Lions 2013 Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

P.Walnuts · 02-07-2013 07:18PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Thanks, but interestingly, the only place I've seen Gray criticised is here.
Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

Richie Gray (v babas)
He appeared to cope with the conditions better than most and made a number of carries, one which almost led to a try for Hogg. Promising start after injury-disrupted season. 7

4 Richie Gray (v Rebels)

In a straight shoot out for a place on the Test bench with Ian Evans and Gray just edged it with an all-round display. He carried impressively, he won his six lineouts and put in an impressive shift defensive. 8

Well the management must not have been particularly impressed either, as they named a 16 st flanker on the bench instead of him.

thomond2006 · 02-07-2013 07:20PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Thanks, but interestingly, the only place I've seen Gray criticised is here.
Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

Richie Gray (v babas)
He appeared to cope with the conditions better than most and made a number of carries, one which almost led to a try for Hogg. Promising start after injury-disrupted season. 7

4 Richie Gray (v Rebels)

In a straight shoot out for a place on the Test bench with Ian Evans and Gray just edged it with an all-round display. He carried impressively, he won his six lineouts and put in an impressive shift defensive. 8

C'mon, Sky have to big up the Lions as it's Sky's own product. Any ratings have to be taken with a major pinch of salt. Can you tell us yourself why you think he should be there? You never seem to give your own reasoning!

When Gray was at his best in 2011, he was absolutely everywhere around the pitch, he carried Scotland at times. Nobody has said this season that he reached his old heights with Sale or Scotland last season. From what I've seen he hasn't really done much on the tour and tbh he probably didn't deserve to go in the first place. His selection in the tour party was definitely based on talent rather than form.

Rightwing · 02-07-2013 07:21PM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Well the management must not have been particularly impressed either, as they named a 16 st flanker on the bench instead of him.

And they are more than emtitled to their opinions, but the results and performances haven't exactly filled me with confidence however.

Rightwing · 02-07-2013 07:22PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

C'mon, Sky have to big up the Lions as it's Sky's own product. Any ratings have to be taken with a major pinch of salt.

When Gray was at his best in 2011, he was absolutely everywhere. Nobody has said this season that he reached his old heights with Sale or Scotland last season.

First rating was from the telegraph or the first paper that popped up.

thomond2006 · 02-07-2013 07:25PM

Rightwing wrote: »

First rating was from the telegraph or the first paper that popped up.

Fair enough!

In any case, care to tell us what you think yourself? I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'd rather read what you think about it as opposed to reading any article I could read myself. What has Gray done that I didn't see or don't know about?

Rightwing · 02-07-2013 07:28PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Care to tell us what you think yourself? I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'd rather read what you think about it as opposed to reading any article I could read myself.

I put those in there to highlight the idiotic notion that Gray is the worst player on tour as I've read here.

I'd have POC & AWJ well ahead of the other locks, with POC gone I'd go with Gray, didn't think Parling didn't anything wrong the last day, but I barely noticed him.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 02-07-2013 07:37PM

Gray is the worst lock on tour by a country mile. The guy has been absolutely useless, in fact I'd love to hear a coherent argument as to what he has supposedly done well?

Teferi · 02-07-2013 07:38PM

Rightwing wrote: »

I put those in there to highlight the idiotic notion that Gray is the worst player on tour as I've read here.

I'd have POC & AWJ well ahead of the other locks, with POC gone I'd go with Gray, didn't think Parling didn't anything wrong the last day, but I barely noticed him.

Not going to deal with the actual meat of the question no?

thomond2006 wrote: »

What has Gray done that I didn't see or don't know about?

Rightwing · 02-07-2013 07:41PM

Teferi wrote: »

Not going to deal with the actual meat of the question no?

Firstly, he changed his question as I was replying, and secondly I don't know what he didn't see :rolleyes:

Teferi · 02-07-2013 07:42PM

Still not going to deal with the actual meat of the question so?

thomond2006 · 02-07-2013 07:43PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Firstly, he changed his question as I was replying, and secondly I don't know what he didn't see :rolleyes:

How I am supposed to know what I didn't see? :pac:

All I'm asking is why you think he's a better option than the others in the squad, based on talent, Lions form etc.

Buer · 02-07-2013 07:45PM

To be honest, I think Gray has been alright in parts. He hasn't made an impact against the better sides though and, for that reason, he hasn't deserved a selection for a test game. He is capable of better but hasn't managed it at all. Ian Evans outshone him the other day mainly due to his superb line out performance but they would still be the last two of the five locks.

AWJ and POC were always a class apart. Parling, on tour, has set himself apart from the other two with his strong showings in the warm up games and a good showing in the second test in the set piece. I wouldn't rule out a change being made though at lock to try and give the Lions a bit more grunt at the rucks where Parling wasn't great. In fairness, that's not his game but he didn't have the sheer power to shift the Aussie front five at rucks. He worked his arse off though and turned in the best line out performance of any lock from either side in the test series.

Rightwing · 02-07-2013 07:45PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

How I am supposed to know what I didn't see? :pac:

All I'm asking is why you think he's a better option than the others in the squad, based on talent, Lions form etc.

I think Gray is a better carrier of the ball, like Parling he has won all his lineouts, and has been good in defense. If not a starter, def warrants a bench spot for me.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 02-07-2013 07:50PM

Gray is totally inept in the core duties of a lock at the breakdown, considering Gatlands gameplan, I'm amazed he toured with the likes of Jim Hamilton, D Ryan and Launchbury at home

I hate using this word but he's a showpony, and his carrying has been very average during this tour anyway

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 02-07-2013 07:58PM

.ak wrote: »

Thornley's team:

15. Halfpenny
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. Roberts
11. North
10. Sexton
09. Philips
08. Heaslip
07. SOB
06. Lydiate
05. AWJ
04. Evans
03. Jones
02. Hibbard
01. Corbisero

Bench: Youngs, Mako, Cole, Croft, Tipuric, Murray, Farrell, Cuthbert

Apart from the omission of Parling that'd be my select team as well.

Thornley is usually spot on. Murray is in very hard luck and it's a real shame that Manu T won't feature in a test. I rate him as one of the best attacking backs in the world

Swiwi. · 02-07-2013 08:21PM

Rightwing, you have an ally in the form of a crazy blind mammal that likes to dig holes

From the demented mole's blog:

There’s also an argument that you stack the second row with the best two scrummaging locks [i.e. two locks who typically scrummage behind the tighthead] in order to really power a massive effort in the scrum – step forward Scottish behemoth Richie Gray.

Gray is a 205cm/6’10″ and 120kg/18st12lbs lock who typically scrummages on the right hand side [but who has scrummaged on the left alongside Jim Hamilton for Scotland] and whom Adam Jones has described as “phenomenally strong”.

He’s had a consistently high tackle count on tour...and the lad hasn’t missed a tackle yet on tour, according to ESPN’s numbers. While he hasn’t had the wünder-tour that many had hoped for, neither has he fallen flat on his face.

Swiwi. · 02-07-2013 08:24PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd love to know a game plan that would suit this squad and these test matches better tbh

I've read completely differing posts criticising what some people think the gameplan is and it always completely differs, which is particularly annoying. The Lions are too defensive, The Lions are just forward oriented bosh bosh blah etc. The Lions are just Wales with Sexton. Etc etc. I'd love to know what's wrong with the game plan and what the approach should have been to play against this Australian side. Because I don't think there's been a single sensible post detailing that so far.

To beat Australia I would simply emulate Ireland's and New Zealand's performances at RWC 2011. I don't recall either of those gameplans revolving around a kicking game.

P.Walnuts · 02-07-2013 08:27PM

I'm kind of perplexed re why people think our scrum is in trouble, as far as I remember the only penalties we conceded (bar the last 5 minutes of the first test) were by Vunipola who was getting pinged for his illegal scrummaging, its not like we were being shoved backwards, we also demolished their scrum on several occasions...

With Corbs back in i'd expect more scrum dominance, its definitely an area to exploit imo

danthefan · 02-07-2013 08:27PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

To beat Australia I would simply emulate Ireland's and New Zealand's performances at RWC 2011. I don't recall either of those gameplans revolving around a kicking game.

Ehhh, we kicked a lot in that game. A lot more than Aus did anyway.

Swiwi. · 02-07-2013 08:29PM

danthefan wrote: »

Ehhh, we kicked a lot in that game. A lot more than Aus did anyway.

You may be right. But when I think of those games 4 names spring to mind: Ferris, O'Brien, Kaino & Thorn.

Which is why I think Gatland erred in not having Sean in the starting mix.

Rightwing · 02-07-2013 08:49PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Rightwing, you have an ally in the form of a crazy blind mammal that likes to dig holes

From the demented mole's blog:

There’s also an argument that you stack the second row with the best two scrummaging locks [i.e. two locks who typically scrummage behind the tighthead] in order to really power a massive effort in the scrum – step forward Scottish behemoth Richie Gray.

Gray is a 205cm/6’10″ and 120kg/18st12lbs lock who typically scrummages on the right hand side [but who has scrummaged on the left alongside Jim Hamilton for Scotland] and whom Adam Jones has described as “phenomenally strong”.

He’s had a consistently high tackle count on tour...and the lad hasn’t missed a tackle yet on tour, according to ESPN’s numbers. While he hasn’t had the wünder-tour that many had hoped for, neither has he fallen flat on his face.

Thanks, a good read, I'd like to see him v the Aussies even if it's just from the bench.

Swiwi. · 02-07-2013 09:02PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Thanks, a good read, I'd like to see him v the Aussies even if it's just from the bench.

I think he has a point that a strong scrum is more likely to win the Lions the game than a strong lineout. A strong scrum = milk penalties. A strong lineout = maybe turn over some pill, but rarely leads to penalties - unless maul, in which case need strong scrum...

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 02-07-2013 09:06PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

I think he has a point that a strong scrum is more likely to win the Lions the game than a strong lineout. A strong scrum = milk penalties. A strong lineout = maybe turn over some pill, but rarely leads to penalties - unless maul, in which case need strong scrum...

If Gray is on the field the Australian backrow will havea field day, especially with Warbs out

Rightwing · 02-07-2013 09:07PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

I think he has a point that a strong scrum is more likely to win the Lions the game than a strong lineout. A strong scrum = milk penalties. A strong lineout = maybe turn over some pill, but rarely leads to penalties - unless maul, in which case need strong scrum...

He has, but the aussies have done their homework on the lions, and this so called scrum advantage that we were suppossed to have simply hasn't materialised and won't now.

Tri nations will be interesting, let's see if the boks dismantle it.

I'm still trying to figure out how a side with Tony McGahan involved can out smart any opposition.

Swiwi. · 02-07-2013 09:09PM

Rightwing wrote: »

He has, but the aussies have done their homework on the lions, and this so called scrum advantage that we were suppossed to have simply hasn't materialised and won't now.

Tri nations will be interesting, let's see if the boks dismantle it.

I'm still trying to figure out how a side with Tony McGahan involved can out smart any opposition.

Yeah, choosing JOC at 10 aside, Deans has won the tactical battle so far, despite the pulverization of his starting backline in test 1.

Mahatma Geansai · 02-07-2013 09:11PM

Considering the paucity of carriers in the pack and his touted scrummaging strength, Gray is a much more realistic option than this forum would have you believe. He hasn't had the wunder-tour many expected/hoped for, but he's been decent. Parling - a player I've taken a liking to this tour - has been better, but as the Lions are hunting a win, Gray would be a reasonable call. I'd be happy to see him bench, as he's definitely a player who could have a big impact if the Lions are chasing the game with 25 to go.

Rightwing · 02-07-2013 09:11PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Yeah, choosing JOC at 10 aside, Deans has won the tactical battle so far, despite the pulverization of his starting backline in test 1.

Forgot about that,,, Deans really shouldn't be listening to McGahan

.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 02-07-2013 09:13PM

Question, when was the last time Richie Gray had a "big impact" on any game?

thomond2006 · 02-07-2013 09:14PM

Why the sudden attack on McGahan?

Rightwing · 02-07-2013 09:15PM

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Considering the paucity of carriers in the pack and his touted scrummaging strength, Gray is a much more realistic option than this forum would have you believe. He hasn't had the wunder-tour many expected/hoped for, but he's been decent. Parling - a player I've taken a liking to this tour - has been better, but as the Lions are hunting a win, Gray would be a reasonable call. I'd be happy to see him bench, as he's definitely a player who could have a big impact if the Lions are chasing the game with 25 to go.

I read somewhere the aussies calling Parling the 12 yr old with a beard, harsh, but a good laugh all the same. The lions are missing a few hard men in that pack, particularly with POC gone.

Lions 2013 Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

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