Lions 2013 Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

.ak · 01-07-2013 10:41PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

We'll just have to pull out the old agree to disagree. If that was an intentional ruck onto AWJ's face, then I'd support a lengthy ban. But I don't believe it was. However, neither of us are Horwill, so neither of us can be sure.

Yeah fair enough. Just for the record, I don't believe Horwill thought he was using his boot on AWJ's face, but was trying to ruck the player on the deck out of the water.

The Aussie · 01-07-2013 10:42PM

.ak wrote: »

Balderdash. When have you ever put your boot back down on the ground in the direction you're falling FROM to stop yourself falling over? You put it in the direction your falling TO to stop yourself falling.

If you are free standing Yes

If your holding on to something and driving No.

Two totally different circumstances.

Tox56 · 01-07-2013 10:44PM

.ak wrote: »

Yeah looking at again Farrell was incredibly silly... He's actually lucky he only caught his ear.

Yeah first time I've seen it too and amazed he's got away with that, extremely reckless. Given he hasn't played a minute of the test series to date he isn't in the same stratosphere of importance as Horwill, but for concistency that should be investigated too

Tox56 · 01-07-2013 10:50PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Which begs the pub-quiz question, in which test did BOD come off the bench? No cheating with wikipedia, now.

Genuinely without cheating I *think* him
and D'Arcy were both on the bench for one of the '99 World Cup games, remember seeing it somewhere anyway

Buer · 01-07-2013 10:50PM

Wallybee press conference postponed until 1pm local time i.e. 4 hours. Fock that. Goodnight Dublin!

.ak · 01-07-2013 10:51PM

In unrelated news:

Swiwi. · 01-07-2013 11:00PM

Buer wrote: »

Wallybee press conference postponed until 1pm local time i.e. 4 hours. Fock that. Goodnight Dublin!

Man, you are really letting the side down here. I've come to depend on your 3am bulletins with the latest breaking news from the lions tour.

KevinK · 01-07-2013 11:06PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Which begs the pub-quiz question, in which test did BOD come off the bench? No cheating with wikipedia, now.

I think it was the Rugby World Cup group game against Romania, when he came on and scored a drop goal.

Was eleven at the time , so could definitely be mixing it up with another game.

Mahatma Geansai · 01-07-2013 11:07PM

Anyone think/hope that we might see Paulie rise from the ashes for the 3rd test? As unlikely as it would seem, he is still training with the team, and we've seen how the medical staff were able to work wonders with Bowe.

fitz · 01-07-2013 11:10PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

I rest my case. What you're saying is that if the Lions lose it's all Gatland's fault for letting BOD down. Gatland has a lot to answer for with his turgid tactics in the weekend, but the players have to bear some responsibility too: they have the option to play what's in front of them, and not stick rigidly to some pre-defined plan.

They have the option of not doing what the coach has told them to do? Of course they do. They could also forget about starting any other games.

It's not about just BOD.
So far Garland's tactics have let the players down.

bilston · 01-07-2013 11:19PM

fitz wrote: »

They have the option of not doing what the coach has told them to do? Of course they do. They could also forget about starting any other games.

It's not about just BOD.
So far Garland's tactics have let the players down.

I'm glad you said that because when I read your earlier post I thought to myself that it isn't BODs reputation that concerns me, it's the Lions reputation on the line. Lose this weekend and we can probably forget about a test series victory until 2021 at the earliest. Gatland HAS to get this right.

fitz · 01-07-2013 11:31PM

bilston wrote: »

I'm glad you said that because when I read your earlier post I thought to myself that it isn't BODs reputation that concerns me, it's the Lions reputation on the line. Lose this weekend and we can probably forget about a test series victory until 2021 at the earliest. Gatland HAS to get this right.

Absolutely.
I mentioned BOD in my earlier post because I think for a player of his stature and talent, he's been poorly served from a coaching perspective in the last few years at international level. Opportunities squandered as it were.
I hope Garland doesn't squander this opportunity, for the whole squad, but in particular for the last-times Lions.

Swiwi. · 01-07-2013 11:37PM

fitz wrote: »

They have the option of not doing what the coach has told them to do? Of course they do. They could also forget about starting any other games.

It's not about just BOD.
So far Garland's tactics have let the players down.

Farmer Gatland and the Lions sheep. I know he's a Kiwi coach from the Waikato, but still.

As others have said, I don't think Gatland expects his players to be robots. Yes, there is a game plan, but they don't have to stick mechanistically to it in all situations. USME took the time to show an overlap being blown etc, so a little heads up rugby is also useful.

Still, I do apportion much of the blame to Gatland whose tactics, while not that far off winning last week (mainly due to Australian profligacy with the pill), were not exactly dazzling.

fitz · 01-07-2013 11:50PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Farmer Gatland and the Lions sheep. I know he's a Kiwi coach from the Waikato, but still.

As others have said, I don't think Gatland expects his players to be robots. Yes, there is a game plan, but they don't have to stick mechanistically to it in all situations. USME took the time to show an overlap being blown etc, so a little heads up rugby is also useful.

Still, I do apportion much of the blame to Gatland whose tactics, while not that far off winning last week (mainly due to Australian profligacy with the pill), were not exactly dazzling.

More like Boss Gatland and the Guys Who Don't Want To Get Dropped.

Sexton is a prime example. No way he'd choose to sit that deep, and garryowen that much. He's acting on instruction. Execution suffers when the gameplan obviously isn't right or working. We saw that for three years with Kidney.

Should Sexton have said stuff this, sitting back isn't working, I'm going to throw out the gameplan and everyone else can adjust to me....that's never going to happen. He'd be hauled off, or dropped after the game.
No Lions tourist is going to risk going against orders.

Lets just hope they're let off the leash this weekend.

accidentprone1 · 01-07-2013 11:53PM

KevinK wrote: »

I think it was the Rugby World Cup group game against Romania, when he came on and scored a drop goal.

Was eleven at the time , so could definitely be mixing it up with another game.

Still can't believe he was so good at such a young age...

CowboyTed · 02-07-2013 01:37AM

fitz wrote: »

More like Boss Gatland and the Guys Who Don't Want To Get Dropped.

Sexton is a prime example. No way he'd choose to sit that deep, and garryowen that much. He's acting on instruction. Execution suffers when the gameplan obviously isn't right or working. We saw that for three years with Kidney.

Should Sexton have said stuff this, sitting back isn't working, I'm going to throw out the gameplan and everyone else can adjust to me....that's never going to happen. He'd be hauled off, or dropped after the game.
No Lions tourist is going to risk going against orders.

Lets just hope they're let off the leash this weekend.

Wait until the do or die moment in the test... If they have the back line on the field, BOD will take control... Sexton will follow BOD...

molloyjh · 02-07-2013 01:55AM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Yes OK. But they should relinquish their right then to appoint the judiciary. Sorry, but it's this kind of thing that are the fundamentals of law etc. Independence, and freedom from interference.

I'd much rather a guilty guy got punished than got away with something due to a mistake that could easily have been rectified, but wasn't. That's ultimately what we're talking about here.

The IRFU are not "nuetral" in any true sense of the word. They have their own agenda, i.e. the overall standing and well-being of the game of rugby union. For them to stand by and not attempt to correct something as serious as a stamp to the head is wrong. It sends out the wrong message and can actively damage the sport, e.g. convince parents not to allow their kids play etc. The IRB aren't "out to get" either the Aussies or Horwill (despite what many would have you believe). They are looking to ensure that serious incidents are dealt with correctly and are being seen to be treated with the kind of severity and attention that they should be treated with.

molloyjh · 02-07-2013 01:57AM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

They have an agenda to stamp out foul play in rugby which is to be fully commended. It is highly regrettable that many of the high profile unsavoury incidents in modern times have been as part of Lions series.

I just dont like the IRB being judge & juror. Nothing to do with rugby. A lot to do with how I like my democracy to work.

??????

Rugby Union isn't a democracy....

JagerScout · 02-07-2013 03:14AM

Horwill cleared.

The Aussie · 02-07-2013 05:09AM

A wee bit of justice

Now, who is smarter than a 5th grader Two Queens Councils......

Hope it fires him up even more for Saturday in a fine example of a Two Finger Salute to the petty organisation that is the IRB.

"Mew noted that "for the appeal to succeed the IRB would have to establish that there was some misapprehension of law or principle by (Hampton) or that his decision was so clearly wrong or manifestly unreasonable that no judicial officer could have reached the conclusion that he did.

"There was sufficient evidence upon which a reasonable judicial officer could have reached the decision that was made," Mew said.

"Accordingly, it could not be said that (he) was manifestly wrong or that the interests of justice otherwise required his decision be overturned."

Swiwi. · 02-07-2013 06:14AM

I am about to have breakfast and HUMBLE PIE is on the menu. As well as those cotton socks. I can't believe he was cleared. Hopefully that's the last we'll see of frivolous appeals. An apology to aspertions cast on the original QC by the IRB wouldn't go amiss. Roll on Saturday, where both teams can field their strongest side available!

The Aussie · 02-07-2013 06:23AM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

I am about to have breakfast and HUMBLE PIE is on the menu. As well as those cotton socks. I can't believe he was cleared.

A good bit of roughage will have your insides sparkling for a while.

I'm glad he is cleared, if the Lions do go on to win would it not be even more of a hollow victory over a already depleted Wallabies team.

* LVR, wash your socks first.

Swiwi. · 02-07-2013 06:38AM

The Aussie wrote: »

I'm glad he is cleared, if the Lions do go on to win would it not be even more of a hollow victory over a already depleted Wallabies team.

In fairness, the Lions have had their fair share of crucial injuries too, not least Healy & POC. In saying that, the Lions have a much bigger playing pool from which to select.

Now at least attention can turn to the game itself, and away from the IRB judicial sideshow.

The Aussie · 02-07-2013 06:39AM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Now at least attention can turn to the game itself, and away from the IRB judicial sideshow.

+1

Swiwi. · 02-07-2013 06:40AM

molloyjh wrote: »

??????

Rugby Union isn't a democracy....

Sadly no, at times the IRB feels like a dictatorship.

How did you find the match by the way molloyjh? You were at the game, right?

Magi11 · 02-07-2013 06:49AM

Horwill's clearing just shows that all you have to do to escape punishment is not look directly at the head you're stamping on.

The Aussie · 02-07-2013 06:53AM

Magi11 wrote: »

Horwill's clearing just shows that all you have to do to escape punishment is not look directly at the head you're stamping on.

What evidence do you have that the inital Citing Hearing and subsequent Kangaroo Court could not find?

Are you trying to say it was intentional?

Swiwi. · 02-07-2013 07:02AM

The Aussie wrote: »

What evidence do you have that the inital Citing Hearing and subsequent Kangaroo Court could not find?

Are you trying to say it was intentional?

:pac:

Magi11 · 02-07-2013 07:07AM

The Aussie wrote: »

What evidence do you have that the inital Citing Hearing and subsequent Kangaroo Court could not find?

Are you trying to say it was intentional?

Of course it was intentional. Horwill is a serial stamper. The problem with the initial hearing and the appeal is that they were on a strictly legal basis with no input for the nuances of rugby. If Horwill isn't looking directly at Jones' head (or eye socket) then there is a doubt on his intention. So you have to look at his history and it isn't good. Hope he gets 99'd.

Swiwi. · 02-07-2013 07:08AM

Magi11 wrote: »

Of course it was intentional. Horwill is a serial stamper. The problem with the initial hearing and the appeal is that they were on a strictly legal basis with no input for the nuances of rugby. If Horwill isn't looking directly at Jones' head (or eye socket) then there is a doubt on his intention. So you have to look at his history and it isn't good. Hope he gets 99'd.

Time to move on, methinks...

What's your views for the game this weekend Magi11 for example?

Lions 2013 Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

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