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Thevenin theorem problem

  • 21-05-2013 02:10PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭


    I cannot get my head around this question, lecturer put up no notes on Thevenin and didn't cover it in class. I've looked online but am more confused by some of the explanations on how to work it out.

    Can anyone explain it to me?!

    kirchovthevenin_zps9aae87fe.jpg


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭KeithTS


    Right its been a while since I've touched this kinda thing so I may have a mistake here, check my details as you go along.

    Also check this out as it could help:
    http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/dccircuits/dcp_7.html

    Right,
    Firstly, the theorem essentially states that any (linear) system can be reduced down to a single voltage source with a series resistance and load resistance.

    Step 1)
    Remove the load from your circuit, this leaves you with a series circuit with the two sources and resistances of 1 Ohm and 2 Ohm.

    Step 2)
    Remove the voltage sources, this leaves just the resistances, note that they are now in || as both ends are connected together.
    Calculate the equivalent resistance,

    This is worked out as (R1*R2)/(R1+R2) = (2*1)/ (2+1) = 0.67 Ohms - This will be your series resistance in the Thevenin equivalent circuit.

    Step 3)
    Put the sources back in and calculate the current using ohms law:
    It's in series so you get (10-3)V / (1+2)Ohms = 2.33A

    Step 4)
    Using this current in the series circuit - remember the load (5 Ohm) is still taken out, calculate the voltage drop across the 1Ohm resistor.
    This drop is 2.33A * 1 Ohm = 2.33V
    Using this the voltage at the node between the two resistors is (7V - 2.33V) = 4.67V

    The 7V comes from 10V - 3V

    Step 5)
    The 4.67V is the equivalent voltage for our equivalent circuit.

    Draw the circuit - this is detailed in the link above -
    you get aa 4.67V source in series with the 0.67 Ohm series resistance and the 5 Ohm load.

    Using Ohms law the current is 4.67 / 5.67 = 0.823
    Therefore, the drop across the load is 5*0.823 = 4.12V


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭Captain Slow IRL


    Thanks, I had gotten as far as 0.6666 ohms in place of the 2 resistors!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭KeithTS


    No bother at all


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭Captain Slow IRL


    EDIT: nevermind, got it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭Captain Slow IRL


    KeithTS wrote: »
    Step 4)
    Using this current in the series circuit - remember the load (5 Ohm) is still taken out, calculate the voltage drop across the 1Ohm resistor.
    This drop is 2.33A * 1 Ohm = 2.33V
    Using this the voltage at the node between the two resistors is (7V - 2.33V) = 4.67V

    The 7V comes from 10V - 3V

    There are 2 nodes between the 2 resistors, which one are you referring to or does it matter? (top or bottom)

    Why do you not take the 2 ohm resistor into the equation? Why just the 1 ohm?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭KeithTS


    I'm taking the node at the bottom, between the two resistors.

    Starting at the 10V source if you follow the series circuit around you get +10V - 3V = 7V, then you come to the first resistor which is 1ohm, you calculate the drop across that as V = RI = 2.33V.
    This is the voltage dropped across the 1 ohm resistor, to find the current after the 1 ohm resistor subtract what was dropped across it from 7, 7V is the voltage we had before the resistor.
    this is the voltage at the node between the resistors at the bottom.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Looks to me (from the diagram) that the voltages add, 10V + 3V, going around the loop, as the 3V cell is shown inverted in the diagram.

    *Edit* assuming the 3V cell is upside down, compared to the 10V Cell, then the voltages add and the current in the 5 Ohm resistor should be about 235 mA.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭KeithTS


    My bad,

    You're right, you add the voltages as they acting in the same direction


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭swampgas


    You can redraw the circuit as follows, which I find easier as the voltage sources are both positive on the top.
             -------[ 1R ]-------
             |        i1 ->     |
             |                  |
           ----- +              |
            3V                  |
             -   -              |
             |                  |
         A   -------[ 5R ]-------  B
             |        i2 ->     |
             |                  |
           ----- +              |
            10V                 |
             -   -              |
             |                  |
             |                  |
             -------[ 2R ]-------
                      i3 ->
    
    Kirchhoff's Laws:
            Voltage A to B is same on all three paths:
                 -3 + i1 * 1  =  i2 * 5  =  10V + i3 * 2            (1)
            
            Current at B sums to zero:
                i1 + i2 + i3 = 0                                    (2)
                
            Using (1), we can express both i2 and i3 in terms of i1:
                i2 = (i1 - 3 ) / 5                                    (3)
                i3 = (i1 - 13) / 2                                    (4)
            
            Substituting for i2 and i3 in (2), we get:
    
                i1 + (i1-3)/5 + (i1-13)/2 = 0
            
            Simplify by multiplying by 10:
                10i1 + 2i1 - 6 + 5i1 - 65 = 0 
                17i1 - 71 = 0
                
                i1 = 71/17 = 4.17647 A                                (5)
                
            From (3) and (4):
                
                i2 = (4.16647 - 3) / 5 =  0.23329 A   (actually   4/17 A =  0.235294118)
                i3 = (4.16647 -13) / 2 = -4.41677 A   (actually -75/17 A = -4.411764706)
            
            i2, the current in the 5 Ohm resistor:  235 mA    A to B
            
            Other currents:       1 Ohm resistor: 4.176 Amps  A to B 
                                  2 Ohm resistor: 4.411 Amps  B to A
    
    
    Thevenin:
    
            Consider 5 Ohm load on AB as "load", and calculate equivalent 
            Vs and Rs for the rest of the circuit.  (This way we can change 
            the 5 Ohm resistor to other values and easily determine the 
            new current.)
    
             -------[ 1R ]-------
             |                  |
             |                  |
           ----- +              |
            3V                  |
             -   -              |
             |                  |
             ----- A      B ----- 
             |                  |
             |                  |
           ----- +              |
            10V                 |
             -   -              |
             |                  |
             |                  |
             -------[ 2R ]-------
                     
            
            Step 1: Remove 5 Ohm resistor, short all Voltage sources and 
                       calculate R(AB).  Effectively we have a 1 Ohm and a 2 Ohm
                       resistor in parallel, result is 2/3 Ohm or approx 0.6667 Ohms.
                       This is equivalent series resistance Rs.
            
            Next we consider the Voltage across AB at no load.  
            The current running through our no-load circuit is 
            13V / (1+2) = 4.333 A.   If 4.333A runs through a 1 Ohm
            resistor, we get a voltage drop of 4.333V.
            The left side of the resistor is 3V above the Voltage at A, so the 
            no load voltage across AB is 4.333V - 3V = 1.333V, i.e. 
            we find that A is +ve wrt B.
     
            So Vs = +1.333V, this is our equivalent voltage value.
            
            Equivalent circuit:
            
                 -------[ 0.6667 ] -------
                 |                       |
                 |     +                 A
               1.333 V
                 |   -                   B
                 |                       |
                 -------------------------
            
            So what happens when we put a 5 Ohm resistor between A and B?
    
                 -------[ 0.6667 ] -------
                 |                       |
                 |   +                   |      A
               1.333 V                 5.0 Ohms
                 |   -                   |      B
                 |                       |
                 -------------------------
            
            We get a current of 1.333 V / (5 + 0.6667 Ohms) =  235 mA, 
            running from A to B.
            
            (Actually it's (4/3) / (5 + 2/3) = 4/17 = 235.294118 mA, but that's
             close enough!)
    

    HTH


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