Property Tax (MOD REMINDER: Don't get too personal)

Hijpo wrote: »

In what context are you using creditor and give an example

In the context of the Revenue getting outstanding tax paid from an estate of course.

Hijpo wrote: »

Who are the creditors in that situation, the government?

The Revenue. Where are you going with this? If its Freeman codology, I'm not interested.

I love paying taxes.

oscarBravo wrote: »

Revenue themselves.

Oh right, its just that a quick google states that A *creditor* is a party (e.g. person, organization, company, or government) that has a claim on the services of a second party. It is a person or institution to whom money is owed. the first party, in general, has provided some property or service to the second party under the assumption that the second party will return an equivalent property and service. The second party is frequently called a debtor or borrower.

I recieved my house from a developer and the funds from a bank, revenue havent given me any property or service that puts me in there debt yet they manage to credit themselves with an object that is in negative equity which does not generate an income for the owners.

No freeman ideologies here. Dont believe in the stuff, its complete nonsence.

Hijpo wrote: »

I recieved my house from a developer and the funds from a bank, revenue havent given me any property or service that puts me in there debt yet they manage to credit themselves with an object that is in negative equity which does not generate an income for the owners.

You must be living completely off the grid.

Hijpo wrote: »

No freeman ideologies here. Dont believe in the stuff, its complete nonsence.

And rejecting the idea that Revenue can be creditors is just as much nonsense as you hear from the Freemen.

Hijpo wrote: »

Are you in reciept of something from them?
They way your going on i wouldnt be suprised if your answer was a salary

This is just getting silly. Without the Revenue service, no other service in the country would exist, so we all benefit from their services.

Not that it makes a bit of difference whether you think you get a service from them or not. They are creditors for unpaid tax and they do have a legal right to collect outstanding LPT from estates.

Phoebas wrote: »

No. But the deferrals are open ended, so an OAP who is never able to afford it will never pay it.
.......
Do you think its just to collect outstanding credit card bills or utility bills or outstanding mortgages repayments from long term social welfare recipients getting back to work?

Re deferal ... so LPT will never be collected from the estate ???

Outstanding credit card bills etc are voluntary ... not so with
the Enforced, Unjust, Unfair and Cruel LPT .... and your asking a question is not answering my question and you give no justification for cruel LPT levied on the poor. Face it ... you cannot justify LPT on the poor.

To say its the law is no justification .. rem Hitler legally attacked England and but for a few quirks of fate we would now all be by law (Hitler's) only speaking German unless we resisted just as we should resist an equally unjust and immoral LPT.
In fact according to Jefferson we all have a duty to resist an unjust law.

cageyeuclid wrote: »

Re deferal ... so LPT will never be collected from the estate ???

Your OAP will never pay it, but his estate will.

cageyeuclid wrote: »

Outstanding credit card bills etc are voluntary ... not so with
the Enforced, Unjust, Unfair and Cruel LPT .... and your asking a question is not answering my question and you give no justification for cruel LPT levied on the poor. Face it ... you cannot justify LPT on the poor.

The 'poor' property owner has a deferral option. I can't think of any other tax that affords a deferral to the 'poor'.

Of course property ownership is also voluntary, so should 'the poor' also be exempt from mortgages repayments too?

cageyeuclid wrote: »

To say its the law is no justification .. rem Hitler legally attacked England and but for a few quirks of fate we would now all be by law (Hitler's) only speaking German unless we resisted just as we should resist an equally unjust and immoral LPT.
In fact according to Jefferson we all have a duty to resist an unjust law.

We're starting to wander down crazy street now!!!

Phoebas wrote: »

...
We're starting to wander down crazy street now!!!

So you think it is crazy to resist UNJUST, UNFAIR and CRUEL LPT because it is the law.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

You're comparing the local property tax to Hitler's conquest of Europe?

Dont be silly ... Cruel LPT is a serious issue.

Hitler did things legally .. an extreme example that Law does not make things JUST. ... and law certainly does not make LPT just.

I guess ther is no point quoting Jefferson again?

tayto lover wrote: »

The poor were given the choice whether to own property or not.
They were not given the choice of paying LPT. It was forced on them.

True enough, but the logical extension (of the argument I think you are trying to make) is that no taxes or tax rates should ever change because people don't have a choice about them (at least the taxes that are non discretionary).
I'd have sympathy for that view if the LPT rate was very high, but its quite modest, especially for home owners in the lowest bands.

cageyeuclid wrote: »

Do you have a URL re “excessive hardship amendments” that is news to me ... please post it.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/lpt/deferring-payment.html

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I suppose you could quote Jefferson again, but it doesn't really explain why taxing property is so unjust.

I will post again later the full unjust side of LPT ... but in the meantime you might read my earlier posts.

I dont think taxing property that is creating revenue is unjust .. taxing a family home and especially tax without an "ability to pay" clause and LPT waivers is unjust.

The ordinary family home creates no revenue for the owner ... no revenue = no tax due. In fact the owner already pays tax on repairs and maintenance, so the family home is more a liability than an earning asset.

Stamp duty already taken makes LPT triple (or more ) taxation.