Why is it wrong to oppose mass immigration?

Chicken Ryan · 18-10-2013 7:32pm #1

I discovered during the week that 20% of all social welfare recipients are non-Irish nationals. I also discovered that a disproportionately large amount of all social welfare fraud is committed by non-Irish nationals. One example is this guy who is a former Garda reserve who fraudulently obtained 30,000 euro social welfare payments. So why is it that I cannot oppose mass immigration on these grounds and not been branded a racist?
Every time I pass the dole office there are many times more immigrants there than Irish nationals. Some even appear to be outside the Eurozone which amazes me.

Cody Pomeray · 18-10-2013 7:37pm

Chicken Ryan wrote: »

Every time I pass the dole office there are many times more immigrants there than Irish nationals. Some even appear to be outside the Eurozone which amazes me.

Chicken Ryan wrote: »

Every time I pass the dole office there are many times more immigrants there than Irish nationals. Some even appear to be outside the Eurozone which amazes me.

Chicken Ryan wrote: »

Every time I pass the dole office there are many times more immigrants there than Irish nationals. Some even appear to be outside the Eurozone which amazes me.

Go on... say it...?

Chicken Ryan · 18-10-2013 7:41pm

Say what?

jacksie66 · 18-10-2013 7:43pm

This post has been deleted.

Nodin · 18-10-2013 8:23pm

Chicken Ryan wrote: »

I also discovered that a disproportionately large amount of all social welfare fraud is committed by non-Irish nationals. . .........

Fascinating. You've a source for this, I trust?

clairefontaine · 18-10-2013 8:28pm

Its not immigration when the people are coming from within the EU.

OneOfThem Stumbled · 18-10-2013 10:13pm

You're asking three questions at once.

1. Why do (some?) people say that it's wrong to oppose mass immigration?

2. Is it wrong to oppose mass immigration?

3. Are immigrants more likely to be social welfare recipients or cheats?

You jump from 1. to 3. between the title and OP (mainly to provide a foundation to argue 2.)

However this thread has already got bogged down in the minute of 3. which is such a big and vague topic that, rather than providing evidence to back up a point, has opened an additional can of worms in what you already acknowledged might be a difficult subject.

And so a thread is stillborn.

Karl Stein · 18-10-2013 10:22pm

Is it wrong to oppose mass immigration?

It depends on what grounds.

Manassas61 · 19-10-2013 12:58am

It is the political agenda of the left wing contingent and political parties in the UK and the Irish Republic to use immigration for political reasons. The hope of building a vote base on it.

It's why Labour opened the doors to try and keep the Conservatives out. Too many of the UK parties are scared to debate the issue. Control is paramount. Flooding the country in harsh economic times for people is not only stupid but morally wrong.

Frank Grimes · 19-10-2013 1:03am

Manassas61 wrote: »

It is the political agenda of the left wing contingent and political parties in the UK and the Irish Republic to use immigration for political reasons. The hope of building a vote base on it.

I assume you can expand upon this, particularly in relation to the Irish context?

Cody Pomeray · 19-10-2013 1:09am

Chicken Ryan wrote: »

Say what?

In what way did they "appear to be [from] outside the Eurozone"?

Manassas61 · 19-10-2013 1:19am

Frank Grimes wrote: »

I assume you can expand upon this, particularly in relation to the Irish context?

I know there is many people critical of open immigration but too many people want to brush it under the carpet and forget about it and not even recognise it as an issue.

robertxxx · 19-10-2013 1:24am

Would the world be a better place if everybody claimed dole in their own country and not here.

Frank Grimes · 19-10-2013 1:37am

Manassas61 wrote: »

I know there is many people critical of open immigration but too many people want to brush it under the carpet and forget about it and not even recognise it as an issue.

So no then.

Geuze · 19-10-2013 1:51am

It's not wrong to oppose mass immigration. Plenty of people do.

An opinion on an issue can't be wrong or right.

To be wrong, it would have to be a crime, or if not a crime, then morally wrong.

It's not a crime to oppose mass immigration.

So oppose away.

Geuze · 19-10-2013 1:54am

Personally, I say we joined the EEC in 1973, free movement of labour, rules of the club, so we can't and shouldn't oppose EU people from coming and working here.

Plenty of Poles, etc. would have lost jobs in construction, etc., so you would expect them to be receiving JSB.

Now, non-EU workers should be severely restricted, as we have 13-14% unemployment. I can't understand how lots of shops in Dublin seem to employ Asians/Arabs. This should be explained.

I support very strong restrictions on non-EU workers.

jank · 19-10-2013 4:46am

The people should always have the right to say who is entering the country and what visas are given out however to say such a thing will get one labelled a racist by most of the media and many other do gooders. We are in the EU so we must apply EU law towards all would be residents of Ireland. I think more could be done to cut down on welfare cheats as we'll but we should cut down on all cheats equally. We could start with the travelling community but again the do gooders will be out in force. Don't forget that 50,000 people entered the country to find work last year so there must be some jobs going. What was the deal with Roma's sending millions offshore? Or was that Nigerians? The amount was huge which would indicate large scale illegal activities or at best work done in the black economy.

19-10-2013 4:56am

jank wrote: »

What was the deal with Roma's sending millions offshore? Or was that Nigerians?

Sure **** it, let's say it was all of them.

As for the dole queues, any time I'm down there's rarely more than 1 or 2 black people out of around 100 signing on (was over 150 one time) and not many other obviously "foreign" looking people.
It's odd now that believing completely in free movement and not having nationalist tendencies now makes someone a do-gooder but I guess that's just how things go.

FTA69 · 19-10-2013 11:01am

jank wrote: »

What was the deal with Roma's sending millions offshore? Or was that Nigerians?

Brilliant.

jank · 19-10-2013 12:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure **** it, let's say it was all of them.

.

My appolgies to the Romanians in the house.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nigerians-send-nearly-500m-a-year-home-from-ireland-29278045.html

NIGERIAN migrants here are now sending nearly half-a-billion euro back home each year. World Bank figures reveal that €468m in 'remittances' was sent from Ireland to Nigeria in 2011.

That's an average of more than €26,000 for each of the 17,642 Nigerian nationals in Ireland, including children.

This is far in excess of the sums sent home by Poles from Ireland. They sent $224m (€174m), even though there are more than 122,000 Polish people in the country.

That is a lot of money with a questionable source to be fair.

19-10-2013 12:39pm

Did you bother reading anything other than poor quality newspaper articles at the time?

Frank Grimes · 19-10-2013 12:41pm

jank wrote: »

My appolgies to the Romanians in the house.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nigerians-send-nearly-500m-a-year-home-from-ireland-29278045.html

That is a lot of money with a questionable source to be fair.

This was done to death on a thread on AH about it, the figure is essentially guess work on the part of the World Bank - there is no accurate figure of the amount of money Nigerians send back to Nigeria from Ireland.

jank · 19-10-2013 12:54pm

Do you dispute the stats?

Frank Grimes · 19-10-2013 1:01pm

jank wrote: »

Do you dispute the stats?

If you're asking me if I think the figure is accurate, no I do not. Common sense alone would suggest that something is not right with that number, leaving that aside the methodology they used does not give a total based on verifiable data.

goose2005 · 19-10-2013 5:41pm

Chicken Ryan wrote: »

I discovered during the week that 20% of all social welfare recipients are non-Irish nationals.

What's more surprising is that that's actually representative. One-fifth of the present population is foreign born. Which is really quite astonishing, Ireland went from having virtually no non-Irish to having 700,000 non-Irish

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/population/personsusuallyresidentandpresentinthestateoncensusnightclassifiedbyplaceofbirthandagegroup/

SoulandForm · 19-10-2013 6:09pm

There is nothing wrong with opposing mass immigration. Mass immigration often leads to a brain drain from so-called "third world countries" and lets remember how mass emmigration from Ireland allowed the ruling elites to by pass dealing with her structural problems. It also could be argued that mass immigration is used by capitalists to divide working class communities and drive down wages. That said a lot of people oppose immigration basically because they are racists.

19-10-2013 6:13pm

SoulandForm wrote: »

It also could be argued that mass immigration is used by capitalists to divide working class communities and drive down wages.

What isn't? Allowing low-skilled immigration apparently means a race to the bottom. Allowing high-skilled immigration displaces people further down the wage scale which is a race to the bottom. Outsourcing jobs is a race to the bottom. The only thing that isn't a race to the bottom is keeping the poorer countries "in their place".

woodoo · 19-10-2013 8:34pm

Yep it sure is a mystery why it is so unpopular to hold this view OP. I have said it many times i think there is far too much immigration into Europe.

Here is a link to an article on the subject. http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/1017/world/20-of-unemployment-benefit-claimants-are-non-irish-246581.html

This mind control and fear people have of being labeled a racist if they are in any way worried about immigration is a quite sad. Its a soft tyranny. The media love it though and are responsible for peddling it to help them sell papers. They will jump on people like they did with Roy Hodgson this week. Its hysteria. Roy was brow beaten in to coming out and apologising for what he said even though he knew and most sensible people knew he wasn't being racist.

Nodin · 19-10-2013 9:03pm

woodoo wrote: »

Yep it sure is a mystery why it is so unpopular to hold this view OP. I have said it many times i think there is far too much immigration into Europe.

Here is a link to an article on the subject. http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/1017/world/20-of-unemployment-benefit-claimants-are-non-irish-246581.html

.

Whats that article to do with immigration into Europe?

wexie · 19-10-2013 9:10pm

jank wrote: »

Don't forget that 50,000 people entered the country to find work last year so there must be some jobs going.

There was? Last year? Are you sure? This country? As in Ireland?

(I had to check the date on this post to make sure it wasn't 2007)

jank · 20-10-2013 2:50am

Frank Grimes wrote: »

If you're asking me if I think the figure is accurate, no I do not. Common sense alone would suggest that something is not right with that number, leaving that aside the methodology they used does not give a total based on verifiable data.

Do we have other stats to prove this otherwise or is it just a gut feeling. I am not being obtuse but can you explain why its common sense dismiss the numbers?
Is it " I dont believe the numbers, * sticks head in sand *" or "the numbers are off because of x,y,z"

I admit the numbers are very very high which raised eyebrows but there must be a explanation for this. Think occam's razor.

Why is it wrong to oppose mass immigration?

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