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Abortion debate thread

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Comments

  • #1412
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    At the risk of going off-topic...

    Festus, do you really believe this? In the year I was born, there were just short of 4.4 billion humans, today there are over 7 billion. I'd agree that we are facing into a population crisis (although the rate of growth is slowing) but one with too many mouths, not too few.

    I'm not saying that abortion is the answer to this, because it isn't. I'm generally opposed to abortion, although it's a complicated issue that leaves me feeling pretty uncomfortable, like many people. Birth control is certainly a large part of the answer, particularly since we're getting so good at death control.

    Look at the economics of an aging population with fewer and fewer young people. There is a population problem where the replacement rate amongst "Christians" has collapsed while the "Muslim" population is growing.
    I leave it to you to figure out the ramifications.

    I'm answering because you asked. I leave it up to you if you want to go off topic.


  • #1413
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Festus wrote: »
    Look at the economics of an aging population with fewer and fewer young people. There is a population problem where the replacement rate amongst "Christians" has collapsed while the "Muslim" population is growing.
    I leave it to you to figure out the ramifications.

    I'm answering because you asked. I leave it up to you if you want to go off topic.

    Ahem!


  • #1414
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Festus wrote: »
    Look at the economics of an aging population with fewer and fewer young people. There is a population problem where the replacement rate amongst "Christians" has collapsed while the "Muslim" population is growing.
    I leave it to you to figure out the ramifications.

    I'm answering because you asked. I leave it up to you if you want to go off topic.

    In terms of how your opinions are distinctly out of kilter with a broad world-view, this is pretty on topic. From what I see here, your fears of 'the biggest threat to humanity is the falling birth rate' are not based on overall human birth rate, but on the Christian birth rate. Quite revealing tbh.

    Yes, the days of the priest instructing families to abandon their luxury items (tv, for example) in order to afford to produce more souls for the church, are long gone thankfully. Irish women no longer have to have 15+ children, thanks to contraception.


  • #1415
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    At the risk of going off-topic...

    Festus, do you really believe this? In the year I was born, there were just short of 4.4 billion humans, today there are over 7 billion. I'd agree that we are facing into a population crisis (although the rate of growth is slowing) but one with too many mouths, not too few.

    I'm not saying that abortion is the answer to this, because it isn't. I'm generally opposed to abortion, although it's a complicated issue that leaves me feeling pretty uncomfortable, like many people. Birth control is certainly a large part of the answer, particularly since we're getting so good at death control.

    I realise that it's not quite what you are talking about but this blog post Might be of interest. In short, it's about a recent NY Times article that discussed abortion in China (often forced abortions and very late, even to the point of infanticide) and how some of those leaving comments (reader comments) attempted to justify abortion a valid means of reducing population sizes.


  • #1416
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Fanny Cradock wrote: »
    I realise that it's not quite what you are talking about but this blog post Might be of interest. In short, it's about a recent NY Times article that discussed abortion in China (often forced abortions and very late, even to the point of infanticide) and how some of those leaving comments (reader comments) attempted to justify abortion a valid means of reducing population sizes.
    China's forced abortion policy is abhorrent. I wouldn't be surprised if some those supporting China's policy were those pro lifers of the more unsavoury kind. Not saying all the supporters were but I'd guess there were some.


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  • #1417
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    "pro-choicers", no?


  • #1418
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    Obliq wrote: »
    In terms of how your opinions are distinctly out of kilter with a broad world-view, this is pretty on topic. From what I see here, your fears of 'the biggest threat to humanity is the falling birth rate' are not based on overall human birth rate, but on the Christian birth rate. Quite revealing tbh.

    This is the Christianity forum and being a Catholic I would be concerned about the population of Christians in the world. What is so revealing about a Catholic posting a Christian concern, on a Christian forum?


  • #1419
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Festus wrote: »
    This is the Christianity forum and being a Catholic I would be concerned about the population of Christians in the world. What is so revealing about a Catholic posting a Christian concern, on a Christian forum?

    You are not, in fact, worried about an overall drop in human population as you initially indicated with "The biggest threat to humanity is the falling birth rate due to contraception and abortion" You have now changed your argument to one of worry about another religion becoming more influential than your own world-wide.

    Firstly you claimed concern for humanity and now you are equating the reproductive choices that people take with a drop in your religion's population. This comes across as less about concern for the death of the fetus and more about the drop in "souls for the church" - that is what is revealed.


  • #1420
    nagirrac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭nagirrac


    Zombrex wrote: »
    No offense but I don't think you do understand that argument because your responses to it have been to argue things like that if we allow a woman to terminate her foetus inside her body why not outside her body, which demonstrates that you are not following that it is the action on the woman's own body that is the issue.

    What is the argument to counter the idea of bodily autonomy and the idea that a woman has the right to control completely how her body is used?

    This is a specific type of abortion, not all abortion, in most abortions the procedure is to simply medically induce the body to expel the foetus or embryo

    The right to termination of the pregnancy is the same right you have to forcibly remove someone who has jumped on top of you.


    Zombrex, please drop the condescending "you don't understand the argument" nonsense. I campaigned in Ireland in 1983 against the proposed Constitutional amendment, so with all due respect I think I have a little background on the abortion topic.

    In an earlier post you demonstrated an incredible ignorance of human biological development by referring to a less than 28 week fetus as a clump of cells, and now you are demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge of abortion procedures. It is difficult to take your arguments seriously when you are so far off the mark factually.

    "In most abortions the procedure is simply to medically induce". Where are you getting your information from? D&E is by far the most common abortion procedure after the first trimester, and we are discussing fetal abortion not embryonic abortion (in the US, 96% of second trimester and late term abortions are done using this technique). If a fetus survives a D&E procedure this is a complete anomoly and a failure of the procedure. Furthermore, since the Supreme Court upheld the ban on partial birth abortions in 2007, late term procedures now typically include digoxin injection, to ensure a live birth does not accidently happen. Remember that live births are a disaster for an abortion provider as they typically have no ability to deal with a prematurely born human being, and it poses a significant legal issue in most juristictions.

    The central theme of your argument is based on a womans's right to complete control over her body. I agree with this right, up to fetal viability. We are dealing with the roughly 1% of abortions that are carried out after viability and are elective rather than medical emergencies. The argument against elective abortion after that point is that abortion is a procedure that kills the fetus (and no amount of arguing form you changes that fact) and a woman's right to bodily autonomy does not trump a viable fetus' right to life.

    You are making the argument as if the viable fetus suddenly arrived like an alien and invaded the woman's body, when the reality is the women concerned have in the great majority of cases given implicit consent to become pregnant, and explicit consent to carry the embryo/fetus to that point.

    Your comparisons with being attacked on the street are hopelessly off the mark. If someone physically attacks me, I assume my life is in danger, and I would do everything in my power to defend myself, and am morally and legally justified in doing so. The correct analogy is comparing to the situation where continuing with a pregnancy constitutes a serious threat to the life or health of the mother, a determination to be made by a competent medical professional.


  • #1421
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    nagirrac wrote: »
    In an earlier post you demonstrated an incredible ignorance of human biological development by referring to a less than 28 week fetus as a clump of cells

    As I see it the term is used to dehumanise the unborn. It is an ideological slogan rather than a statement of biology. Yet in a very loose sense I don't think there is anything factually wrong with the statement "clump of cells". It's just that it really doesn't tell us anything about the life in question or what it means to be human. And this is because we are all - each and everyone of us - just clumps of cells* by a certain definition. It does, however, tell us a lot about the position somebody is trying to promote.

    * Needless to say Christianity holds that were are more than mere matter but that's a side debate.


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  • #1422
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,175 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Festus wrote: »
    Ah, that old canard. It has been used many times in arguments to relax the abortion and contraceptive laws where they exist and all that happens is the number of abortions increases. The fact is abortion exists because contraceptives don't work, or fail - same difference, and people seem to think that sex is about recreation and not procreation. The countries with the highest availablity of contraceptives also have the highest abortion rates. There is almost nowhere in the world where condoms are not available one way or another. The US and the UK make chemical contraceptives available to teenagers too and still they have high abortion rates.

    The problem with education is that sex education is telling kids it's ok to have sex, but not telling them that there are consequences, especially if you are young and unmarried. There is also a problem in that there is no practical aspect to the education. I'm not saying there should be, in fact I think schools should rethink their whole sex education programs. What I am saying is that the current sex education programs will not work without a practical aspect.
    There are ways and means of teaching kids about sex but the way it is currently being done in schools is clearly not working.
    A better way would be for parents to teach their kids about sex.
    But I think that really deserves a thread of its own.

    Anyway, you seem to think there is such a thing as a right to complication free sex. Or casual sex as the rest of us call it.

    We are human beings, So, what some of us need to do is learn to control our urges and stop behaving like animals.

    Abstinence-only sex education does not work.


  • #1423
    otto_26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    The fact still remains that Reagan gave weapons to far-right dictators.

    That's great but why you bringing it up in this thread?
    Start a thread about weapons to far-right dictators... :rolleyes:


  • #1424
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Jernal wrote: »
    I do have one more question though:
    If you were in burning building filled with a puppy and a container that contained those 400 million embryos and you only had time to save the container or the puppy but not both, which would you save?

    OK, so I said that this though experiment fails and I'll outline briefly why this is so.

    1) It is a false analogy. Choosing to save A over B is not the same as killing B. The analogy would be more accurate if on the way out of the burning lab with embryos safely tucked under arm (you would need an arm like Gulliver to carry 400 million embryos, btw) you then proceeded to kill the puppy - ideally by dismemberment or poisoning (just like abortion).

    2) Again, the lab is ablaze but this time it was a choice between your daughter (replace with appropriate loved one if desired) and a host of lab technicians. Now if you chose to save your daughter over the lives of the others would it demonstrate that the lab worker were not human?

    BTW, in the above scenario I think that I would choose to save the embryos.


    mobert wrote:
    Yes, just as I would be in favour of punishing a drunk driver even if he/she does not injure anybody.

    I asked if this was not an argument from potentiality. Your response is above. Correct me if I am wrong, but have you not already argued that you reject arguments from potentiality?

    Another thought experiment for you.

    Lets say there exists a rare "mind virus" (and, no, it's not religion) that effectively shuts down all the brain functions of those unlucky enough to be infected bar whatever functions are required to sustain life (respiration etc). Now lets suppose that this virus is known to die after 6 months and after this time the patient gradually recovers cognition over the following days, months and years.

    Given that you don't accept arguments from potentiality (and please feel free to clear that one up because I'm a little confused) would we be allowed to kill those infected with the virus?


  • #1425
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Just to add, I think that more could be said about the "burning lab" and "violins" thought experiments. I don't have time at the mo but I think this article offers a good overview of some of the arguments against.


  • #1426
    Popular Hardback
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 128 ✭✭Popular Hardback


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    At the risk of going off-topic...

    Festus, do you really believe this? In the year I was born, there were just short of 4.4 billion humans, today there are over 7 billion. I'd agree that we are facing into a population crisis (although the rate of growth is slowing) but one with too many mouths, not too few.

    Overpopulation is a myth used by both the pro abortion and life-prevention lobby.

    Human greed, politics, conflicts and wars causes shortages, not population.

    For example, hypothetically if the Earth's entire population lived at the current density of New York City, the World's entire 7 billion population could comfortably live in an area the size of the state of Texas.

    With just over half the daily average outflow of the Columbia River, their entire freshwater needs could be met, and the existing farmland in the US could feed the entire 7 billion easily.

    It's an ill divided world, not an overpopulated world.


  • #1427
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Popular Hardback wrote: »
    Overpopulation is a myth used by the pro abortion pro life prevention lobby , human greed, politics, conflicts and wars causes shortages, not population.

    For example, hypothetically if the earths entire population lived at the density they do in New York City, the worlds entire 7 billion population could comfortably live in an area the size of the state of Texas.

    With just over half the daily average outflow of the Columbia River, their entire freshwater needs could be met, and the existing farmland in the US could feed the entire 7 billion easily.

    It's an ill divided world, not an overpopulated world.
    You're dead right.
    It's also ethically a very long way from aborting a mother whose life is seriously and imminently at risk ... to abortion being used as a population control mechanism!!!
    ... but I suspect that the latter type of thinking is actually one of the main reasons behind worldwide abortion currently.


  • #1428
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Anybody ever heard of Dr. Kermit Gosnell?

    I hadn't ... until very recently ... yet he has been tried and convicted on three counts of first degree murder of aborted children and he was also found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in the overdose death of an abortion patient.
    Prosecutors said that Dr Gosnell delivered babies alive and then killed them by snipping their spinal chords in his abortion clinic in Philadelphia.

    He faced the death sentence himself, but this week he was sentenced to life in prison without parole. The sentences are consecutive, meaning Dr Gosnell, 72, will spend the rest of his life in prison.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/15/gosnell-gets-life-in-prison-no-parole/#ixzz2UPk3dg9B

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100216703/kermit-gosnell-found-guilty-in-abortion-trial-a-victory-for-human-rights-that-will-shame-many/

    Quote:-
    "Midway through the six-week trial, anti-abortion activists accused the mainstream media of ignoring the case because it reflected badly on the abortion rights cause. Major news organizations denied the allegation, though a number promptly sent reporters to cover the trial.

    Four former clinic employees had previously pleaded guilty to murder and four more to other charges. They include Gosnell's wife, Pearl, a cosmetologist who helped perform abortions."

    The trial has been ongoing for the past two months.


  • #1429
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Abstinence-only sex education does not work.

    That's a school based program. What's your point? I have already stated that school based programs do not work :rolleyes:


  • #1430
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    Obliq wrote: »
    You are not, in fact, worried about an overall drop in human population as you initially indicated with "The biggest threat to humanity is the falling birth rate due to contraception and abortion" You have now changed your argument to one of worry about another religion becoming more influential than your own world-wide.

    Firstly you claimed concern for humanity and now you are equating the reproductive choices that people take with a drop in your religion's population. This comes across as less about concern for the death of the fetus and more about the drop in "souls for the church" - that is what is revealed.

    If instead of "Christian" I said "Western" would that have stopped you putting your words in my mouth?

    Replacement rates in the West are falling thanks to people believing the population myth and that damages economics amongst others. Yet the world population is rising so the birth rate in other parts of the world must be rising. Sooner or later those with the higher birth rate will replace those,with the lower. Those with the rising birth rate are not "Westernized" and many are not Christian either.
    If I were you, rather than trying to score cheap points, I would start imagining a Western world that no longer has "Christians" ruling it and decide if you think you will like it.

    My argument has not changed. Nor is it polarizing. Polarized perhaps but it's been that way since I first read the medical texts for "obstetricians" on how to perform abortions at various stages. I had already complete studies in science and had no doubt, then or now, that the life of every new human being begins at conception, and have yet to find any scientific argument to counter that. Since then I have tried to educate myself on the truth of what is happening in the world and why the Catholic Church teaches what it does. It turns out that the Catholic Church does not teach anything that is likely to damage individuals, the world, or its population, though I doubt you would agree. People who have a different opinion are in my experience generally poorly educated, ill informed, sectarian, selfish and or just plain indulgently sinful, and any or all of those though not necessarily in that order. If you want to fire on that feel free but I urge you to limit yourself to what the Church actually teaches, and not what you think it teaches.

    As far as this thread is concerned the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is the killing of a human being and scientifically there is no argument against that.

    That makes Kenny, the current Government, FG and FF pro-choice as their current position on the proposed law stands.


  • #1431
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    Popular Hardback wrote: »
    Overpopulation is a myth used by both the pro abortion and life-prevention lobby.

    Human greed, politics, conflicts and wars causes shortages, not population.

    For example, hypothetically if the Earth's entire population lived at the current density of New York City, the World's entire 7 billion population could comfortably live in an area the size of the state of Texas.

    With just over half the daily average outflow of the Columbia River, their entire freshwater needs could be met, and the existing farmland in the US could feed the entire 7 billion easily.

    It's an ill divided world, not an overpopulated world.

    A few years ago it used to be the Isle of Wight but only if you took the word "comfortably" out of the sentence;)

    Not so long ago Ireland could 'comfortably' sustain a population in excess of 8 million.

    There are a lot of issues here but I remember someone trying to convince me years ago of the population myth by using cattle for beef production in his argument. In a nutshell these cattle eat too much grain. And that's a problem. He was also an atheist and a vegetarian but that's beside the point.
    My response - "well perhaps we eat too much beef and maybe the cattle should be eating grass. Besides, there's a lot to be said for eating fish of a Friday; it brings and almost immediate 14% reduction in meat consumption"

    Add in one other day and that's 28% - yet people spend good money on the 5:2 diet books. Go figure.


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  • #1432
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    J C wrote: »
    Anybody ever heard of Dr. Kermit Gosnell?

    I hadn't ... until very recently ... yet he has been tried and convicted on three counts of first degree murder of aborted children and he was also found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in the overdose death of an abortion patient.
    Prosecutors said that Dr Gosnell delivered babies alive and then killed them by snipping their spinal chords in his abortion clinic in Philadelphia.

    He faced the death sentence himself, but this week he was sentenced to life in prison without parole. The sentences are consecutive, meaning Dr Gosnell, 72, will spend the rest of his life in prison.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/15/gosnell-gets-life-in-prison-no-parole/#ixzz2UPk3dg9B

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100216703/kermit-gosnell-found-guilty-in-abortion-trial-a-victory-for-human-rights-that-will-shame-many/

    Quote:-
    "Midway through the six-week trial, anti-abortion activists accused the mainstream media of ignoring the case because it reflected badly on the abortion rights cause. Major news organizations denied the allegation, though a number promptly sent reporters to cover the trial.

    Four former clinic employees had previously pleaded guilty to murder and four more to other charges. They include Gosnell's wife, Pearl, a cosmetologist who helped perform abortions."

    The trial has been ongoing for the past two months.

    I've been following the case. Media unbelievably silent in light of what went on. When you consider the Savita case especially. Its no surprise though is it? People are being fed all sorts of agenda's.


  • #1433
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,175 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    JimiTime wrote: »
    I've been following the case. Media unbelievably silent in light of what went on. When you consider the Savita case especially. Its no surprise though is it? People are being fed all sorts of agenda's.

    1st bolded sentence: The case of Dr. Gosnell has already been reported in various media outlets, as other posters have tried to point that out to you.

    BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q=gosnell - has articles since January 2011

    CNN: http://edition.cnn.com/search/?query=gosnell&x=-1066&y=-31&primaryType=mixed&sortBy=relevance&intl=true - also has articles since January 2011

    Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/search?blob=gosnell&pn=5 - January 2011


  • #1434
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    1st bolded sentence: The case of Dr. Gosnell has already been reported in various media outlets, as other posters have tried to point that out to you.

    BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q=gosnell - has articles since January 2011

    CNN: http://edition.cnn.com/search/?query=gosnell&x=-1066&y=-31&primaryType=mixed&sortBy=relevance&intl=true - also has articles since January 2011

    Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/search?blob=gosnell&pn=5 - January 2011

    You can deny it all you want, but in order to find the Gosnell case, you have to go looking or come across it by chance, and the details of it are absolutely shocking. Whereas, the media seem to love a tale that they can spin as 'Lack of abortion kills woman'. The Gosnell case is an also ran story, whereas something like the Savita case was unavoidable.


  • #1435
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,107 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    JimiTime wrote: »
    You can deny it all you want, but in order to find the Gosnell case, you have to go looking or come across it by chance, and the details of it are absolutely shocking. Whereas, the media seem to love a tale that they can spin as 'Lack of abortion kills woman'. The Gosnell case is an also ran story, whereas something like the Savita case was unavoidable.
    Savita died in an Irish hospital whereas the Gosnell case is happening in the US. You might have a point if Gosnell happened in Ireland and there was little or no reporting.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #1436
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    koth wrote: »
    Savita died in an Irish hospital whereas the Gosnell case is happening in the US. You might have a point if Gosnell happened in Ireland and there was little or no reporting.

    It was the same in America (Not that the fact that its in the US actually does matter, as these kinds of stories are global news). I have a feeling that it wouldn't matter what was the case to some of you though.


  • #1437
    georgieporgy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭georgieporgy


    "Dr" Douglas Karpen from Houston, is still in business, but thanks to efforts of prolife individuals the authorities are now being embarrassed into having to investigate him. He seems to take infanticide in his stride. Instead of neatly snipping the baby's spinal cord he simply cuts their throats.

    Some of his staff couldn't take it any longer so they used their mobiles to collect evidence. Follow the link to view the graphic images if you wish .

    http://www.lifenews.com/2013/05/15/another-gosnell-report-shows-texas-abortion-doc-kills-babies-born-alive/

    PS if you click on the link you can read the full article. It will not take you directly to the photographic evidence. That requires an extra click.


  • #1438
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    koth wrote: »
    Savita died in an Irish hospital whereas the Gosnell case is happening in the US. You might have a point if Gosnell happened in Ireland and there was little or no reporting.

    Whatever about now, I would have thought that the point was that the international press as well as US domestic press wasn't initially reporting on it. In response to PopePalpatine's defence of the press coverage, I've previously posted a link to a letter signed by 70 odd congress representatives who were concerned that at least one major news network (CNN or the like) had not adequately covered the story.

    On the BBC I counted 7 articles that referenced Kermett Gosnell. This is as opposed to over 60 for Savita Halappanavar. There were approximately 9 on the Guardian, a number of which were found in the "Comment is Free" section, which are opinion pieces and not to be confused with journalism. Now compare this to a word search like "Game of Throwns".

    Now this might just be down to location but that wouldn't explain why ABC news took all of 56 days to report on the trial. I think that this post from the excellent getreligion.org sums up a lot of people's opinion on the matter.


  • #1439
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    1st bolded sentence: The case of Dr. Gosnell has already been reported in various media outlets, as other posters have tried to point that out to you.

    BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/?q=gosnell - has articles since January 2011

    CNN: http://edition.cnn.com/search/?query=gosnell&x=-1066&y=-31&primaryType=mixed&sortBy=relevance&intl=true - also has articles since January 2011

    Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/search?blob=gosnell&pn=5 - January 2011
    No Irish media links???


  • #1440
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,107 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    No Irish media links???

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/us-abortion-doctor-found-guilty-of-murder-1.1392098

    http://www.thejournal.ie/kermit-gosnell-verdict-907406-May2013/

    http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/monster-doctor-gets-three-life-sentences-for-baby-murders-29270336.html

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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  • #1441
    HurtLocker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭HurtLocker


    J C wrote: »
    No Irish media links???

    http://www.rte.ie/news/special-reports/2013/0430/389089-kermit-gosnell-philadelphia/

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/caitriona-palmer-grisly-gosnell-trial-reawakens-us-abortion-debate-29271116.html

    It didnt happen here. The public doesn't care, you hardly expect the media to push it much. It's not our health service not even close. Irish people focus on whats happened here.


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