All-Ireland Football Final Maigh Eo vs Baile Átha Cliath

keeponhurling · 23-09-2013 09:11AM

aidan24326 wrote: »

Not necessarily. I mean in all honesty Mayo had little or no chance of working a goal from that position such was the wall of Dublin players in front of them.

It was worth taking a chance that the ref might let it run on past the 4 mins if Mayo had won possession from the kickout. It's a common misconception that the number of minutes injury time is a limit not to be surpassed. It isn't.

It's a minimum and the ref can add to it at his discretion to allow for subsitutions, time wasting etc. Unfortunately refs often don't and that makes it easy for teams to run down the clock.

The whole issue of timekeeping needs to be looked at. (but I'm not suggesting that it had any great bearing on today's result. The better team won on the day and were probably worth a bit more than the 1 point margin).

Yes, I think if Mayo had won the kick out they'd have had one last chance to work a point, similar to Clare hurlers last time.
Especially given the time wasted in the 4 mins injury time by cycnical tactical fouling, though O'Connor took his time with the last free too.
Cluxton took his time with the kick-out too.

I though McQuillan had an OK game though. It's a hard job being a referee, and I thought that while not getting everything right, he did reasonably well.

Timekeeping probably does need to be looked at though, it's a bit of a grey area these days.
Should time be added for excessive fouling? How long is reasonable to take a free kick, sideline, goal kick etc.? Should the ref have to tell O'Connor in that situation how long is left as it affects his decision?

intellectual dosser · 23-09-2013 09:13AM

When a team drops three shots short into the keepers hands in the first half of an All Ireland final you'd normally be thinking that they couldn't go on to win Sam, but Mayo just didnt do enough, and as painful as it is for Mayo players and supporters - they didn't do themselves justice yesterday IMO. It was a strange game.

As for the referee, there was two scorable frees he didn't give Mayo in the second half. Obviously they would have made the world of difference but apart from that I thought he did ok.

Congratulations Dublin, they were better going forward getting far better returns when they crossed the 45. As a neutral I think I wanted a draw so that they could do it all again!

Syferus · 23-09-2013 09:17AM

Dublin

Dublin criticising 'Dublin Joe'? Steady on.

Mayo are far more disciplined in tackling and far more skilled as a defence and Dublin committed many cheap, cynical fouls (as any team would) in the final ten minutes. The foul count was about right.

Slattsy · 23-09-2013 09:20AM

Draw

Hitchens wrote: »

Jim Gavin quoted as saying that Dublin were playing 16 men! Not happy with the referee at all. :eek:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/we-were-playing-the-ref-as-well-as-mayo-jim-gavin-29598711.html

Ha ha lovely.
Love stats like this. I knew McQuillan was bad but I didn't think the count was so high against us. Makes the win even better.

But of course the bitter so and so's will still say he favoured Dublin, that's the funny thing. Blinded by bitterness.

Get a chip, and put it on your other shoulder, that'll balance you out lads.

Felt great getting up for work this morning, a wish every Monday was like this.

Ordinary man · 23-09-2013 09:25AM

Gavin also said that it was a trend all season. So either every ref is biased against them or they are a dirty team

Muff Richardson · 23-09-2013 09:25AM

Draw

intellectual dosser wrote: »

As for the referee, there was two scorable frees he didn't give Mayo in the second half. Obviously they would have made the world of difference but apart from that I thought he did ok.

32 Mayo frees awarded to Dublins 12. ye got more than your money's worth of whatever chunky envelope that ref got. It was the most bias performance of a ref i have ever seen or will be likely to see. Jim Gavin has a very sportsmanlike approach to every game he played for dublin and team he presides over, he is a very humble, soft spoken and a true gent, he would be the last person to criticise a referee especially after the win but even he is saying that Dublin were playing 16 men out there yesterday.

http://http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/we-were-playing-the-ref-as-well-as-mayo-jim-gavin-29598711.html

listermint · 23-09-2013 09:31AM

Draw

Ordinary man wrote: »

Gavin also said that it was a trend all season. So either every ref is biased against them or they are a dirty team

Any supporter will tell you that Dublin have not been a dirty team all season.

In fact they are the most enjoyable team to watch.

robbiezero · 23-09-2013 09:33AM

"At the end, that was just Dublin players getting frustrated. ....blah values blah ....."

Bull**** from Jim Gavin. It was cynical fouling to close the game out.

intellectual dosser · 23-09-2013 09:34AM

Muff Richardson wrote: »

32 Mayo frees awarded to Dublins 12. ye got more than your money's worth of whatever chunky envelope that ref got. It was the most bias performance of a ref i have ever seen or will be likely to see. Jim Gavin has a very sportsmanlike approach to every game he played for dublin and team he presides over, he is a very humble, soft spoken and a true gent, he would be the last person to criticise a referee especially after the win but even he is saying that Dublin were playing 16 men out there yesterday.

http://http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/we-were-playing-the-ref-as-well-as-mayo-jim-gavin-29598711.html

Gavin said he failed to understand how his team could have a free count of 32-12 against them and insisted that it had been a common trend all season.He defended the cynicism of some of his players as they resorted to dragging down opponents to kill Mayo momentum

Common trends indeed, Gavin needs to look in house for the reasons his team concedes so many frees. I'm a neutral, not a Mayo supporter and I think Dublin were blessed not to concede more yesterday, maybe some other neutrals can chip in here.

wirelessdude01 · 23-09-2013 09:42AM

Frustrated my ar$e. They just did what any team does when it comes to crunch time. If any Dublin player had been through on goals I would have expected a Mayo man to drag him down as well and just concede the point from the free. The black card will hopefully stop that kinda cynical fouling from next year. Overall the better team won but Jim Gavin really shouldn't be trying to say the ref was against Dublin when it was obvious that his players were at times being very cynical. Have to say though that this mightn't have been driven by the management but more that the players themselves made the decision to do what was necessary.

copacetic · 23-09-2013 09:52AM

Draw

keeponhurling wrote: »

Yes, I think if Mayo had won the kick out they'd have had one last chance to work a point, similar to Clare hurlers last time.
Especially given the time wasted in the 4 mins injury time by cycnical tactical fouling, though O'Connor took his time with the last free too.
Cluxton took his time with the kick-out too.

I though McQuillan had an OK game though. It's a hard job being a referee, and I thought that while not getting everything right, he did reasonably well.

Timekeeping probably does need to be looked at though, it's a bit of a grey area these days.
Should time be added for excessive fouling? How long is reasonable to take a free kick, sideline, goal kick etc.? Should the ref have to tell O'Connor in that situation how long is left as it affects his decision?

The kick out was going straight into Dublins hands as they nearly all were. Collected by Dublin and launched in to stand as whistle went.

I thought it was very unlucky for Mayo, couldn't understand why they took point unless ref said there was time left.

Then seeing it on TV, he clearly says there is 30s left. Not that you have 30s left after you knock it over. O'Connor then takes 40s to kick it over.

Cluxton then actually took kick out pretty quickly to pick out Flynn, which he did and time is up, a minute after mcQuillan told Mayo there was 30s left.

Mayo got a lot of handy scoreable frees throughout the game from McQuillan, they can have no complaints overall. Dublin only got 4 in score able positions despite plenty of fouling. Along with numerous players taken out off the ball, incredible to see the ref made quickly aware of players bleeding so he can get them off the pitch, but not being made aware or attempting to find out what happened to them.

Shocking decision to book O'Carrroll and given an easy free in for a textbook shoulder to shoulder collision, one of many poor decisions. Stunned anyone in Mayo can complain about the ref.

Overall it was a disappointing performance from both teams. Dublin didn't perform well, but we're much stronger after first 20 minutes. Unfortunately kept Mayo in it by poor finishing yet again, 3 one on ones with keeper, 3 points dropped into keepers hands and two kickable frees missed. We're very lucky that Mayo weren't at the races at all. Having to carry O'Gara and O'Carroll for last 15 mins was nearly our undoing. Fair play to O'Gara, great performance, caused Mayo to have to change their back line and got a great brave touch on for Bastick to break through to create goal (and got taken out and injured for rest of game in doing so)

The midfield, half back runns and kickouts totally dominated Mayos midfield and made them look ordinary with their much better mobility once ball was in hand.

Slightly less lustre to the win as we had to hang in rather than push to a bigger win, but with 2 walking wounded and the ref whistle happy the ground just couldn't be made up. Some cynical tackles but people seem to be forgetting that in last 9 minutes every time Dublin won the ball back whoever had it was taken out by a Mayo player straight away. Where were the yellow cards then? In fact McQuillan was rushing Dublin to take the frees even with players injured.

joe swanson · 23-09-2013 09:53AM

Gavin is a disgrace to give out about the ref. His team should have had a couple of reds thrown in for good measure for their cynicism in the match.

And people saying its part of the match - it shouldnt be and is not meant to be. The foul count just showed what sort of players dublin have.

As a neutral, i was deeply disapointed by the antics of dublin yesterday.

And also, aswell as losing gracefully, there is also a way to win gracefully which dublin dont seem to grasp. This particular all irsland win will be forever tainted as a result of dublin behaviour during and post match.

Ive also heard some horror stories regarding the dublin fans yesterday which i really hope are not true.

Slattsy · 23-09-2013 09:53AM

Draw

Dublin were cynical for last 7 or so minutes yesterday. Too ****ing right in AI final to close a game out.

Mayo were cynical for the last 20 mins in the semi final last year, as i said yesterday, payback is a bitch.

When McQuillan was named as ref, the Mayo lads lost the plot in their thread. The funny thing is, he couldnt have helped them anymore lol

Slattsy · 23-09-2013 09:54AM

Draw

joe swanson wrote: »

Gavin is a disgrace to give out about the ref. His team should have had a couple of reds thrown in for good measure for their cynicism in the match.

And people saying its part of the match - it shouldnt be and is not meant to be. The foul count just showed what sort of players dublin have.

As a neutral, i was deeply disapointed by the antics of dublin yesterday.

And also, aswell as losing gracefully, there is also a way to win gracefully which dublin dont seem to grasp. This particular all irsland win will be forever tainted as a result of dublin behaviour during and post match.

Ive also heard some horror stories regarding the dublin fans yesterday which i really hope are not true.

lol

sargito · 23-09-2013 09:55AM

LeoB wrote: »

Bitter aint the word for this post. This was not a dirty game and your bitterness is clouding your view of the intensity of how Gaelic football is played. Mayo had that intensity for a lot of first half but could not sustain it. They looked tired coming up to half time and when your out on your feet mistake creep in. Look at what Dublin missed. Only for Hennelly who made 3 excellent saves. As for Dublin fans when the national league comes around only 1 team can fill croker and it aint Mayo, or Kerry or Cork its Dublin. How many of the people there today will be in McHale Park come a cold Sunday for FBD league or NFL game?

.

Because that's what matters in GAA Sure the rest of us should go home so. Most of us have played the game so we ain't eejits, so we don't have to rely on JOe Brolly to tell us when we should be annoyed at underhanded play. look we all know that Dublin lowered the standard of their game to win yesterday. If you can't figure that out then you mustn't have been paying attention in the earlier games. It certainly wasn't a showcase for irish sport. But footballers will push the boundaries and mcquillan lost control early on. SO you keep counting the numbers at games and wait for the pundits to fill in the gaps

Dubliner28 · 23-09-2013 09:55AM

Draw

aidan24326 wrote: »

Not necessarily. I mean in all honesty Mayo had little or no chance of working a goal from that position such was the wall of Dublin players in front of them.

It was worth taking a chance that the ref might let it run on past the 4 mins if Mayo had won possession from the kickout. It's a common misconception that the number of minutes injury time is a limit not to be surpassed. It isn't.

It's a minimum and the ref can add to it at his discretion to allow for subsitutions, time wasting etc. Unfortunately refs often don't and that makes it easy for teams to run down the clock.

The whole issue of timekeeping needs to be looked at. (but I'm not suggesting that it had any great bearing on today's result. The better team won on the day and were probably worth a bit more than the 1 point margin).

True, very true. What happens doh when O Connor takes 40-45 seconds to take the 2 frees at the end using up nearly 2 of the 4 minutes allotted. Cleary new that his team needed scores and the 1st one in particular as a tap over in front of the posts. You cant say when Cluxton takes a free or a 45 he's wasting time. He's our designated free taker. Agree that it needs to be looked at but if some Mayo lads are blaming the ref the should look at there forwards inability to score. Wides in the 1st half cost them an All-Ireland. Game should have been over at half-time.

elefant · 23-09-2013 09:57AM

Dublin

Slattsy wrote: »

Ha ha lovely.
Love stats like this. I knew McQuillan was bad but I didn't think the count was so high against us. Makes the win even better.

But of course the bitter so and so's will still say he favoured Dublin, that's the funny thing. Blinded by bitterness.

Get a chip, and put it on your other shoulder, that'll balance you out lads.

Felt great getting up for work this morning, a wish every Monday was like this.

From reading this thread, if anyone has a chip on their shoulder it's you.
The foul count was higher because Dublin fouled more, quite simply. After about 15 minutes or so a stat came up on screen that Mayo had yet to concede a free, and there was nothing contentious about that because their tackling had been so good. Couple that free-less period with Dublin's constant fouling for the last 10 minutes and it's easy to see why the foul count was so lop-sided.

The refereeing was pretty even in my opinion. It's easy to be a gracious winner; Jim Gavin has failed in that.

Slattsy · 23-09-2013 10:02AM

Draw

elefant wrote: »

From reading this thread, if anyone has a chip on their shoulder it's you.
The foul count was higher because Dublin fouled more, quite simply. After about 15 minutes or so a stat came up on screen that Mayo had yet to concede a free, and there was nothing contentious about that because their tackling had been so good. Couple that free-less period with Dublin's constant fouling for the last 10 minutes and it's easy to see why the foul count was so lop-sided.

The refereeing was pretty even in my opinion. It's easy to be a gracious winner; Jim Gavin has failed in that.

Ah some of the free's McQuillan handed out were never free's. Not every one of them of course, but 50% of them were never free's.

I said in this thread in the run up to the game that McQ can be very whistle happy and that it could be a stop start game if he doesnt let the game flow. So it turned out.

keep going · 23-09-2013 10:05AM

Does anyone else think mayo gave up in the last 10 minutes of play and they never sensed the opportunity with dublin effectively down to 13 men.reading james horan body language he did too , eg if kerry or tyrone were in the same place it would be alot different.

Ceist_Beag · 23-09-2013 10:07AM

Overall a very disappointing final. Dublin were deserved winners and I don't think Mayo can blame the ref (although the ref was pretty poor and shouldn't get another final imho). But the game was poor - the first half quality was awful and the second half was very niggly, tetchy and negative. Gavin has a neck accusing the ref of being bias - the Dublin tackling, particularly in the second half was awful. There is a skill in tackling and the Mayo backs showed that to great effect, however their forwards let them down badly yesterday.
Fair play to Dublin, they are worthy champions this year but hopefully we will have a better championship as a whole next year as this year overall has been disappointing.

keeponhurling · 23-09-2013 10:08AM

In some cases McQuillen blew for frees when he could have played advantrage, hence making the free count a little higher.
e.g. Moran & Freeman both scored points which were brought back for a free-in

FixdePitchmark · 23-09-2013 10:12AM

Was at match, but was a bit of a let down.

For me it showed how important a winning mentality is. Dublin winning the AI in 2011 is a major wall they had to overcome. Amazing the change of mentality in squad , fans, mgmt.

Your heart would go out to Mayo, (as a Dub). The level of support from what is a small county population wise, not to mention distance, is a total credit to them, taking the hill killed the Dublin crowd, so the fans couldnt have done more.

So with minors and a new set up, Mayo will be back and hopefully get the win they deserve.

Great day out with people coming home from all over thd world, I'm not from a GAA background , amazing achievement the whole day.

The ticketing system seems unfair as an outsider, I say that as someone who benefitted.

The atmosphere was fairly muted after around fairview, pubs full etc. , but there is nothing like the first win in a long time in 2011, again back to the winning mentality , sound like bloody trap there, lol.

Slattsy · 23-09-2013 10:15AM

Draw

When the two best teams in the country meet, with two very tactical astute managers, i dont think it was every going to be a classic.
The homework was done from both teams, and they basically cancelled each other out.
Then take into account nerves, the heat.

We'd all have loved another Dublin-Kerry but it was never going to happen.
Mayo will be back, and dont be surprised if its another Dublin-Mayo final if they avoid each other in the draw.

Dubliner28 · 23-09-2013 10:19AM

Draw

Slattsy wrote: »

Ah some of the free's McQuillan handed out were never free's. Not every one of them of course, but 50% of them were never free's.

I said in this thread in the run up to the game that McQ can be very whistle happy and that it could be a stop start game if he doesnt let the game flow. So it turned out.

Some of the frees were disgraceful for both teams. I remember the one midway through the 2nd half(cant remember the Dub player/think it was O'Carroll on Varley) clean honest hard hit, he gives a free in to Mayo. Even the Mayo lads around me were laughing at it and agreed he gave him a few "debatable" frees. But to win an Ireland again with 13 players is great lol...
COYBIB

Muff Richardson · 23-09-2013 10:32AM

Draw

joe swanson wrote: »

And also, aswell as losing gracefully, there is also a way to win gracefully which dublin dont seem to grasp. This particular all irsland win will be forever tainted as a result of dublin behaviour during and post match.

yeah shame on them for celebrating winning the all ireland, arms in the air and all that noisy cheering. what are you on about.

if you are going to talk about unsportsmanlike behaviour look no further than Andy Moran trying to taunt the Hill after his goal with his hands behind his ears...clearly rehearsed in front of the mirror at home only the idiot didn't bank on the Hill being half full of his own supporters so I'm not sure it really had the intended impact

23-09-2013 10:50AM

STB wrote: »

What percentage of tickets were returned by County Boards directly to GAA HQ would you think..........

Lot of sleeper Mayo fans in other counties perhaps

Hill 16 is Dublin only (except were concerted campaigns were organised otherwise).

Anyhow let the real game begin!

Why the hell should the Hill be Dublin ? Mayo had as much a right to take over the Hill yesterday as anybody else. Long may that continue. There is no one stand allocated to any one county.

I's suggest Dublin should have upper Davin in the future.:D

AdpRo · 23-09-2013 11:04AM

Draw

I find it hilarious the amount of so called neutrals giving out about Dublin's cynical play in the last 10 minutes. I'd love to look back at last years semi-final thread and see if the neutrals were as disgusted with Mayo's identical tactics in the last 10 minutes of that match. I'd also love to see their reaction if it was there county that closed out an All Ireland final like that! All 33 teams that played in this years championship would have done the exact same thing to ensure they win the match but because it's Dublin it's suddenly a hanging offence.

I was a neutral on the Hill yesterday and though Dublin were by far the better team, how can you expect to win an All Ireland without scoring a point from play for 40 minutes. The ref clearly told O'Connor there was 30 secs left and he duly took that time to kick the free, he is one of the slowest free takers around.

AdpRo · 23-09-2013 11:06AM

Draw

Deleted User wrote: »

Why the hell should the Hill be Dublin ? Mayo had as much a right to take over the Hill yesterday as anybody else. Long may that continue. There is no one stand allocated to any one county.

I's suggest Dublin should have upper Davin in the future.:D

Agree 100%. Crowds are not segregated like soccer thankfully and Mayo has as much right as anybody to be there, I was a neutral on the Hill and really enjoyed it yesterday, great craic between both sets of supporters.

robbiezero · 23-09-2013 11:12AM

Weetabix wrote: »

I find it hilarious the amount of so called neutrals giving out about Dublin's cynical play in the last 10 minutes. I'd love to look back at last years semi-final thread and see if the neutrals were as disgusted with Mayo's identical tactics in the last 10 minutes of that match. I'd also love to see their reaction if it was there county that closed out an All Ireland final like that! All 33 teams that played in this years championship would have done the exact same thing to ensure they win the match but because it's Dublin it's suddenly a hanging offence.

I was a neutral on the Hill yesterday and though Dublin were by far the better team, how can you expect to win an All Ireland without scoring a point from play for 40 minutes. The ref clearly told O'Connor there was 30 secs left and he duly took that time to kick the free, he is one of the slowest free takers around.

As a neutral I have no problem with how Dublin closed out the game. The rules of the game at the moment allow that to take place and it would be a foolish team that would not take advantage of them. Not nice viewing for the neutral, but it is all about winning.
But people are perfectly entitled to call bull**** on Jim Gavins comments that it was frustration with the ref rather than cynical play which his team would never indulge in because it is not in their "values".

Didn't think the ref had a great game, but he made poor decisions on both sides and he was not a factor in the result. The best team on the day were deserving winners. Mayo have only themselves to blame for being beaten.

c_man · 23-09-2013 11:24AM

I really didn't predict that final! Congrats to the Dubs, great achievement.

All-Ireland Football Final Maigh Eo vs Baile Átha Cliath

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