ESB low user standing charge increase

freddyuk · 16-01-2012 12:13PM

Thanks for clarifying David and actually it is worse than I thought as I will be debited the extra charge for a whole year so EI can sit on the cash - that is actually not owed - but to simplify the admin process we will lose up to €60 until we get a credit back at year end. When interest rates start to move up again that will be a quite an irritating situation, not that isn't already.
It is the same where a company imposes a direct debit scheme based on usage and increases the monthly charges so there is always a large credit in favour of the supplier. I never use that kind of scheme, which are normally voluntary, as I prefer to pay for what I use but in this case I am forced to offer EI credit for the privilege of installing my own renewable energy power source. I knew there was more to this and you have finally admitted that we will effectively lose out financially.
Quote:
In any event, I can confirm that for as long as the customer is in contract with Electric Ireland the application of the Low User Standing Charge will not result in a reduction in Micro-generation benefits. Unquote.
Well yes it will unless you include interest on top.

Coles · 16-01-2012 07:06PM

@Electric Ireland (David), When your research suggested that only 10% of MicroGenerators would be impacted by this increase in the standing charge is that because you found that MicroGenerators aren't exporting their electricity onto the Grid (beyond the 3000 units at the 10c/unit bonus), and are instead using the surplus electricity for water heating or to supplement their central heating?

I can't come to any other conclusion, and it is a damning indictment of the shambles that the MicroGeneration 'support' scheme has become. MicroGenerators are forced to comply with the most ridiculous regulations in terms of the quality of the power they produce, but it makes better commercial sense to use this electricity for heating water!?

Let's look at the energy hierarchy for a moment. Wood or coal can be burnt to produce heat, which can be used to boil water and create steam, which can be used to drive a mechanical turbine, which can produce electricity which has to be rectified/inverted to match the grid, which can then be easily transported to the point of use. Electricity is at the top of the pyramid of energy hierarchy, and every single stage of the process to create this electricity is wasteful of energy.

But in Ireland a MicroGenerator gets a better return by using this clean electricity to do a task that could be accomplished by logs or coal, than by providing it to the National Grid.

It seems completely insane. Perhaps it is?

freddyuk · 16-01-2012 09:59PM

We are just in the middle of the battle between the political aspirations of government and the commercial desires of the supply companies. If it was purely a commercial thing I would not be going down this route but to be penalised now after spending the cash on the hardware I cannot go back so I will be monitoring my system entirely for my benefit.

Coles · 16-01-2012 11:21PM

The progress in the UK stands in stark contrast to Ireland.

A good read. UK MicroGeneration progress Report

freddyuk · 17-01-2012 12:24AM

Got it and read it. Sadly killing off the financial incentive from 43.3p to 9p instantly will kill the industry stone dead. Currently it is dead while the government is in court and I see no revival so government target will not be met by domestic PV. Those in the cabinet want maximum 9p FIT.
They are throwing money at marine wind turbines which have a terrible record and potential payback is not proven. PV is proven and a balanced reduction in financial incentive would match the reduction in capital cost but no they could not manage that simple exercise so they killed it off through incompetence and lack of any business acumen. Installation graph went vertical in mid October when they announced the cut in FIT from 12th December and now it is flat lined.

Coles · 17-01-2012 12:30AM

freddyuk wrote: »

Got it and read it. Sadly killing off the financial incentive from 43.3p to 9p instantly will kill the industry stone dead. Currently it is dead while the government is in court and I see no revival so government target will not be met by domestic PV. Those in the cabinet want maximum 9p FIT.

Is the PV REFiT not 24.1p now? 28cent/kWh compared to 9c/kWh in Ireland.

freddyuk · 17-01-2012 10:03AM

No there is no idea of what the legal FIT may be as it is total confusion. The official line was it would be 43.3p from 12th December until 1st April and then drop to 21p for the remainder of 25 years.(everything before 12th qualified for 43.3p for 25 years). In April the new energy rating scheme comes in so if you have solar installed and your house does not make the 'C' rating your FIT payment will drop to 9p for 25 years. Most existing houses will not make that rating or they will spend thousands getting the rating which negates the fit income.
Until the court case is resolved no one is sure what the deal is currently so very few are risking an installation on domestic property.
Once the court case is resolved I reckon it will be pretty much April and the new regulations will be in so the scheme will be dead as 9p does not make financial sense.
That is how I understand it currently.

I think you are adding the export rate of 3p to get 24p.

freddyuk · 18-08-2013 08:45AM

Here is an update to this old thread with information from ESB/Electric Ireland:

Quote:
The low usage scheme applies to customers that use on average 2 or less units of electricity per day. Because this was causing an issue with Microgen users being overcharged, we adapted our pricing to include micro-generation customers as being exempt from the Low User standing charge. However it still appears on the bill. To rectify this issue, twice yearly the difference between the regular standing charge and what the microgen customers are being charged is refunded by means of a credit on the bill. So it will appear that you are being charged a low user standing charge if your import is low, but I can assure you that any difference will be refunded.
Example, if you started on the scheme next week and for the next 6 bills were charged as a low user because of the micro-generator, then we would refund the difference to you twice a year, once in February, and again in August.
If your bill is in constant credit as a result, then we can arrange for the funds to be transferred back into your bank account by means of an EFT(Electronic Funds Transfer), or by cheque if you are a non direct-debit customer.
Unquote.

Sorted.

Coles · 19-08-2013 08:43AM

More than 18 months! Crazy that it took so long.

ESB low user standing charge increase

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