-train-carriages/

LXFlyer · 15-09-2013 10:43PM

funnyname wrote: »

What about all the carriages parked up, shouldn't they be put to use?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0125/364417-train-carriages/

They are being used - the sets are being rotated in and out of use.

end of the road · 16-09-2013 05:43PM

lxflyer wrote: »

They are being used - the sets are being rotated in and out of use.

shame their not doing that with the 26/27/28s, no excuse for the 2700s to be stored probably facing the breakers, they were working well in limerick, and thats from someone who suffered the horrid things on the rosslare line

corktina · 16-09-2013 06:05PM

lxflyer wrote: »

They are being used - the sets are being rotated in and out of use.

so, how many coaches are out of service at any given time?

LXFlyer · 16-09-2013 06:15PM

corktina wrote: »

so, how many coaches are out of service at any given time?

I don't know exact numbers, but they are being constantly rotated. Remember also that you will have maintenance spares as well so it's difficult to tell.

Captain Chaos · 16-09-2013 06:25PM

Well if it's anything like the DARTs they are not be being rotated in and out of service that often. For at least the last 6 weeks LHB DART sets 1, 38 and 40 have not turned a wheel. 1 and 40 are coupled with 38 beside them and 40s LED tail lights are left on constantly.

corktina · 16-09-2013 06:50PM

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't know exact numbers, but they are being constantly rotated. Remember also that you will have maintenance spares as well so it's difficult to tell.

anyone want to guesstimate? would it be 30 coaches perhaps?

LXFlyer · 16-09-2013 07:21PM

No it is not 30 coaches - that would be 10 3-car sets.

There is nothing like that being stored on rotation - it's more like 4 sets.

n0brain3r · 29-10-2013 01:28PM

Pretty sure I just spotted a 6+ car ICR passing Sallins for Newbridge but it wasn't made up of 3+4 or 3+6 it only had 2 driving cars both where manned. Anyone know was this another config being tested ?

dowlingm · 29-10-2013 02:55PM

n0brain3r wrote: »

Pretty sure I just spotted a 6+ car ICR passing Sallins for Newbridge but it wasn't made up of 3+4 or 3+6 it only had 2 driving cars both where manned. Anyone know was this another config being tested ?

That's supposedly not possible because of no B1 car...

dublinman1990 · 12-11-2013 04:38PM

I'd see that the ICR reconfiguration has begun recently on the Connolly to Rosslare line.

From within this past week some of the ICR should be configured now as 4 carriage trains in the mornings to be then increased to 5 carriage trains in the evenings.

On Monday of this week; I've seen a 4 carriage 22k train to Rosslare passing Seapoint at around 10am. The trains appearance on one side that morning looked filthy dirty with one of the additional carriages added to it only having the new logo not matching with the rest of the train only having it's old logo.

I know that the rebranding of the ICR's will take time as the months go on as IE will need to have money & the time to carry that work.

Also later on that day; there appeared to be a 5 carriage 22k passing Blackrock on it's way to Rosslare at around 5pm. The difference was that the 22k unit at the time looked nice & clean on the exterior as it may gotten a new repaint with new logos for definite.

Although I can't give you any train numbers as they weren't written down somewhere.

TheBandicoot · 12-11-2013 05:57PM

5 car sets? There aren't any of those, must have been a 4 car.

end of the road · 12-11-2013 06:32PM

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I'd see that the ICR reconfiguration has begun recently on the Connolly to Rosslare line.

From within this past week some of the ICR should be configured now as 4 carriage trains in the mornings to be then increased to 5 carriage trains in the evenings.

On Monday of this week; I've seen a 4 carriage 22k train to Rosslare passing Seapoint at around 10am. The trains appearance on one side that morning looked filthy dirty with one of the additional carriages added to it only having the new logo not matching with the rest of the train only having it's old logo.

I know that the rebranding of the ICR's will take time as the months go on as IE will need to have money & the time to carry that work.

Also later on that day; there appeared to be a 5 carriage 22k passing Blackrock on it's way to Rosslare at around 5pm. The difference was that the 22k unit at the time looked nice & clean on the exterior as it may gotten a new repaint with new logos for definite.

Although I can't give you any train numbers as they weren't written down somewhere.

heard about that myself, good news, hopefully this will mean an end to 29 k operation for good on this line, no excuse for it now and never was as far as i'm concerned but i wouldn't expect anything less from a company who's belief is that shiny new trains will sort out all their problems

LXFlyer · 12-11-2013 07:40PM

end of the road wrote: »

heard about that myself, good news, hopefully this will mean an end to 29 k operation for good on this line, no excuse for it now and never was as far as i'm concerned but i wouldn't expect anything less from a company who's belief is that shiny new trains will sort out all their problems

I wouldn't be that sure - there are still exactly the same number of sets around as there were before, and the same number of trains to operate, if not more (given that more Mark 4 sets are to be put into storage).

The number of sets in daily operation is being driven (if you'll pardon the pun) by the maintenance budget. That may not be enough to cover all of the workings.

end of the road · 12-11-2013 08:05PM

lxflyer wrote: »

I wouldn't be that sure - there are still exactly the same number of sets around as there were before, and the same number of trains to operate, if not more (given that more Mark 4 sets are to be put into storage).

The number of sets in daily operation is being driven (if you'll pardon the pun) by the maintenance budget. That may not be enough to cover all of the workings.

ah lx its all excuses from them and i and the rest of the passengers on long distance services out of connolly who have to put up with 29 k operation have had enough and are sick of them, their not our problem and infact just aren't good enough, rosslare and sligo are long distance services so therefore the people using these lines expect the proper trains running the services, people on these lines pay enough and are entitled to a good standard of service at all times like the services out of hueston and their just not getting it, getting it sometimes isn't good enough, get the ICRS off the m3 parkway, start using the KRP properly and put 29s doing the local services out of hueston which their designed for, long distance services on the connolly side always lose out and its not exceptable and it needs to change, ICRS on ICR routes and commuter stock on commuter routes, and as for more mark 4s going into storage, discraseful, irish rail haven't a clue how to manage their rolling stock and if they want passengers to stay with the railway they need to buck up their ideas fast

Jamie2k9 · 12-11-2013 08:11PM

end of the road wrote: »

ah lx its all excuses from them and i and the rest of the passengers on long distance services out of connolly who have to put up with 29 k operation have had enough and are sick of them, their not our problem and infact just aren't good enough, rosslare and sligo are long distance services so therefore the people using these lines expect the proper trains running the services, people on these lines pay enough and are entitled to a good standard of service at all times like the services out of hueston and their just not getting it, getting it sometimes isn't good enough, get the ICRS off the m3 parkway, start using the KRP properly and put 29s doing the local services out of hueston which their designed for, long distance services on the connolly side always lose out and its not exceptable and it needs to change, ICRS on ICR routes and commuter stock on commuter routes, and as for more mark 4s going into storage, discraseful, irish rail haven't a clue how to manage their rolling stock and if they want passengers to stay with the railway they need to buck up their ideas fast

The 22's on Portlaoise are more less scheduled around 22's visits to depot most of the time. They will still be running between Heuston and Portloaise weather they have passengers or not.

if not more (given that more Mark 4 sets are to be put into storage).

Won't be possible to store more Mark'4s unless they plan to replace the extra 22's that were being rotated in/out of service . Even with this sets will probably not be used Tue-Thur but will be required at weekends so could it be classed as "storage".

As it is Peak days require more Mark'4 to take over selected Cork services to allow capacity be boosted on 22 routes.

LXFlyer · 12-11-2013 08:19PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The 22's on Portlaoise are more less scheduled around 22's visits to depot most of the time. They will still be running between Heuston and Portloaise weather they have passengers or not.

Won't be possible to store more Mark'4s unless they plan to replace the extra 22's that were being rotated in/out of service . Even with this sets will probably not be used Tue-Thur but will be required at weekends so could it be classed as "storage".

As it is Peak days require more Mark'4 to take over selected Cork services to allow capacity be boosted on 22 routes.

I think that you may find that it has been posted elsewhere that the plan is to remove more Mark 4 sets. Only three sets are going to be in service.

Bear in mind that some trains that previously may have been 2 x 3 piece may become a single 4 piece, so additional sets to replace Mark 4 sets may be available. It may be that we will be back to maintenance spares with the 22k sets again.

Jamie2k9 · 12-11-2013 08:24PM

lxflyer wrote: »

I think that you may find that it has been posted elsewhere that the plan is to remove more Mark 4 sets (possibly on IRN).

Bear in mind that some trains that previously may have been 2 x 3 piece may become a single 4 piece, so additional sets to replace Mark 4 sets may be available.

Given the past few weeks there being many 4 piece sets, no services have had capacity cut on Fridays from Heuston, they have being using all 6 piece sets and 7 piece sets. No 4's on busy services so very little room for change.

LXFlyer · 12-11-2013 08:28PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Given the past few weeks there being many 4 piece sets, no services have had capacity cut on Fridays from Heuston, they have being using all 6 piece sets and 7 piece sets. No 4's on busy services so very little room for change.

As I posted above - only 3 Mark 4 sets are being retained in service.

Bear in mind that until now only the high capacity sets have been reconfigured - the Premier sets are only starting now.

Therefore, most of the capacity issues have been on the Connolly side so far. I would suggest that you will need to wait until more Premier sets have been reconfigured before making a judgement!

LXFlyer · 12-11-2013 08:29PM

end of the road wrote: »

ah lx its all excuses from them and i and the rest of the passengers on long distance services out of connolly who have to put up with 29 k operation have had enough and are sick of them, their not our problem and infact just aren't good enough, rosslare and sligo are long distance services so therefore the people using these lines expect the proper trains running the services, people on these lines pay enough and are entitled to a good standard of service at all times like the services out of hueston and their just not getting it, getting it sometimes isn't good enough, get the ICRS off the m3 parkway, start using the KRP properly and put 29s doing the local services out of hueston which their designed for, long distance services on the connolly side always lose out and its not exceptable and it needs to change, ICRS on ICR routes and commuter stock on commuter routes, and as for more mark 4s going into storage, discraseful, irish rail haven't a clue how to manage their rolling stock and if they want passengers to stay with the railway they need to buck up their ideas fast

Well if it bothers you that much, why do you still take the train?

Jamie2k9 · 12-11-2013 08:34PM

lxflyer wrote: »

As I posted above - only 3 Mark 4 sets are being retained in service.

Bear in mind that until now only the high capacity sets have been reconfigured - the Premier sets are only starting now.

Therefore, most of the capacity issues have been on the Connolly side so far. I would suggest that you will need to wait until more Premier sets have been reconfigured before making a judgement!

3 Mark 4 sets only required for Cork services currently, so no great loss I suppose. True about the PC sets but still not a lot of room for cuts whatever way you look at it. Everything at 3 out of Huston tens to be standing room only. They tried a 4 coach sets on a few Friday services earlier in the day and they were back to 6 piece sets the next week! This Friday will be the test with only 6 or 7 PC left, will report back on changes to sizes.

LXFlyer · 12-11-2013 08:44PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

3 Mark 4 sets only required for Cork services currently, so no great loss I suppose. True about the PC sets but still not a lot of room for cuts whatever way you look at it. Everything at 3 out of Huston tens to be standing room only. They tried a 4 coach sets on a few Friday services earlier in the day and they were back to 6 piece sets the next week! This Friday will be the test with only 6 or 7 PC left, will report back on changes to sizes.

That's not correct - there are currently 5 Mark 4 sets in operation.

Intercity capacity reconfiguration

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