Lions 2013 Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

OldRio · 30-06-2013 12:17PM

Terrible example to set IMHO.
But this is all gossip probably nothing in it.

Buer · 30-06-2013 12:27PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

I'd put money on it. I'll eat my socks if he doesn't start (provided fit). If he doesn't start and Horwill gets off his citing, I'll be shìtting cotton this week, but might as well be upfront with my opinions!

You really should speak with a dietician.

Swiwi. · 30-06-2013 12:31PM

Buer wrote: »

You really should speak with a dietician.

Good idea, that gives me food for thought.

JRant · 30-06-2013 01:05PM

Watching the highlights again and the lifting in the lineout at 4 but especially 6 was very poor. Not sure if it was a timing issue or uncertainty in the calls but on a number of occasions the jumper bearly got off the ground.

interlooter · 30-06-2013 01:05PM

I think if corbisiero starts and Horwill is rightfully banned, then the lions will edge it next week. I see these 2 as the most influential players for each team for different reasons. Gatland's tactics need a rock solid scrum, and lineout to lesser extent, and the scrum in the second test was a disaster.
Corbs shores up the scrum and has actually carried over twice as many test metres as the disappointing mako. Vunipola is a liability in the scrums and has not been breaking the excellent Australia tackles.
We need off loads in tackles to break the Aussies and no one is providing this. I hope tuilagi gets a chance to try.

Horwill is the aussie POC and his loss would be massive. His reaction at the end of the game was nerve tinglingly inspirational for an irishman, so what would it do for the wallabies. He has impressed me no end during the tests and has been at the heart of the most intense action, where your skipper should be!

Other than that, I would love to see the lions go out with all guns blazing and actually try to win the game. If another opportunity arises, like the penalty in the 22 when the Aussies were on a yellow card warning, we must go for the throat and show the sort of backbone that Horwill did. To defend and kick our way to a series defeat would all but finish the lions franchise IMO.

P.Walnuts · 30-06-2013 01:33PM

I know I shouldn't care but.....what horn was our good friend Stephen Jones blowing this morning?

Lets me guess

Feleteau in at 8

Roberts and 13, Davies at 13

Gray to start

Phillips to come back in

close?

shuffol · 30-06-2013 01:46PM

Murrays had a very solid tour, not sure I would've given him more than a 7/10 anytime he's played but he's been very consistent. However I think the fact that he's been touted to start next week speaks more about how disappointing the other scrumhalves have been.

Buer · 30-06-2013 03:15PM

OldRio wrote: »

Terrible example to set IMHO.
But this is all gossip probably nothing in it.

If it was due to breaking curfew, he has been punished. Being dropped from the 23 for one of the biggest games of your career is a serious kick. If Gatland thinks he'll improve the side/squad, he'll have him back in and rightly so, in my opinion. I don't think any other squad member, including the scrum halves, would harbour any ill will against Phillips at all. They're professionals.

In 2001, Dawson made a clanger of an error writing his article, explicitly criticising the camp. He was selected for the very next game and showed unbelievable character, fully supported by his team mates. I would expect Phillips would have the very same treatment by his colleagues.

OldRio · 30-06-2013 03:34PM

Buer wrote: »

If it was due to breaking curfew, he has been punished. Being dropped from the 23 for one of the biggest games of your career is a serious kick. If Gatland thinks he'll improve the side/squad, he'll have him back in and rightly so, in my opinion. I don't think any other squad member, including the scrum halves, would harbour any ill will against Phillips at all. They're professionals.

In 2001, Dawson made a clanger of an error writing his article, explicitly criticising the camp. He was selected for the very next game and showed unbelievable character, fully supported by his team mates. I would expect Phillips would have the very same treatment by his colleagues.

Well lets hope they all are and the rumour is untrue.

Lelantos · 30-06-2013 03:40PM

If Phillips starts the 3rd test, the Lions lose the series imo. He was woeful in the first game, pedestrian in attack, horrible box kicks & his "chase back" for the Aussie try was at best, lazy.
If Murray starts the 3rd test with Youngs coming on at the 60 minute mark I would be hopeful of a test series win.

bilston · 30-06-2013 05:17PM

shuffol wrote: »

Murrays had a very solid tour, not sure I would've given him more than a 7/10 anytime he's played but he's been very consistent. However I think the fact that he's been touted to start next week speaks more about how disappointing the other scrumhalves have been.

He was good yesterday. His box kicks we're pin point. He has come on a long way on this tour. I hope Ireland reap the rewards next season.

bilston · 30-06-2013 05:18PM

Lelantos wrote: »

If Phillips starts the 3rd test, the Lions lose the series imo. He was woeful in the first game, pedestrian in attack, horrible box kicks & his "chase back" for the Aussie try was at best, lazy.
If Murray starts the 3rd test with Youngs coming on at the 60 minute mark I would be hopeful of a test series win.

Big call there Lelantos. After all the one test he did start the Lions won.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 30-06-2013 05:25PM

bilston wrote: »

Big call there Lelantos. After all the one test he did start the Lions won.

Ah now bilston, the Lions won that test despite Phillips! He was awful!

Lelantos · 30-06-2013 05:26PM

bilston wrote: »

Big call there Lelantos. After all the one test he did start the Lions won.

I would say in spite of Phillips, not because of him......and Paulie was a crucial factor too imo

JagerScout · 30-06-2013 05:30PM

lots of posters trying to see something thats simply not there with Murray

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience · 30-06-2013 05:31PM

JagerScout wrote: »

lots of posters trying to see something thats simply not there with Murray

Care to elaborate? What exactly are people seeing that isn't there?

sydthebeat · 30-06-2013 05:38PM

the team id like to see for the 3rd test:

A corbs
T Youngs
A jones
AWJ
G Parling
SOB
Heaslip
SW (if not fit the, Croft, Heaslip, SOB)
Murray
Sexton
Roberts (manu if doc not fit)
BOD
North
Tommy B
1/2p

Mako
Hibbard
Cole
Evans
Croft (lydiate if SW gone)
Philips
Farrell
Cuthbert

In reality i think Phillips will be recalled to the team, with probably murray subbing.
Murray has been the best 9 on tour so far, he should be rewarded and given the opportunity. Familiarty breeds contempt and the aussies are overly familiar with phillips at this stage.
I think Lydiate will start again at 6 (and tipuric may 7)
SOB may be benched, though he really has to start.
Faletau could possibly start with Heaslip dropped, this wouldnt surprise me, though id disagree with it.

a few points on the two test so far.
1/2p is way too passive in offense, hes not running lines at all, making it much easier to defend against. Is he protecting himself to much?
Sexton is playing as deep as Paddy Jackson gets slated for... he needs to flatten up and commit fringe defenders.
while our back row was dogged in defense on saturday it offered nothing going forward. Lydiate does what he does, but its time a risk v reward analysis from gatland.
Youngs was disappointing in his distribution, he was brought in for his speed of hand and decision making but was lacking in both.
Galtand is going to have to go against his basic nature if he wants to win this series. His ultra-conservatism in both selection and tactics are mind numbing. Why bring the best players of four nations and demand a game plan that stiffles their natural instincts?

Swiwi. · 30-06-2013 05:39PM

I would start Phillips for this 3rd test...but he would have 15 minutes max to show he's up for it, otherwise off he comes, and I would have Murray on the bench. Phillips, on his day, is the best of the 3.

sydthebeat · 30-06-2013 05:56PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

I would start Phillips for this 3rd test...but he would have 15 minutes max to show he's up for it, otherwise off he comes, and I would have Murray on the bench. Phillips, on his day, is the best of the 3.

ah you cant risk giving a guy 15mins to prove himself and then haul him off leaving no SH cover for 65 mins..... especially in the deciding test of a lions series.

phillips has had his chance and blew it.
youngs has had his chance and didnt set the world on fire

murray has been consistently good whenever hes had a chance, and should be rewarded with the jersey. hes the in form 9 of the three....

phog · 30-06-2013 06:04PM

shuffol wrote: »

Murrays had a very solid tour, not sure I would've given him more than a 7/10 anytime he's played but he's been very consistent. However I think the fact that he's been touted to start next week speaks more about how disappointing the other scrumhalves have been.

Well Murray has performed, the other two haven't, if the in form player is supposed to get the jersey then it's Murray's.

I'm not hugely into player ratings as they're subjective but looking at the ratings from the two tests so far then it seems a good few 7/10 will be starting the final test.

subfreq · 30-06-2013 06:07PM

For me but it all hinges on if Roberts is fit. If he is then Gatland WILL play Phillips because they know each others game inside out.

If Roberts isn't fit then I would start Murray because you get the same for Sexton. Murray and Sexton stand the best chance of clicking together under the pressure of the occasion and utilising either Manu or Davies.

Now, to digress into the forwards and front row.

If the Lions want to win this then tight five needs to be more robust. I would start

Corbs
Hibbard
Jones
Evans
W-Jones

It's got the strength of the Welsh national side without sacrificing any real star form player from the tour.

I wouldn't even have Vunipola on the bench, I would have Grant there to keep the front row stable.

sydthebeat · 30-06-2013 06:13PM

subfreq wrote: »

For me but it all hinges on if Roberts is fit. If he is then Gatland WILL play Phillips because they know each others game inside out.

If Roberts isn't fit then I would start Murray because you get the same for Sexton. Murray and Sexton stand the best chance of clicking together under the pressure of the occasion and utilising either Manu or Davies.

Now, to digress into the forwards and front row.

If the Lions want to win this then tight five needs to be more robust. I would start

Corbs
Hibbard
Jones
Evans
W-Jones

It's got the strength of the Welsh national side without sacrificing any real star form player from the tour.

I wouldn't even have Vunipola on the bench, I would have Grant there to keep the front row stable.

while it may achieve parity in the scrum, it offers nothing in the loose.
you couldnt say T youngs offered less than hibbard in the scrum, or dan coles to be honest.. but both offer more of a mobility than their opposites.

gatland is going to have to risk if he wants to win the series.

Buer · 30-06-2013 06:28PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

while it may achieve parity in the scrum, it offers nothing in the loose.
you couldnt say T youngs offered less than hibbard in the scrum, or dan coles to be honest.. but both offer more of a mobility than their opposites.

I'd say Hibbard certainly offers more in the scrum. He's two stone heavier than Youngs and has far more power. In his initial scrum, he pulled the Northampton trick of driving across and up on their tighthead and their scrum went to pieces. Hartley does the exact same as he has that same bulk. Youngs is 16 stone dripping wet and simply can't do it.

Given that the referee next week is Poite, I think it's essential that we do whatever we can to get on top in the scrum. Any scrum moving forward will be rewarded.

We will lose Youngs work rate and scrapping for yards in the loose but I think we've seen in the first two tests just how important the scrum has turned out to be. Next week, we've a referee who is renowned for his approach to the scrum and giving penalties there. I'd go with anything that could give us an advantage there.

subfreq · 30-06-2013 06:40PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

gatland is going to have to risk if he wants to win the series.

I agree but I would look at my back row and back line as the places to take the risks.

Horwill is the power in the engine room for Australia and he will be absent and if, in all likelihood, Deans selects Simmons its effectively a double negative and an area that the Lions can really exploit.

bilston · 30-06-2013 06:43PM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Ah now bilston, the Lions won that test despite Phillips! He was awful!

I totally agree. I'm just pointing out that if Phillips does start it doesn't mean we will lose!

bilston · 30-06-2013 06:45PM

Lelantos wrote: »

I would say in spite of Phillips, not because of him......and Paulie was a crucial factor too imo

Again I agree but while it won't help I don't think Phillips starting definitely means we will lose that's all I was trying to say. But I would start Murray but I could understand if Gatland stuck with what he knows in Phillips. I don't think he would be as bad again anyway.

Swiwi. · 30-06-2013 06:56PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

ah you cant risk giving a guy 15mins to prove himself and then haul him off leaving no SH cover for 65 mins..... especially in the deciding test of a lions series.

phillips has had his chance and blew it.
youngs has had his chance and didnt set the world on fire

murray has been consistently good whenever hes had a chance, and should be rewarded with the jersey. hes the in form 9 of the three....

Yeah, my bad. Probably a silly suggestion, it would be a disaster if Murray was injured early on. But in any case I'd have Phillips & Murray as my 2 scrumhalves for the game.

sydthebeat · 30-06-2013 07:03PM

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Yeah, my bad. Probably a silly suggestion, it would be a disaster if Murray was injured early on. But in any case I'd have Phillips & Murray as my 2 scrumhalves for the game.

if it was your choice... who would you start?

i think murray has proven his ability at this level on this tour... and ive not been slow to slate him in previous games.

WorldRugby99 · 30-06-2013 07:07PM

pre tour many fans and most of the media thought the lions would be comfortable winners.After all-if you added likes of sexton and o connell to the all powerful,all conquering welsh team,they would be far too powerful and would crush wallabies up front.Well thats what they said,but it hasnt quite happened.And personally i dont feel too optimistic lions will win on saturday-aussies played all the rugby in melbourne and deservedly won and a better kicker/not so much injury disruption in brisbane and aussies would be winners already.we are lucky to be 1-1.

Think gats will make changes-he has to. phillips def will come in at 9.expect roberts and davies to play in centres and BOD to be controversially dropped.Ian evans,hibbard and faletau to come in up front.I think we will see a more 'welsh' team come saturday as they are more tried and tested combos - particularly as the set piece and centres-havent worked too well.its the last game,so gats wont care what critics say.i could be wrong though!

Swiwi. · 30-06-2013 07:18PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

if it was your choice... who would you start?

i think murray has proven his ability at this level on this tour... and ive not been slow to slate him in previous games.

Hmmm. Murray has been better, but can Gatland get Phillips to raise his game? I'd probably go with my first suggestion, but rather than 15 minutes, I'd tell Phillips he will be getting the first half only, unless he forces my hand. Give him something to play for.

As an aside, I'm delighted for Ireland - Murray is now confirmed as number 1, and Schmidt can go about seeking an up-and-comer for the bench. I have never seen him play, but from memory there is a guy called Marmion who's promising, apologies if I've got his playing position wrong.

Lions 2013 Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

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