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Is there a differance between the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA?

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  • #32
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Sean O'Callaghan has zero credibility. He's a raging alcoholic and has told packs of lies in order to cover up other actions he was involved in. You're simply attempting to stamp a crude sectarian label upon a very complex political conflict and scraping the barrel in order to provide "evidence" in order to do so.


  • #33
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    Poacher turned gamekeeper


    No, former IRA member turned informant, then fantasist.

    A claim from Willie Frazer, George Seawright, or Big Ian himself would have been more trustworthy than this clowns tbh.

    I have to agree with FTA69. Some serious barrell scraping from you here.


  • #34
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Banjo String wrote: »
    No, former IRA member turned informant, then fantasist.

    A claim from Willie Frazer, George Seawright, or Big Ian himself would have been more trustworthy than this clowns tbh.

    I have to agree with FTA69. Some serious barrell scraping from you here.

    The guy in question is the Irish version of Walid Shoebat (Palestinian who has made a fortune of American born-agains exposing "radical Islam and Arab anti-jewishness").


  • #35
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    The guy in question is the Irish version of Walid Shoebat (Palestinian who has made a fortune of American born-agains exposing "radical Islam and Arab anti-jewishness").


    I don't believe even Howard takes these claims seriously tbh.


  • #36
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    maccored wrote: »
    was that some kind of special, extra nice IRA?

    No, its just the IRA that has been in government in the republic ever since.


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  • #37
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Banjo String wrote: »
    I don't believe even Howard takes these claims seriously tbh.

    I wouldnt be too sure about that, plenty of the DUPed and fleggers take his word as Gospel- its obvious that a lot of his stuff was written with that audience in mind. Also interesting is that he opposes to the GFA and basically lines up with the TUV.


  • #38
    Howard Juneau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭Howard Juneau


    Banjo String wrote: »
    No, former IRA member turned informant, then fantasist.

    A claim from Willie Frazer, George Seawright, or Big Ian himself would have been more trustworthy than this clowns tbh.

    I have to agree with FTA69. Some serious barrell scraping from you here.

    Well, birds of a feather and all that.
    Callaghan was a man who killed on cold blood for the IRA, he was a hungerstriker & held up as a hero. Now, he's a traitor, a turncoat, a 'sexual pervert....I'm wondering, does the IRA attract that unstable mindset or is it being in the IRA that affects you so?


  • #39
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    Well, birds of a feather and all that.
    Callaghan was a man who killed on cold blood for the IRA, he was a hungerstriker & held up as a hero. Now, he's a traitor, a turncoat, a 'sexual pervert....I'm wondering, does the IRA attract that unstable mindset or is it being in the IRA that affects you so?

    He wasnt a hunger striker. By his own admission he left the PIRA in 1976.

    He was imprisoned after he turned himself in the 1980s.


  • #40
    Howard Juneau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭Howard Juneau


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    He wasnt a hunger striker. By his own admission he left the PIRA in 1976.

    He was imprisoned after he turned himself in the 1980s.

    He most certainly went on hunger strike


  • #41
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    He most certainly went on hunger strike

    When and where?


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  • #42
    Howard Juneau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭Howard Juneau


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    When and where?

    Do your own research


  • #43
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    Do your own research

    I have and he didnt- he doesnt claim to have.

    He claims he sabotaged the anti-H-Blocks campaign in Kerry during the Hunger Strikes.

    Very different.


  • #44
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    Do your own research

    You realize he was just 21 when he ceased to be an Provisional IRA volunteer?


  • #45
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    Do your own research

    Just looked at your profile and read the GAA posts- there is NO way you are from Northern Ireland.

    Why than are you siding with and putting forward the anti-GFA part of Unionism? Be a partitionist all you want but why go for the TUV camp over the Alliance camp?


  • #46
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    riffmongous wrote: »
    I think you may have overlooked a very important point that arises from their 'minor political differences', according to the description above the RIRA would have no ideological basis if NI were to become a part of Ireland and be assimilated into the current government whereas in that situation the CIRA would still be active as they dont recognise the current government of Ireland

    That is fantasy stuff. NI is not going to become part of Ireland this century and certainly not because of anything either of those terrorist organisations do so my point about minor political differences being immaterial still stands.


  • #47
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    maccored wrote: »
    was that some kind of special, extra nice IRA?

    That IRA had the backing of the majority of the people of island. Just because a organization uses the same name as another does not make them the same.


  • #48
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    first doyle wrote: »
    Irish Republicanism is just as much about opposing the southern state as it is about opposing the northern state.

    If you look at the formation of the Freestate you will see how much it was about hunting down Irish republicans and murdering them in cold blood.

    Ireland/The Republic of Ireland/The Freestate Government or whatever you want to call it rapped itself up in this myth that Ireland achieved independence in 1922 and through this process it invented a history which detached itself from a traditional path of national separatism.

    The only reason why republicans didn't take on the southern government in the second half of the 20th century was because it did not make military sense. It doesn't take away the fact that in many republican eyes the Freestate/26 county government in the south is an imposter state just like its northern counterpart and that's how republicans see it and that is the main reason why the CIRA exists.

    This video is very informative and offers an accurate portrayal of how things were played out in the 1920s then what people are thought of as 'their history'.

    Yawn, the Dublin government has no legitimacy, even though Sinn Fein as abolitionists campaigned in previous democratic elections and got close to 0% of the vote of the brainwashed Southern electorate. Really?


  • #49
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    They certainly don't care for them and the group before them in the PIRA killed lots of them. Terrorist see terrorist do. No difference at all.

    That's just rubbish. The PIRA never specifically targeted Protestant civilians, they would have let Protestants become Oglach's if they wanted to join. David Russell was a member who was a protestant.


  • #50
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    tdv123 wrote: »
    That's just rubbish. The PIRA never specifically targeted Protestant civilians, they would have let Protestants become Oglach's if they wanted to join. David Russell was a member who was a protestant.

    Uh Kingsmills? And you could argue the Shankhill fish shop (yes I know that it was used by the UDA), and you could also argue a good few other instances...Over all their campaign wasnt sectarian BUT its wasnt exactly immaculately not either.


  • #51
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    Godge wrote: »
    Yawn, the Dublin government has no legitimacy, even though Sinn Fein as abolitionists campaigned in previous democratic elections and got close to 0% of the vote of the brainwashed Southern electorate. Really?

    Yes actually. It's just the shinners strategy to recognize it until the ultimate goal is met.


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  • #52
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Uh Kingsmills? And you could argue the Shankhill fish shop (yes I know that it was used by the UDA), and you could also argue a good few other instances...Over all their campaign wasnt sectarian BUT its wasnt exactly immaculately not either.

    Kingsmill was carried out by a group of independent republicans using the name 'Republican Action Force', it certainly wasn't sanctioned by the Army council.

    I guess some of it might look sectarian because most of the security forces they killed were Protestants but that's only because there was hardly any Catholics working for the security forces. They certainly weren't attacked because of their religion.

    As disgusting as some of their campaign was I'd find it very hard to call it a sectarian campaign unlike the UVF or UFF who seemed to be proud of being sectarian.


  • #53
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    tdv123 wrote: »
    Kingsmill was carried out by a group of independent republicans using the name 'Republican Action Force', it certainly wasn't sanctioned by the Army council.

    I guess some of it might look sectarian because most of the security forces they killed were Protestants but that's only because there was hardly any Catholics working for the security forces. They certainly weren't attacked because of their religion.

    Just to be clear I dont buy into the argument about the killings of UDR or RUC as being sectarian.

    The guns used at Kingsmill were PIRA guns- we know that now. The Provisionals should come clean about that war crime as hardly anyone outside of their movement buys the story.

    Brendan Hughes in his autobiography is very honest about just how sectarian things got in Belfast in the mid-1970s. Why was Billy Mc Kay stood down by the PIRA?

    Im not labeling the PIRA's campaign as a whole sectarian- however there was a sectarian element.


  • #54
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    tdv123 wrote: »
    As disgusting as some of their campaign was I'd find it very hard to call it a sectarian campaign unlike the UVF or UFF who seemed to be proud of being sectarian.

    Im not comparing the PIRA to the UVF or UDA. They were completely different to them in essence.


  • #55
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Just to be clear I dont buy into the argument about the killings of UDR or RUC as being sectarian.

    The guns used at Kingsmill were PIRA guns- we know that now. The Provisionals should come clean about that war crime as hardly anyone outside of their movement buys the story.

    Brendan Hughes in his autobiography is very honest about just how sectarian things got in Belfast in the mid-1970s. Why was Billy Mc Kay stood down by the PIRA?

    Im not labeling the PIRA's campaign as a whole sectarian- however there was a sectarian element.

    Oh I know they were Provo's or ex-Provo's who carried it out alright but I meant the organization wasn't a sectarian one. One or two members who were in the ranks might have been but that couldn't class the whole organization as sectarian because of a few members who acted without permission.

    For example the members of the British Army who carried out Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy & the Springhill massacre I'm guessing either had a thing against Catholics or Irish people but that couldn't make the British Army a racist or sectarian organization if you see what I mean.


  • #56
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Im not comparing the PIRA to the UVF or UDA. They were completely different to them in essence.

    I know I'm just using the Loyalists ones for a example of what an actual sectarian organization looked like.


  • #57
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    Ah, attack someone for being a 'sexual pervert" not a murderer, interesting thinking there

    Like Gerry Adams brother? Though he is possibly both.


  • #58
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    tdv123 wrote: »
    Oh I know they were Provo's or ex-Provo's who carried it out alright but I meant the organization wasn't a sectarian one. One or two members who were in the ranks might have been but that couldn't class the whole organization as sectarian because of a few members who acted without permission.

    For example the members of the British Army who carried out Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy & the Springhill massacre I'm guessing either had a thing against Catholics or Irish people but that couldn't make the British Army a racist or sectarian organization if you see what I mean.

    The British Army as an organization was fundamentally if not sectarian than racist (though are Ulster Catholics a different race to Ulster Protestants?) and the present British Prime Minister has more or less admitted that when he said that 70 per cent of the UDA/UFF's intelligence came from within state forces- of course they crap at killing actual Provos so the question has to be asked why was information kept being fed them if they werent using it? The answer could well be that terrorizing populations sympathetic to insurgents to break the insurgents will was a British policy in colonial wars (interestingly enough a lot of the first generation of the UVF were veterans of those wars).

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/122560071/COUNTER-GANGS-A-history-of-undercover-military-units-in-Northern-Ireland-1971-1976

    However while overall I wouldnt call the PIRA sectarian they came out of a very sectarian society and it would be foolish to believe that all their volunteers were idealistic miny Wolfe Tones. Particularly in the early years of the conflict they were very indiscriminate about who they recruited.


  • #59
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    The British Army as an organization was fundamentally if not sectarian than racist (though are Ulster Catholics a different race to Ulster Protestants?) and the present British Prime Minister has more or less admitted that when he said that 70 per cent of the UDA/UFF's intelligence came from within state forces- of course they crap at killing actual Provos so the question has to be asked why was information kept being fed them if they werent using it? The answer could well be that terrorizing populations sympathetic to insurgents to break the insurgents will was a British policy in colonial wars (interestingly enough a lot of the first generation of the UVF were veterans of those wars).

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/122560071/COUNTER-GANGS-A-history-of-undercover-military-units-in-Northern-Ireland-1971-1976

    However while overall I wouldnt call the PIRA sectarian they came out of a very sectarian society and it would be foolish to believe that all their volunteers were idealistic miny Wolfe Tones. Particularly in the early years of the conflict they were very indiscriminate about who they recruited.

    Yeah there some good interesting points about the Brits. If it was there policy to terrorize the nationalist community to undermine support it didn't seem to work very well as the IRA attacks increased year by year from the late 80's until the 94 ceasefire. In all honesty the Provos gave them a good hiding on the battle fields.

    That's true also people who joined the Provos were motivated by a very different set of circumstances then the men of 1916 or the 1920's who didn't live in a sectarian divided state unlike the Northerners.


  • #60
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    Well, birds of a feather and all that.

    Callaghan was a man who killed on cold blood for the IRA,

    Agreed.
    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    he was a hungerstriker & held up as a hero.

    He was?
    I presume you half arsedly researched the man you're holding up in such high esteem?

    When/where/for what cause did he 'hungerstrike':confused:

    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    Now, he's a traitor, a turncoat, a 'sexual pervert....

    I would throw mentally unstable in there too possibly.
    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    I'm wondering, does the IRA attract that unstable mindset or is it being in the IRA that affects you so?

    Wait. I'm in the IRA now too:confused:

    you're certainly coming across as an unbiased, well researched poster Howard.


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  • #61
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,781 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    tdv123 wrote: »
    That IRA had the backing of the majority of the people of island. Just because a organization uses the same name as another does not make them the same.

    Thats new history that is. I suppose you'll be telling me the rising had vast public support too. I hate this rose tinted boll0cks about how the 'old' IRA were really nice and friendly and never hurt anyone, but the 'new' IRA are all nasty terrorists. Absolute fairytales. Its like Liam Lynch or Tom Barry never existed.


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