Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1

Foxhound38 · 22-10-2013 10:20PM

shamrock55 wrote: »

They shouldnt even be in the country in the first place

If they are citizens of an EU country, then they have every legal entitlement to be here.

Still doesn't excuse kidnapping kids, if that's even what happened here... I wonder what's going to happen if it turns out something untoward was going on with this specific couple and the origins of the child - ye and I both know the tabloids would be well capable of whipping up a crusade against the Roma community and creating a very dangerous situation when their drooling readership go on the march!

Nodin · 22-10-2013 10:21PM

Kenny Logins wrote: »

An Irish family reported under suspicion of having an abducted child, lying about the birth, and producing a dodgy birth cert?

................

Neither of which is as of yet proven.

dj jarvis · 22-10-2013 10:22PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The distress caused by removing a child from their loving family.

Imagine this happened to an Irish child with an Irish family. How do you think they would feel?

you just are not getting this

feelings dont come into it , and it does not matter that they were a roma family,
this would not have even made the news if the case in Greece had not come to light,

and dont forget - the case in Greece was only found out after a cop questioned the status of the girl , as is his job , as is the Gardas job.

its attitudes like your that stop people from reporting suspicions, and some will be false , but even if 100 turn out not to be true , everyone of those 100 are worth it , if one child is found and returned to their family

what about the kidnapped child's family's feelings ??

shamrock55 · 22-10-2013 10:22PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Why? Presuming they are EU citizens then they have every right to be here.

What thell hell does this country gain by letting in roma gypsies,ill tell you nothing unless you think by them claiming every benefit known to man,begging,robbing, and pickpocketing somehow benefits this country of ours,

Roger_007 · 22-10-2013 10:22PM

Smidge wrote: »

Why would you hope that?
The guards were given information with relation to a child protection issue. They visited the family, we're not provided with enough information by the "parents" and removed the child until the situation can be clarified.

And you want the state to be sued for thousands?
For what?
For upholding legal obligation ?

I despair sometimes

Precisely what danger was this child in. Was she being abused or mistreated in any way? It would have been better to establish facts before action was taken given that there does not seem to have been immediate danger. Certainly they should have satisfied themselves she was not in danger but they removed the child without doing their checking first.

bear1 · 22-10-2013 10:23PM

I bet this is the tip of the iceberg.
I wonder how much worse it's going to be come January

Soft Falling Rain · 22-10-2013 10:23PM

Smidge wrote: »

So what you are saying is that only Irish families should be investigated in relation to child protection issues for fear of being labelled a racist should the case be unfounded?

I think the poster was suggesting that if this happened to an Irish family and was ultimately disproven, then there would be uproar. But if the roma family are found to have done nothing wrong, no-one will care, and will probably still be referred to as kidnappers.

Smidge · 22-10-2013 10:23PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The distress caused by removing a child from their loving family.

Imagine this happened to an Irish child with an Irish family. How do you think they would feel?

It happens all the time where there have been concerns raised regarding a child.
These concers could be of anything ranging from abuse to neglect and a whole list of other reasons.
The child is either returned or given a care order(emergency etc).

Why do you think that a child of Roma family should not be afforded the same standards of protection within the law of the state?

It's hurtful for EVERY family when child protective services get involved.
That includes Irish families too.

wexie · 22-10-2013 10:24PM

Nodin wrote: »

Neither of which is as of yet proven.

Well, we don't really know that as yet. However I'd imagine if the couple had produced a proper long form birth cert and perhaps a passport the guards would have had little grounds to take the little girl without a lot more investigation.

Nodin · 22-10-2013 10:26PM

wexie wrote: »

Well, we don't really know that as yet. However I'd imagine if the couple had produced a proper long form birth cert and perhaps a passport the guards would have had little grounds to take the little girl without a lot more investigation.

......one would hope so.

DebDynamite · 22-10-2013 10:26PM

Boombastic wrote: »

The most put upon..

Don't they have exclusive use of a free medical centre in waterford or Wexford? I remember reading an article about it..

Well, there's a free GP service in Tallaght for them anyway

http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/free-gp-service

dj jarvis · 22-10-2013 10:28PM

[QUOTE=Roger_007;87144548]Precisely what danger was this child in. Was she being abused or mistreated in any way? It would have been better to establish facts before action was taken given that there does not seem to have been immediate danger. Certainly they should have satisfied themselves she was not in danger but they removed the child without doing their checking first.[/QUOTE]

so you know she was not in danger ?
do you think , sitting in your chair typing you post , that you have more awareness of the situation than 2 garda , after questioning them for 2 hours ??

they dont do this on a whim

dumbfounding the attitude being shown here.

the cops were 100% correct in the action they took,
the real truth is going to be that everyone should be rejoicing if they were wrong,
because that will mean a poor child has not been held captive , away from their desperate and destroyed family.

strandroad · 22-10-2013 10:30PM

wexie wrote: »

Well, we don't really know that as yet. However I'd imagine if the couple had produced a proper long form birth cert and perhaps a passport the guards would have had little grounds to take the little girl without a lot more investigation.

They have produced her passport. It was not accepted as proof because the photo was not recent enough to be sure.

wexie · 22-10-2013 10:30PM

Nodin wrote: »

......one would hope so.

I know you'll probably disagree with me but it takes a lot for a gard and/or HSE worker to be given permission to take a child from it's parents.

Something will definitely have been fishy about this. Of course it may just turn out to be a misunderstanding or poor record keeping.

You could argue about whether or not more checks should have been done before the child was taken however if it turns out that she is indeed kidnapped or gotten by some nefarious means the whole forum would be full of people claiming 'it's absolutely disgraceful that poor little girl was left with those horrible criminals even a minute longer than necessary'

'Disgraceful Joe, disgraceful I tell ya'

Duvetdays · 22-10-2013 10:31PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Precisely what danger was this child in. Was she being abused or mistreated in any way? It would have been better to establish facts before action was taken given that there does not seem to have been immediate danger. Certainly they should have satisfied themselves she was not in danger but they removed the child without doing their checking first.

If they left the child there and said sure we'll come back tomorrow to check your paperwork the child and possibly the whole family would of vanished. The police spoke to them for 2hrs and in those 2hrs the paperwork and information they supplied wasn't satisfactory.

The people complaining that they shouldn't have taken her are the People who would also be complaining if the guards didn't remove her left her there they vanished into thin air and then found out she was abducted by them. Better to be safe then sorry.

Kenny Logins · 22-10-2013 10:31PM

Nodin wrote: »

Neither of which is as of yet proven.

Maybe The Coombe is lying?

wexie · 22-10-2013 10:33PM

mhge wrote: »

They have produced her passport. It was not accepted as proof because the photo was not recent enough to be sure.

Which could go either way I guess. I know if you saw the passport picture of my youngest who's now 4 she looks absolutely nothing like it, could have been any child. She was 5 weeks in the picture and the passport is valid for 5 years.

So I can see how that could work. It literally could have been any blond child, if the picture is young enough you'd have a hard time telling boy from girl.

Then again, it could just as easily be her passport.
I guess we'll have to wait and find out.

Nodin · 22-10-2013 10:33PM

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Maybe The Coombe is lying?

....seeing as we don't know exactly what was said, its currently unclear if anybody is lying. Currently we don't even have a DNA result.

Smidge · 22-10-2013 10:33PM

Duvetdays wrote: »

If they left the child there and said sure we'll come back tomorrow to check your paperwork the child and possibly the whole family would of vanished. The police spoke to them for 2hrs and in those 2hrs the paperwork and information they supplied wasn't satisfactory.

The people complaining that they shouldn't have taken her are the People who would also be complaining if the guards didn't remove her left her there they vanished into thin air and then found out she was abducted by them. Better to be safe then sorry.

You saved me the bother of replying :-)

falan · 22-10-2013 10:35PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Any links to support that claim please?

I can't link to anything but i watched a documentary about 4 or 5 years ago now about the Roma gypsies living in Italy...

One father was pimping out his own 14 year old son...He'd stand on the corner watching as his son got into cars with strange men...

About time these people were sent home, aside from this latest episode involving this child..What purpose do they serve apart from thieving and begging?

Kenny Logins · 22-10-2013 10:35PM

Nodin wrote: »

....seeing as we don't know exactly what was said, its currently unclear if anybody is lying. Currently we don't even have a DNA result.

I can only go on what was reported -

When gardaí went to their home in the west of the city to investigate the tip offs they had received, the couple told officers the girl was their biological daughter. The gardaí, from the child protection unit in Tallaght Garda station, sought a birth cert and passport. After a period of time the documents were produced.
However, investigating gardaí could not be sure of the authenticity of the birth cert. Their concerns were deepened after the couple gave a date of birthday for the child in early 2006 at Dublin’s Coombe Hospital, which had no record of the birth when checks were made

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/girl-taken-from-dublin-family-over-identity-concerns-1.1569292

Nodin · 22-10-2013 10:39PM

Kenny Logins wrote: »

I can only go on what was reported -

....given possible translation difficulties and the possibility of illiteracy, I'd rather give it a while.

dj jarvis · 22-10-2013 10:45PM

falan wrote: »

I can't link to anything but i watched a documentary about 4 or 5 years ago now about the Roma gypsies living in Italy...

One father was pimping out his own 14 year old son...He'd stand on the corner watching as his son got into cars with strange men...

About time these people were sent home, aside from this latest episode involving this child..What purpose do they serve apart from thieving and begging?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGDj0B5WQaA

here you are - i posted it earlier

falan · 22-10-2013 10:49PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGDj0B5WQaA

here you are - i posted it earlier

Thank you..I only did a quick reply to tayto lovers post, so missed it. Think i'll give it another watch...

LionelNashe · 22-10-2013 10:51PM

All we know about this Irish case is that a kid has been taken away from her family, but we don't know if she was taken away from her family by the Roma, years ago, or taken away from her family today by the guards while she was watching television.

I think the guards & the authorities showed good judgement in not charging anyone here, unlike the Greek case. If it turns out that the Greek kid was given to that Roma familiy by a Roma mother, for example, then there are no grounds for kidnapping accusations.

I wonder how many Irish people in this thread have one sibling or one child in their own family who is the only blonde haired blue eyed kid in the house - I'd say more than a few.

Kenny Logins · 22-10-2013 10:51PM

Nodin wrote: »

....given possible translation difficulties and the possibility of illiteracy, I'd rather give it a while.

..until the investigation (which appears to be justified IMHO) is complete? Yes.

ted1 · 22-10-2013 10:52PM

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Maybe The Coombe is lying?

Could have spelt the name wrong when doing a search.

dj jarvis · 22-10-2013 10:54PM

ted1 wrote: »

Could have spelt the name wrong when doing a search.

thats is very true - but they still had to act - paper work has to be 100% , even if its the cops mistake

ted1 · 22-10-2013 10:54PM

shamrock55 wrote: »

What thell hell does this country gain by letting in roma gypsies,ill tell you nothing unless you think by them claiming every benefit known to man,begging,robbing, and pickpocketing somehow benefits this country of ours,

A couple of billion euro in aid. Several hundred thousand jobs from FDI as a result of companies using Ireland to access the EU.

Remember that thing were a member if, it dies have its pros and cons

prettygurrly · 22-10-2013 10:57PM

ah I'd say they'd do more than just search a name. How about looking at all babies born on the day the Roma claim she was born. It wouldn't take long to work out that they had misspelt a name. No, the Coombe or whoever not finding the birth in this day and age is very strange. We will just have to wait and see...

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1