IAAF World Championships Thread - GOLD FOR HEFFERNAN

ecoli · 16-08-2013 05:33PM

Sacksian wrote: »

I would definitely have been in this camp up until today but, despite what a lot of online discussion (letsrun!) suggests, these guys really are trying to beat him!

The problem is that there's a race against everyone else same time they're racing Mo. Unless your attitude is all or nothing (i.e. don't mind missing out on a silver or bronze at the world championships), I don't see what the options are.

I don't think anyone who might be able to break that field would risk their medal chances with an all or nothing tactic.

p.s. great run by Fraser-Pryce too!

Koech pushed the pace - no one went with, Ediris took the pace on - looked around as no one went with. There were two possible scape goats yet no one decided to capitlize on this.

You had 4 sub 12.50 runners (4 seconds quicker than Mo) in that field that you know can run well off a hard pace 3 of which failed to go with Koech when he pushed the pace. They are facing a guy who has run 3.28 this season so why set the race up to his advantage.

I think your all or nothing comment is a key one and I mentioned it before it does seem as though they are running for the minor medals.

Athletes didn't give Geb, Tergat or Bekele that sort of respect so why give Mo it?

If it was a once off I could accept it but doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity

titan18 · 16-08-2013 05:43PM

Tbh, I think that's what they're doing, they're running afraid of losing rather than wanting to win. They know they can't outkick him, so why do it race after race. Might nearly even be worth the Kenyans and Ethiopians just putting one from each team in as a pace maker rather than having 3 each just competing for the minor places.

Shame for Felix, one of the very few sprinters that I'd fully believe is clean, and actually looks like a normal person.

the_real_lamp · 16-08-2013 05:58PM

The only Brit to have a 44 sec split in the 4x400 heats left off team for final and the they finish fourth in the final. Selectors have a bit of explaining there to do.

the_real_lamp · 16-08-2013 06:02PM

US have lodged an appeal to the results of the mens shot. Storl's winning throw was initially judged a foul, which he appealed and was then allowed. Officials used photographs to judge whether was a foul when Storl appealed first.

The Pheasant2 · 16-08-2013 06:39PM

I watched Storl's throw several times and couldn't see anything that would warrant a no-throw

torqtorq · 16-08-2013 06:47PM

USA taking a punt because his throw was initially disallowed. However I certainly could not see anything wrong in the replays and the Eurosport commentators called it straight away that the red flag was a mistake.

Sacksian · 16-08-2013 07:18PM

ecoli wrote: »

Koech pushed the pace - no one went with, Ediris took the pace on - looked around as no one went with. There were two possible scape goats yet no one decided to capitlize on this.

You had 4 sub 12.50 runners (4 seconds quicker than Mo) in that field that you know can run well off a hard pace 3 of which failed to go with Koech when he pushed the pace. They are facing a guy who has run 3.28 this season so why set the race up to his advantage.

I think your all or nothing comment is a key one and I mentioned it before it does seem as though they are running for the minor medals.

Athletes didn't give Geb, Tergat or Bekele that sort of respect so why give Mo it?

If it was a once off I could accept it but doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity

That was my opinion too but I think now I have to accept that these guys are top-level runners and racers. Do we really think they haven't realised the obvious strategies all the guys on letsrun are touting will work for them??? Edris and Koech are very young guys (probably!) and didn't really know what to do once they pushed on.

Everyone is looking to run the best race they can - it's a bit disrespectful to paint all of the other runners as afraid of Farah (although I was screaming at the tv during the 10000 when he was allowed get Rupp to do what he wanted and push everyone else around the track at will). I really think Jeilan thought he could beat him in the 10000m but racing is psychological too.

4 guys with PBs faster than Farah may not be that big a deal when a Championship race is generally going to be a slower time than one run during the season, which might have pacemakers. And most people would agree that Farah hasn't chased fast times in races (which is why a lot of people won't recognise him as being up there with geb, tergat and bekele).

I didn't think it was boring - they were really trying very hard to keep him off the front and he just kept coming. I really thought he would have burned off his kick by doing that.

Like everyone else, I would love to see Farah in a competitive sub 12:50 race and we can settle this argument once and for all!!

TLDR - I find Farah's tactics very annoying but a 5k/10k double at Olympics and Worlds is pretty incredible.

Truman Burbank · 16-08-2013 07:29PM

pc11 wrote: »

MJ has been very entertaining this week, he's getting quite funny and less stiff. He's great to listen to mostly.

Can't recall the exact wording on the men's 4x400 analysis, but it went something like this;
Gabby Logan: What was the problem there (with the relay) - they thought they'd medal?
MJ: That was the problem, that they thought they'd medal.

drquirky · 16-08-2013 07:32PM

I'm quoting here:

Fool me once shame on you
Fool me twice shame on me
Fool me thrice, I'm an idiot
Fool me four times, I'm a Kenyan/ Ethiopian 5k/10k runner

Completely idiotic tactics on display yet again- to let a proven kicker like Farah win it in 13:26 is criminal. TBH I think Farah is just lucky that he's in such a crap era for 5k/10k stuff. Its kinda like when the heavyweight division went to **** after Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield etc etc- just no one to challenge him. I personally think hes gonna get his ass handed to him in the Marathon esp w/ the cream of the Kenyan crop now chasing the mara dollars...

Nauseating to hear Foster calling him the greatest British distance runner of all time- hell Dave Bedford has 1 more WR than Mo (an by all accounts the only "science he was using were pints)

Roger_007 · 16-08-2013 07:40PM

drquirky wrote: »

I'm quoting here:

Fool me once shame on you
Fool me twice shame on me
Fool me thrice, I'm an idiot
Fool me four times, I'm a Kenyan/ Ethiopian 5k/10k runner

Completely idiotic tactics on display yet again- to let a proven kicker like Farah win it in 13:26 is criminal. TBH I think Farah is just lucky that he's in such a crap era for 5k/10k stuff. Its kinda like when the heavyweight division went to **** after Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield etc etc- just no one to challenge him. I personally think hes gonna get his ass handed to him in the Marathon esp w/ the cream of the Kenyan crop now chasing the mara dollars...

Nauseating to hear Foster calling him the greatest British distance runner of all time- hell Dave Bedford has 1 more WR than Mo (an by all accounts the only "science he was using were pints)

I think MO is a class racer. but he is also very lucky to be around in what is a bit of a fallow period in 5k and 10k.
Apart from MO, It's hard to understand what going on with the British athletes. It's been a bit of a disaster for them after the high of the Olympics last year.

ecoli · 16-08-2013 07:49PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

I think MO is a class racer. but he is also very lucky to be around in what is a bit of a fallow period in 5k and 10k.
Apart from MO, It's hard to understand what going on with the British athletes. It's been a bit of a disaster for them after the high of the Olympics last year.

Gold in 400m womens, 200m finalist with an outside shot at a medal (which they have not had in a long while) 4th in the relay, medal opportunity in the womens hurdles, 4th in the womens 1500m, 5th in the Hep. Alot of youth in the team as well as a few high profile absences (Dobriskey and Jess)

Personally I think they have had a fairly solid Championships. Home nations (bar Canada) tend to almost over perform at Olympics usually so I the results have been optimistic

Chivito550 · 16-08-2013 07:55PM

Gebrhiwet has no English so I focused on Koech at the press conference and questioned his tactics and whether he was just running for silver and bronze, and why is it that nobody seems to try to push the pace rather than waiting until the end for the inevitable Mo victory sprint. He initially didn't understand the question and Mo butted in and said something along the lines of "he's Irish, that's why you can't understand".

Bit out of order, but there ya go!

drquirky · 16-08-2013 08:03PM

Ha would love to see the video of that Chivito- comedy gold!

Chivito550 · 16-08-2013 08:04PM

drquirky wrote: »

Ha would love to see the video of that Chivito- comedy gold!

I have it on audio, but I don't have the rights to put up any audio. I can only use it for material to write articles. So sadly, all that comedy gold, and there is a lot of it, will have to stay with me.

robinph · 16-08-2013 08:11PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

I think MO is a class racer. but he is also very lucky to be around in what is a bit of a fallow period in 5k and 10k.
Apart from MO, It's hard to understand what going on with the British athletes. It's been a bit of a disaster for them after the high of the Olympics last year.

Not really much of a difference from their Olympic performance.
A 4th rather than gold in heptathlon, but with a new young athlete.
Below par in long jump and high jump, but then the standard of every one else was completely different this time.
As expected in the W 400m with a medal expected, but was pot luck for which colour last year and this.
Mo did as expected.
Good chance to medal in the 200m.
Relays are always a gamble for getting all or nothing and there is a chance for a medal for the women.

Roger_007 · 16-08-2013 08:25PM

robinph wrote: »

..............
Relays are always a gamble for getting all or nothing and there is a chance for a medal for the women.

I can never understand why they have relay races in championship athletics. They are really a fun event and should be confined to the school sports day. The essence of athletics is that it is individuals competing against each other. The strong countries can put out completely different teams in different rounds. How is that fair. It would be like a star athlete getting someone else to run the heats in an event and then he/she just turns up for the final. It's an absolute joke.

RoyMcC · 16-08-2013 09:08PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

I can never understand why they have relay races in championship athletics. They are really a fun event and should be confined to the school sports day. The essence of athletics is that it is individuals competing against each other. The strong countries can put out completely different teams in different rounds. How is that fair. It would be like a star athlete getting someone else to run the heats in an event and then he/she just turns up for the final. It's an absolute joke.

Roger why would you want to take a bit of fun out of it? Relays have always been around and athletes and spectators alike love them. It's still made up of individuals combining to try to run faster than four other individuals, with an added skill factor that the Brits have never mastered

And of course some teams will be stronger in depth than others, that's inevitable.

Athletics has a desperate struggle to attract followers outside the major champs - surely we need all the fun we can have.

woodchopper · 16-08-2013 09:08PM

drquirky wrote: »

I'm quoting here:

Fool me once shame on you
Fool me twice shame on me
Fool me thrice, I'm an idiot
Fool me four times, I'm a Kenyan/ Ethiopian 5k/10k runner

Completely idiotic tactics on display yet again- to let a proven kicker like Farah win it in 13:26 is criminal. TBH I think Farah is just lucky that he's in such a crap era for 5k/10k stuff. Its kinda like when the heavyweight division went to **** after Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield etc etc- just no one to challenge him. I personally think hes gonna get his ass handed to him in the Marathon esp w/ the cream of the Kenyan crop now chasing the mara dollars...

Nauseating to hear Foster calling him the greatest British distance runner of all time- hell Dave Bedford has 1 more WR than Mo (an by all accounts the only "science he was using were pints)

Silly to put Dave Bedford on a petestal ahead of Mo Farah. No offense to Dave but Geb and Bekele have set a much higher standard than when Dave was ahead. Its like saying that Lasse Viren would beat Tergat because he won more gold medals.

By the way Mo didnt look too bad when he mauled Abel Kirui on a 20 mile long run last January. In the heat of Rio I would imagine the scientific approach to hydration and nutrition devised by Berti far exceeds anything the Kenyan Athletics Federation can come up with.

Killmurf · 16-08-2013 09:16PM

I thought the 5k tonight was a great race, but only caught the last 100 meters myself - was out running:D
The tactics were interesting and seemed to play into Mo's strength's. Thats not Mo's fault, up to other runners to play to their strengths if they think they can beat him that way - he said as much in his interview afterwards when he said he was surprised the Africans didn't try to make it a fast race.
On whether Mo is the best over British athlete - I'm not sure - depends if you think ability (records) or achievement (medals) or more important. I certainly think his achievement of winning 3 World golds and 2 Olympic golds is the best by any British athlete. Looks like he might focus on the marathon for the next couple of years - how he fairs in that may change the perception again.

Roger_007 · 16-08-2013 09:25PM

RoyMcC wrote: »

Roger why would you want to take a bit of fun out of it? Relays have always been around and athletes and spectators alike love them. It's still made up of individuals combining to try to run faster than four other individuals, with an added skill factor that the Brits have never mastered

And of course some teams will be stronger in depth than others, that's inevitable.

Athletics has a desperate struggle to attract followers outside the major champs - surely we need all the fun we can have.

Do you think that it is fair that the strong countries who are going to get the medals anyway are doubly favoured by being allowed to have one quartet do the qualifying and a completely different one, (the stars), compete in the final.
How are the medals awarded anyway? Is it only the quartet who run in the final that get them?

Pherekydes · 16-08-2013 09:46PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Do you think that it is fair that the strong countries who are going to get the medals anyway are doubly favoured by being allowed to have one quartet do the qualifying and a completely different one, (the stars), compete in the final.

That is not the case. Only two athletes may be substituted.

How are the medals awarded anyway? Is it only the quartet who run in the final that get them?

Each athlete who runs gets a medal.

titan18 · 16-08-2013 11:31PM

My opinion on Farah (well the one I won't get banned for), is that whilst he's a good athlete and runner, he just happens to be the best 400m runner after a 4600/9600 run. If the 5k or 10k was done as a time trial, I don't think he'd win, and I don't think he'll have much success at Marathon as all the good long distance runners are there. Imo, 10k is a weak field, and I don't think many of them would have competed 10 years ago, and 5k was kind of ruined at these Championships as none of the 1500 guys could double up. Not saying Farah would be beaten if there was better competition as he is capable of the best last lap against any of them, but in a fast run race or a time trial, I don't think he'd win. I'm not sure he could go sub 13 and win the 5k tbh. He's fantastic atm, but wouldn't consider him in the same league as Geb, Bekele etc.

RoyMcC · 17-08-2013 07:15AM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Do you think that it is fair that the strong countries who are going to get the medals anyway are doubly favoured by being allowed to have one quartet do the qualifying and a completely different one, (the stars), compete in the final.

If you didn't allow replacements then you'd inevitably have teams withdrawing from finals or (worse) athletes running with injuries.

The strong countries will always prevail however you tweak it.

Roger_007 · 17-08-2013 08:16AM

RoyMcC wrote: »

If you didn't allow replacements then you'd inevitably have teams withdrawing from finals or (worse) athletes running with injuries.

The strong countries will always prevail however you tweak it.

Here's a fun idea. Why not have all athletes, irrespective of nationality, who meet a qualifying standard entered in a draw for the relays and form ad-hoc teams. That way, athletes from weaker countries would have a chance of winning a relay medal whereas in the present setup they have no chance, (however good they are).
It gets a bit boring watching the Americans almost always win the 4x400 in a stroll. When you hear a commentator saying before the race that "..barring disaster the Americans, as usual, will win the gold, this is a race for the minor medals...", you begin to wonder.
It's true that the Jamaicans have got in on the act in the 4x100 in more recent times but athletes from the vast majority of countries can never even entertain the possibility of winning a relay medal.

RoyMcC · 17-08-2013 08:29AM

Ah Roger it's not all about medals though is it? Sure, for the top handful of nations that's a realistic target. For the second tier nations - let's say Ireland - wouldn't the aim of their relay squads wouldn't it be a great achievement to get a squad through the heats and into the final? And plenty of nations dream of qualifying a squad for the major championships.

It's not a lottery. It's a genuine athletic event with added skill factors and the unexpected might just happen to upset the odds.

Are you saying that Bondarenko's high jump win was not enjoyable, predictable though it was?

Roger_007 · 17-08-2013 08:56AM

RoyMcC wrote: »

Ah Roger it's not all about medals though is it? Sure, for the top handful of nations that's a realistic target. For the second tier nations - let's say Ireland - wouldn't the aim of their relay squads wouldn't it be a great achievement to get a squad through the heats and into the final? And plenty of nations dream of qualifying a squad for the major championships.

It's not a lottery. It's a genuine athletic event with added skill factors and the unexpected might just happen to upset the odds.

Are you saying that Bondarenko's high jump win was not enjoyable, predictable though it was?

That's my point exactly, an athlete from any country can win any individual event; that's what makes athletics such a wonderful universal sport. Look at the nationality of the medal-winners in the high jump: Ukraine, Qatar and Canada. With the relays; you have to be representing one of the handful of strong countries to have any chance.

pc11 · 17-08-2013 10:32AM

Roger_007 wrote: »

That's my point exactly, an athlete from any country can win any individual event; that's what makes athletics such a wonderful universal sport. Look at the nationality of the medal-winners in the high jump: Ukraine, Qatar and Canada. With the relays; you have to be representing one of the handful of strong countries to have any chance.

Can you take this to another thread, please? This one is for people to discuss the world champs, not this nonsensical 'idea'.

Edit: people really shouldn't respond to what is essentially trolling

Roger_007 · 17-08-2013 10:50AM

pc11 wrote: »

Can you take this to another thread, please? This one is for people to discuss the world champs, not this nonsensical 'idea'.

Edit: people really shouldn't respond to what is essentially trolling

Sincere and humble apologies PC11.:(

gerard_65 · 17-08-2013 12:09PM

Farah can only run against those in the race, and use his strengths to beat the competition. He doesn't choose who he beats. Comparing him to those who are now over the hill is nonsense. Over the years there have been many who did nothing until the last 50m of a long distance race and used their sprint to win, but they still had to put in the effort to be in a position to use the sprint. I wonder if he wasn't British would some here dislike him so much?

shels4ever · 17-08-2013 12:35PM

gerard_65 wrote: »

Farah can only run against those in the race, and use his strengths to beat the competition. He doesn't choose who he beats. Comparing him to those who are now over the hill is nonsense. Over the years there have been many who did nothing until the last 50m of a long distance race and used their sprint to win, but they still had to put in the effort to be in a position to use the sprint. I wonder if he wasn't British would some here dislike him so much?

Yep 5 out o 6 major titles is amazing. Not his fault that there is not current legend of 5 and 10k around at the moment we have been spoiled over the last 20 years with geb and bekele mo isn't in the same class bit can only beat who ever is around.
Would love to see home go for a time but not sure he is capable of 12:4x

IAAF World Championships Thread - GOLD FOR HEFFERNAN

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