BER from C3 to C1 cost and savings

turniton · 07-10-2013 10:51AM #1

Hi, I m looking at few properties and some are similar (size of House and Location) but with different prices (due to different reason. i.e condition mostly). what i really don t know is the cost of bringing a property from a C3 BER to C1 and the savings in the long run (2 properties i m looking at the moment, are 1 ground floor houses Floor Area: 130.9 Sq. Metres / 1,409 Sq. Feet)
thanks

Ray Palmer · 07-10-2013 11:25AM

The BER is not sufficient to let you gauge anything like that. Light bulb differences in the properties could nearly give you that difference.

You need to fully read the BER report to even have an idea.

It is just a rough guide and should not be taken as anything more than that.

turniton · 07-10-2013 11:41AM

sorry, let me see if i get it.. the cost of insulation, that will allow a property to go from a C3 to a C1 isn t massive so?

Moonbeam · 07-10-2013 11:45AM

it depends on why it is c3.
A more efficient boiler,triple glazing, anything like that could cause the difference.

I have a c1 house and it is small and terraced and it is so warm and so cheap to heat.

turniton · 07-10-2013 11:54AM

ok thanks for that. I m just trying to figure out differences and reasons and I m confused.
I ll try get full reports , in order to compare properly

Ray Palmer · 07-10-2013 11:58AM

turniton wrote: »

sorry, let me see if i get it.. the cost of insulation, that will allow a property to go from a C3 to a C1 isn t massive so?

The rating difference is negligible at that rate that you need to read the report to see why one is rated differently to the other.

Insulation could bring C3 to a B rating. The type of building and form of insulation would be a big factor. Changing the light bulbs/fittings could change the rating alone at C3 level.

Insulation could cost 10k + depending on the house and type of insulation. There are too many variables in play for anyone to give you an accurate answer.

hfallada · 07-10-2013 03:07PM

The BER system is a bit of a joke. Like putting in a few CFLs and claiming the smallest room in your house is your living can increase your BER rating. A far better indication of energy usage would requiring you to give 2/3 years of Gas and ESB bills when selling your home. This actually shows how much energy your house costs to heat and not a maybe with the BER system. Like you get a grant for heating control. Who actually uses heat control on radiators regularly?

OP if you want to save money replace your boiler with a condenser boiler and insulation your attic. These should cost about 2/2.5k but will make a sizable dent in your heating bill. The best way to save money is put a rubber seal around your hall door and draft guard at the bottom of it. I could get over how warm our hall was after doing it and it cost a whopping €10 to do.

Ray Palmer · 07-10-2013 03:59PM

In fairness we got external insulation on some property and it does make a massive difference. The house is much warmer and heating is down to about a quarter of what it was but much warmer. The sound difference is massive too.

We did also change our boiler to a condensing boiler and that was a big cost saving prior to the insulation.

BER ratings biggest problem is they use factory new ratings as the current rating. A 20 year old radiator that is rusting is not going to work very well. A double glazed window with windows that don't close correctly now are also not going to help.

Sunny Dayz · 07-10-2013 04:28PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The BER is not sufficient to let you gauge anything like that. Light bulb differences in the properties could nearly give you that difference.

You need to fully read the BER report to even have an idea.

It is just a rough guide and should not be taken as anything more than that.

Sorry to jump in on the thread - we are in the process of buying a house which is C3 and we received a copy of the BER certificate. But all we have is the one page certificate - are we entitled to request the full report and do we request this from the seller or from elsewhere?

Ray Palmer · 07-10-2013 04:35PM

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Sorry to jump in on the thread - we are in the process of buying a house which is C3 and we received a copy of the BER certificate. But all we have is the one page certificate - are we entitled to request the full report and do we request this from the seller or from elsewhere?

I don't think they are obliged to give it to you but you can ask. It depends on who did the BER. In fairness anything big that can be done will more likely than not be mentioned in the survey.

L1011 · 07-10-2013 04:36PM

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Sorry to jump in on the thread - we are in the process of buying a house which is C3 and we received a copy of the BER certificate. But all we have is the one page certificate - are we entitled to request the full report and do we request this from the seller or from elsewhere?

https://ndber.seai.ie/pass/ber/search.aspx

Should be sufficient details on the cert to pull the report.

Sunny Dayz · 07-10-2013 04:39PM

MYOB wrote: »

https://ndber.seai.ie/pass/ber/search.aspx

Should be sufficient details on the cert to pull the report.

Thanks I should be able to access those details later this evening!

Victor · 09-10-2013 04:07PM

Moved from Accommodation & Property

Moderator

blacktea · 09-10-2013 08:45PM

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

- are we entitled to request the full report and do we request this from the seller or from elsewhere?

yes you are entitled to the advisory report as well as the ber cert from whoever is selling the house, whether it be an agent or the owner etc.

What use it will be im not sure

caesarthechimp · 16-10-2013 09:42AM

turniton wrote: »

what i really don t know is the cost of bringing a property from a C3 BER to C1 and the savings in the long run ...Floor Area: 130.9 Sq. Metres

The difference in energy usage between the two grades is 50kWhr/sq metre/year, so that is 6545kWhr per year.
6545kWhr is 6545 units on an ESB bill, so around €1180 per year if all your energy use was at day rate electricity prices. With typical mixed use (say of gas,oil or night rate electricity too) its likely about half that.
For cost of upgrades, get some quotes.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Light bulb differences in the properties could nearly give you that difference. ....It is just a rough guide and should not be taken as anything more than that.

No way, unless your light bulbs are actually mini nuclear reactors generating the power for the property

MOTM · 16-10-2013 03:32PM

caesarthechimp wrote: »

The difference in energy usage between the two grades is 50kWhr/sq metre/year, so that is 6545kWhr per year.

caesarthechimp wrote: »

6545kWhr is 6545 units on an ESB bill, so around €1180 per year if all your energy use was at day rate electricity prices. With typical mixed use (say of gas,oil or night rate electricity too) its likely about half that.

Nope. The BER scale is based on primary energy (into the power station in the case of electricity) rather than delivered energy (into the home). If its 6545 kWh primary energy for electricity, at a primary energy factor of 2.42 (as per DEAP), then thats 2704kWh on your electricity bill. At 18c/unit that would be under €500 per year.

Similar concept applies for fossil fuels with 1.1 primary energy factor and lower fuel costs per kWh delivered.

BER from C3 to C1 cost and savings

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