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Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

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Comments

  • #962
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    ...


  • #963
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    jank wrote: »
    Of course you can. Why therefore are you defending their rights to be treated as humanely as possible?

    He doesn't support the death penalty, that's why. Neither do I. Doesn't mean we care more for the perps than the victims.


  • #964
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    old hippy wrote: »
    He doesn't support the death penalty, that's why. Neither do I. Doesn't mean we care more for the perps than the victims.

    What is the primary factor behind that support?


  • #965
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    jank wrote: »
    What is the primary factor behind that support?

    What support?


  • #966
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    What support?

    I dont knwo what the big issue is. Some people just should not have a right to life. simple as that.

    In a case where someone is a serial murder, no matter what you do they will still have killed many people. they will never be able to contribute to the world. it will cost lots of money to keep them in jail and to rehabilitate them. money which could go to helping sick kids or curing some disease or something like that.

    Can anyone tell me what Ian Huntly has done for the world? What about Ian Brady?Aurimas Andruska?Magdelena Luczak and Mariusz Krezolek?

    Can anyone tell me what they will ever be able to contribute to the world.


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  • #967
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    allibastor wrote: »
    I dont knwo what the big issue is. Some people just should not have a right to life. simple as that.

    What gives you the right to make that decision when the majority of Irish people have decided otherwise?


  • #968
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    What gives you the right to make that decision when the majority of Irish people have decided otherwise?

    Forgive me there Mr. Sparky, But I am not actually going out to put the bullet in thier heads, though I would in a second to most of these scum.

    What gives you the right to demand they receive better treatment than the people they harmed. In the case of the couple who systematically beat and killed thier 4 year old son/step child. They will receive three meals a day and warm safe surroundings for how ever long they are inside. They fed a 4 year old salt and knocked him out by holding him under water. why should they get better then he received.


  • #969
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    allibastor wrote: »
    What gives you the right to demand they receive better treatment than the people they harmed.

    I didn't decide or demand that, the people of Ireland did. How can you argue against that? The Irish electorate decided that it didn't want to engage in revenge killings. Is there anything morally wrong about that?


  • #970
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    What gives you the right to make that decision when the majority of Irish people have decided otherwise?


    If their was a referendum to execute the worst child molesters in the country do you really think the public would vote no to that ?

    Would you defend the human rights of a serial child molester ?


  • #971
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    What support?

    Your lack of support for a death penalty. Is it that its more humane? You think all killing is wrong? Is it altruism? Is it democracy?


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  • #972
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    I didn't decide or demand that, the people of Ireland did. How can you argue against that? The Irish electorate decided that it didn't want to engage in revenge killings. Is there anything morally wrong about that?


    To turn this around..The Irish electorate decided that it did not want abortion in the 1983 referendum. Is there anything morally wrong with that? ;)


  • #973
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    I didn't decide or demand that, the people of Ireland did. How can you argue against that? The Irish electorate decided that it didn't want to engage in revenge killings. Is there anything morally wrong about that?

    Again, it was an older referndum to outright ban all executions. I think now a days we are more liberal, as said we are now looking at abortion.


  • #974
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    jank wrote: »
    What is the primary factor behind that support?

    Er, that would be - I'm not in favour of the death penalty/revenge killings/murder.


  • #975
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    allibastor wrote: »
    Again, it was an older referndum to outright ban all executions. I think now a days we are more liberal, as said we are now looking at abortion.

    Liberal societies are less likely to support the death penalty?


  • #976
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    jank wrote: »
    Your lack of support for a death penalty. Is it that its more humane? You think all killing is wrong? Is it altruism? Is it democracy?

    I don't support the death penalty because I don't condone murder.

    Incarceration isn't the best punitive alternative, but it's necessary to remove their freedom in order to protect the general public. Ideally, they'd be doing something proactive to help repay their debt to their victims and society in general. This isn't really feasible though.


  • #977
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Jumboman wrote: »
    If their was a referendum to execute the worst child molesters in the country do you really think the public would vote no to that ?

    Would you defend the human rights of a serial child molester ?

    I do believe the public have rejected the chance to have the re-introduction of the death penalty in Ireland. Serial child molesters already existed when this referendum was held, why would they change their mind now?

    You'll have to define "human rights" for me before I do that. I'm not going to say yes to that question and have people accusing me of being a child abuse sympathiser.

    I would defend their right to not be be murdered and not be tortured, even if they didn't afford that privilege to their victims. That's what makes us better than them.


  • #978
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Jumboman wrote: »
    If their was a referendum to execute the worst child molesters in the country do you really think the public would vote no to that ?

    Would you defend the human rights of a serial child molester ?

    This smacks of desperation a bit. It's like, oh come on, you must want somebody executed.

    No, I don't want anyone executed. Even the lowly molester who has become something of a Godwinesque character to chuck in the mix...


  • #979
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    jank wrote: »
    Your lack of support for a death penalty. Is it that its more humane? You think all killing is wrong? Is it altruism? Is it democracy?
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

    I oppose the death penalty on three counts, all of which I have stated numerous times in this thread:
    1 - Fallability.
    2 - Cost (both of appeals and leaving the EU).
    3 - Pointlessness.

    "Was Hitler a murderer?" does not address any of these three points in the same way "how would you feel if you mother/wife/girlfriend/child was raped and murdered?" does not engage me, and is therefore a pointless, strawman argument.

    Pretty sure the same goes for everyone else here who's against the death penalty, but if you can find evidence to the contrary go debate it with them.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #980
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    old hippy wrote: »
    This smacks of desperation a bit. It's like, oh come on, you must want somebody executed.

    No, I don't want anyone executed. Even the lowly molester who has become something of a Godwinesque character to chuck in the mix...


    Its not so much desperation though, at the end of the day crimes such as this, where are the positive figures to show that the types of people ever go on to be useful members of society.

    would you condone the use of large amounts of government money to keep someone on special lockdown, maybe costing the tax payer 250K a year.
    This money can go to better causes like saving someones life.


  • #981
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    old hippy wrote: »
    This smacks of desperation a bit. It's like, oh come on, you must want somebody executed.

    No, I don't want anyone executed. Even the lowly molester who has become something of a Godwinesque character to chuck in the mix...


    I'm trying to understand how someone could defend the human rights of a serial child molester.


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  • #982
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    I do believe the public have rejected the chance to have the re-introduction of the death penalty in Ireland. Serial child molesters already existed when this referendum was held, why would they change their mind now?

    You'll have to define "human rights" for me before I do that. I'm not going to say yes to that question and have people accusing me of being a child abuse sympathiser.

    I would defend their right to not be be murdered and not be tortured, even if they didn't afford that privilege to their victims. That's what makes us better than them.

    To be fair also, they are humanly killed off. And it makes us better to be able to rationalise why they deserve to exist. We dont set the government out to kill random people. you dont get the death penalty for an accidental killing, you get it for a very serious crime in which you intentially set out to murder, possibly more than once.


  • #983
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    allibastor wrote: »
    Its not so much desperation though, at the end of the day crimes such as this, where are the positive figures to show that the types of people ever go on to be useful members of society.

    would you condone the use of large amounts of government money to keep someone on special lockdown, maybe costing the tax payer 250K a year.
    This money can go to better causes like saving someones life.


    If you're arguing pro death penalty from a cost point of view you haven't done your research.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #984
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    If you're arguing pro death penalty from a cost point of view you haven't done your research.


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/cost-of-keeping-each-prisoner-in-portlaoise-runs-to-240000-26366573.html


  • #985
    allibastor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭allibastor


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    If you're arguing pro death penalty from a cost point of view you haven't done your research.

    https://www.aclunc.org/issues/criminal_justice/death_penalty/frequently_asked_questions_about_the_costs_of_california's_death_penalty.shtml

    This artcile relates more to the cost of appeals and all that other stuff. A prisoner has the right of appeal to have the death conviction overturned, but not the custodial sentance.


  • #986
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Jumboman wrote: »
    I'm trying to understand how someone could defend the human rights of a serial child molester.

    Let me make it simple for you. I'm against the death penalty and I'm against knee jerk reactionaries. Got it? Excellent.


  • #987
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    allibastor wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/cost-of-keeping-each-prisoner-in-portlaoise-runs-to-240000-26366573.html
    allibastor wrote: »
    https://www.aclunc.org/issues/criminal_justice/death_penalty/frequently_asked_questions_about_the_costs_of_california's_death_penalty.shtml

    This artcile relates more to the cost of appeals and all that other stuff. A prisoner has the right of appeal to have the death conviction overturned, but not the custodial sentance.

    First one - tells me it costs 250,000 euro a year to house prisoners in Portlaoise jail and 100,000 in Mountjoy: how much does a lenghty appeals process cost in comparison? How much does it cost to execute someone?

    Second one - I'll assume you've read all those documents, so can you give me a synopsis of whichever one you wish to debate and the points that are relevant to your argument?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #988
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    The cost of housing prisoners is extortionate.


  • #989
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    jank wrote: »
    The cost of housing prisoners is extortionate.

    The cost of taking lives is even greater.


  • #990
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the death penalty costs tripple of what it would cost to keep someone in prison for life, the people of ireland in 2001 voted to abolish the death penalty in ireland so move on, nobody has the right to take another persons life, to say the taking of a life is wrong yet say that its okay to take the life of the person who did it is nonsense and invalidates the idea that its wrong to take a life, i don't have never and will never support the death penalty and nobody will convince me otherwise

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • #991
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Jumboman wrote: »
    If their was a referendum to execute the worst child molesters in the country do you really think the public would vote no to that ?

    Would you defend the human rights of a serial child molester ?

    I actually don't think they would. They asked the Late Late show audience would did they think the death penalty be applied to Sadam Huessain (sp?) and only a few people said he should . The people who said he should hadn't grown up in this country.

    He was a little worse than a single child molester


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