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Jonny Sexton leaving Leinster *mod warning post 1*

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    He asked for a matching contract offer to Heaslip. The IRFU were trying to play hardball offering him 300k.

    I know a lot of posters are saying 'well if he really wanted to stay he should have accepted the offer' but come on, for a player of his ability and importance, the IRFU were completely trying to cheat him out of the contract that he deserved. Considering how short the careers of rugby players are, there is no way Sexton should be looked down upon for not accepting what is frankly a joke of an offer for a player of his quality.

    The IRFU are a shower of jokers. Ronan O'Gara signed a 350k contract in 2011 when he was on a serious decline and finances were at their lowest. Not trying to turn this into a ROG v Sexton thing but to put it in perspective, his opposite flyhalf got a contract for 350k, 2 years before the IRFU refused Sexton 400k and at a time when Sexton had won 3 HC cups, was an Ireland starter, and likely Lions test starter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    jm08 wrote: »
    Tom Grace (who controls the IRFU's purse strings) is about as far from an amateur as you could get.

    Sexton was used as a high profile example that the IRFU were not going to entertain what they would consider to be unsustainable wage demands.

    It's not RTE*, wages should be determined by the market, If a player could get more elsewhere then their value is increased and they should rightly get offered more by the IRFU.


    *the RTE reference is thrown in because they get paid over the odds despite there being no market reasoning for their wages.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    I heard the IRFU blazers all wore big headphones going into the meeting, Sexton and his agent weren't intimidated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Bogota wrote: »
    He asked for a matching contract offer to Heaslip. The IRFU were trying to play hardball offering him 300k.

    I know a lot of posters are saying 'well if he really wanted to stay he should have accepted the offer' but come on, for a player of his ability and importance, the IRFU were completely trying to cheat him out of the contract that he deserved. Considering how short the careers of rugby players are, there is no way Sexton should be looked down upon for not accepting what is frankly a joke of an offer for a player of his quality.

    The IRFU are a shower of jokers. Ronan O'Gara signed a 350k contract in 2011 when he was on a serious decline and finances were at their lowest. Not trying to turn this into a ROG v Sexton thing but to put it in perspective, his opposite flyhalf got a contract for 350k, 2 years before the IRFU refused Sexton 400k and at a time when Sexton had won 3 HC cups, was an Ireland starter, and likely Lions test starter.


    Source?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    jm08 wrote: »
    Tom Grace (who controls the IRFU's purse strings) is about as far from an amateur as you could get.

    Sexton was used as a high profile example that the IRFU were not going to entertain what they would consider to be unsustainable wage demands.

    You seem to have a good hard on for the IRFU top brass, and like to name drop, just like on MF, but how is matching salary with Heaslip for the best FH in Europe 'unsustainable'?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Not this can of worms again!

    Obviously the value/premium Sexton placed on playing for Leinster wasn't enough to make up for the difference between the two salaries he was offered. Nothing much else to it.

    Pretty much and, if truth be told, he'd have been a nut to take what he was being offered ahead of what Racing put on the table.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    jm08 wrote: »
    Sexton was used as a high profile example that the IRFU were not going to entertain what they would consider to be unsustainable wage demands.

    Except they did put on the table what was being sought.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    It's not RTE*, wages should be determined by the market, If a player could get more elsewhere then their value is increased and they should rightly get offered more by the IRFU.


    *the RTE reference is thrown in because they get paid over the odds despite there being no market reasoning for their wages.

    So Sexton's value to the IRFU/Leinster decreased with the emergence of Madigan.

    ROG had the IRFU over a gun because if he moved to France and decided to not make himself available to Ireland, Ireland would have had Paddy Wallace as the starting outhalf.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    So, Heaslip is the reason that Sexton isn't at Leinster next season? :confused:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 373 ✭✭Ruck Inspector


    Making the switch from his home province to Racing was a wrench ‘of course’, says Sexton, and was both a tough and a strange decision. He said, “I love Leinster but the people that are involved [with contract negotiations] are not involved with Leinster. I don’t deal with Leinster even if, like, they want to keep you for four years.
    The IRFU, obviously, have a different plan to Leinster and myself and, listen, that’s fine. I’ve no hard feelings towards them. They made the decision. They didn’t rate me as highly as I rated myself, maybe. There was something in the relationship, there, were we didn’t see eye to eye. I said that I was going to do something if something else wasn’t done and I stuck to my word. It’s never an easy thing.”
    “You’ve got a short career,” Sexton added, “and I’m never one for looking only at the contract side of things; there’s a bigger picture. At the same time, you’re an injury away [from possible retirement] and, the longer the negotiations went on, the more eager I was to get something done and sorted out. I felt there was a fantastic opportunity in front of me even though, at the time, I was very sad to leave.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 373 ✭✭Ruck Inspector


    So, Heaslip is the reason that Sexton isn't at Leinster next season? :confused:

    how can anyone take that from what was said.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 373 ✭✭Ruck Inspector


    jm08 wrote: »
    ROG had the IRFU over a gun because if he moved to France and decided to not make himself available to Ireland, Ireland would have had Paddy Wallace as the starting outhalf.

    in 2011? bollix


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Buer wrote: »
    Except they did put on the table what was being sought.

    I think I might have read somewhere that there was a difference of 50K per annum or something like that in it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    In a way it makes sense if the IRFU value Heaslip over Sexton given the rich amount of talent we have at 10 in comparison to the huge fall off behind Heaslip at 8


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    jm08 wrote: »
    So Sexton's value to the IRFU/Leinster decreased with the emergence of Madigan.

    ROG had the IRFU over a gun because if he moved to France and decided to not make himself available to Ireland, Ireland would have had Paddy Wallace as the starting outhalf.

    I see your point but, but i also wouldn't agree that Madigan made to much impact in the equation, it's not as if they're fighting for the Irish 10 shirt, Madigan only has 2 caps.

    The fact remains that Sextons worth was determined by the value other teams were willing to spend on him. The IRFU didn't seem to take this into account.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    trouttrout wrote: »
    Source?

    Me. I know him personally, was in Jerry's year and play at the club.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Bogota wrote: »
    Me. I know him personally, was in Jerry's year and play at the club.

    ah that ole nugget. Fair enough

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRfIRibtn9pcYHw7FOyOb4UAxmr8y75rFVkgrk0nVnaDzy3mT8C


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    jm08 wrote: »
    I think I might have read somewhere that there was a difference of 50K per annum or something like that in it.

    Where?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    in 2011? bollix

    2 year contract in 2010 (a year before the world cup).

    350K actually wasn't huge money back then if you consider what ROG could have earned in France if he left Ireland around 2006/7 when he was much in demand there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Wages in France were nowhere near as astronomical back in 2006/07 as they are now.

    And yes, €350k has always been huge money in Irish rugby. Only a few players have ever pocketed more than that.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    I'd love to know if people think 400k was too much of a demand from Johnny, or was it fair?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 373 ✭✭Ruck Inspector


    jm08 wrote: »
    2 year contract in 2010 (a year before the world cup).

    350K actually wasn't huge money back then if you consider what ROG could have earned in France if he left Ireland around 2006/7 when he was much in demand there.

    Fine then 2010, Sexton was already there by then.

    Not sure how ROG signed a 2 year deal in 2010 and his contract is up this summer.

    I wonder if the foot was on the other shoe and it was a Munster player would Munster fans be so critical of the player and defensive of the IRFU.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    .ak wrote: »
    I'd love to know if people think 400k was too much of a demand from Johnny, or was it fair?

    Impossible to say really considering we don't know anything about the financial makeup of the IRFU

    I certainly think he should be on as much as any Irish player


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    trouttrout wrote: »
    ah that ole nugget. Fair enough

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRfIRibtn9pcYHw7FOyOb4UAxmr8y75rFVkgrk0nVnaDzy3mT8C

    See attachment and try not to be so cynical in future. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    jm08 wrote: »
    2 year contract in 2010 (a year before the world cup).

    350K actually wasn't huge money back then if you consider what ROG could have earned in France if he left Ireland around 2006/7 when he was much in demand there.

    A 2 year contract for 11/12 and 12/13. What he could have earned in France if he left Ireland in 06/07 shouldn't come into it.

    In fairness ROG wasn't going to leave Ireland in 11/12 or 12/13. The loss of the tax break would have been too big a hit. From another point of view during that contract ROG has started a grand total of five games. Two RWC warmups, and Russia, Italy Wales in the RWC.

    Thats not deserving for a 350K a year contract.
    Not sure how ROG signed a 2 year deal in 2010 and his contract is up this summer.

    signed Nov 2010 for 11/12 and 12/13


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Bogota wrote: »
    See attachment and try not to be so cynical in future. :rolleyes:

    haha, well played

    Infairness though you can't blame me for being cynical to the ole "I know him personally" as a means of baking something up on an anonymous forum


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    Fine then 2010, Sexton was already there by then.

    Not sure how ROG signed a 2 year deal in 2010 and his contract is up this summer.

    I wonder if the foot was on the other shoe and it was a Munster player would Munster fans be so critical of the player and defensive of the IRFU.

    Exactly, if people are saying the emergence of Madigan meant that Sexton lowered Sexton's currency then why was an ageing out of form ROG able to get 350k when Sexton had burst onto the scene the year before? Keatley had signed for Munster a few weeks after ROG signed his contract so its not like Munster were up **** creek without a paddle...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,507 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Still not too late to undo this madness. I'm sure Jimmy Gopperth will find gainful employment elsewhere........;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭vkid


    Fine then 2010, Sexton was already there by then.

    Not sure how ROG signed a 2 year deal in 2010 and his contract is up this summer.

    I wonder if the foot was on the other shoe and it was a Munster player would Munster fans be so critical of the player and defensive of the IRFU.

    Munstet has nothing to do with it. Long and short of it is sexton wanted more money. He got it in france and left. Same as any other job. If your current employer does nt want to pay the bucks, then you go elsewhere. No one is entitled to anything including sexton from the irfu. If he wanted to stay he could have but left for more money. Its that simple.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭whadafook


    .ak wrote: »
    I'd love to know if people think 400k was too much of a demand from Johnny, or was it fair?

    In my view fair - he is our most important player.

    Has anyone considered that IRFU already have the plans in place to sack Kidney and need the budget for new coach and backroom team? That's some conspiracy theory right there!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    A 2 year contract for 11/12 and 12/13. What he could have earned in France if he left Ireland in 06/07 shouldn't come into it.

    ROG is very highly rated in France (look at what Wilko is earning). And of course it would have come into it - if the IRFU didn't show loyalty to O'Gara having turned down big offers from France when he was at his best, other up and coming players were not going to stick around.
    In fairness ROG wasn't going to leave Ireland in 11/12 or 12/13. The loss of the tax break would have been too big a hit. From another point of view during that contract ROG has started a grand total of five games. Two RWC warmups, and Russia, Italy Wales in the RWC.

    Peter Stringer is taking the hit, so it mustn't be that huge. Why wouldn't O'Gara have left. He is planning on doing it now as a coach.
    Thats not deserving for a 350K a year contract.

    I'd saying sitting on a bench is harder than playing. The IRFU would also have control of his image rights and would mean loss of other income to him.



    signed Nov 2010 for 11/12 and 12/13[/QUOTE]


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 373 ✭✭Ruck Inspector


    jm08 wrote: »
    I'd saying sitting on a bench is harder than playing. The IRFU would also have control of his image rights and would mean loss of other income to him.

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    I think there was also a question of timing too. The IRFU have a period where they negotiate all International contracts and Sexton wanted to open negotiation earlier than that. Whether he had made contact with Racing at that point or not no one knows.

    Everyone would have been playing everyone off against each other at one point. It’s all one big game. Racing played hardball with Sexton too I reckon. The salary figures rumoured at the start were a lot more than what is being reported now.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Esteban Scary Sucker


    actually, no


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    You seem to have a good hard on for the IRFU top brass, and like to name drop, just like on MF, but how is matching salary with Heaslip for the best FH in Europe 'unsustainable'?

    Tom Grace is well known for his work as a Liquidator. I'd respect that he would know a bit about how companies go bust.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    jm08 wrote: »
    Peter Stringer is taking the hit, so it mustn't be that huge. Why wouldn't O'Gara have left. He is planning on doing it now as a coach.

    There are ways around that. Strings could return and play a season with Shannon as player/coach and then retire to be eligible for example.

    *The new rules on clubs paying players will put a stop to that now I think about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Winters wrote: »
    I think there was also a question of timing too. The IRFU have a period where they negotiate all International contracts and Sexton wanted to open negotiation earlier than that. Whether he had made contact with Racing at that point or not no one knows.

    Everyone would have been playing everyone off against each other at one point. It’s all one big game. Racing played hardball with Sexton too I reckon. The salary figures rumoured at the start were a lot more than what is being reported now.

    I'd suspect that the IRFU do not like his agent (Fintan Drury) who has used the media a bit when negotiating contracts. Drury also represents Luke Fitz who had difficulties as well.

    Heaslip moved to Brian O'Driscoll's outfit I think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Its why David Humphreys retired from international rugby - he didn't want to be away for long periods of time from his young family just warming the bench!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 373 ✭✭Ruck Inspector


    jm08 wrote: »
    Its why David Humphreys retired from international rugby - he didn't want to be away for long periods of time from his young family just warming the bench!

    I could think of a lot harder things to be doing that sitting on the bench and getting paid 350k to do it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    jm08 wrote: »
    ROG is very highly rated in France (look at what Wilko is earning). And of course it would have come into it - if the IRFU didn't show loyalty to O'Gara having turned down big offers from France when he was at his best, other up and coming players were not going to stick around.
    What about showing loyalty to Sexton, he turned down offers from France two years ago as well.
    jm08 wrote: »
    Peter Stringer is taking the hit, so it mustn't be that huge. Why wouldn't O'Gara have left. He is planning on doing it now as a coach.
    Leaving as a coach he will have already received his tax break. 40% of the tax in the 10 highest paid years of his career isn't going to be chump change. Would guestimate 300K.

    As to Stringer maybe he is ok financially and doesn't mind missing out or maybe he hopes to come back and play one more year with an Irish province.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    I could think of a lot harder things to be doing that sitting on the bench and getting paid 350k to do it.

    He wouldn't be getting paid 350K to sit on the bench. He has to play some games for Munster as well ;)

    O'Gara has 4 kids under 5 - I'm sure his wife might find it hard going with them on her own while ROG is sitting up Carton House for a couple of months every year / bungey jumping in NZ.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 373 ✭✭Ruck Inspector


    jm08 wrote: »
    He wouldn't be getting paid 350K to sit on the bench. He has to play some games for Munster as well ;)

    O'Gara has 4 kids under 5 - I'm sure his wife might find it hard going with them on her own while ROG is sitting up Carton House for a couple of months every year / bungey jumping in NZ.

    talk about grasping for straws when your argument is failing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    What about showing loyalty to Sexton, he turned down offers from France two years ago as well.

    He has turned down contract offers once - ROG has been doing it for years.

    Leaving as a coach he will have already received his tax break. 40% of the tax in the 10 highest paid years of his career isn't going to be chump change. Would guestimate 300K.

    That point was to do with him being prepared to move away from Ireland.
    As to Stringer maybe he is ok financially and doesn't mind missing out or maybe he hopes to come back and play one more year with an Irish province.

    So the tax back might not be the be-all and end-all as to why players move away/don't move.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    jm08 wrote: »
    He wouldn't be getting paid 350K to sit on the bench. He has to play some games for Munster as well ;)

    O'Gara has 4 kids under 5 - I'm sure his wife might find it hard going with them on her own while ROG is sitting up Carton House for a couple of months every year / bungey jumping in NZ.

    To be honest I've no sympathy with ROG over that. Surely its between himself and his wife.

    Maybe he should have handed in his central contract and retired after the RWC.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    These kind of posts don't exactly add to the discussion... Try and improve the quality of your posts, and drop the provincial BS while you're at it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Ronan O'Gara was offered 350,000 in 2010 because they were scared they would have to start Paddy Wallace.

    Have to remember that one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    To be honest I've no sympathy with ROG over that. Surely its between himself and his wife.

    Maybe he should have handed in his central contract and retired after the RWC.

    I doubt if he is looking for sympathy. It is a consideration though. I remember reading that one of the reasons Howlett moved to the NH was because he hated being away from home so much playing Super Rugby. Lots of ex-Super Rugby players say its great not to spend your life living out of a suitcase.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Folks ROG isn't up for discussion here. Fine, if you want to use him as an example, but don't let the topic trail off as we all know where it leads.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Ronan O'Gara was offered 350,000 in 2010 because they were scared they would have to start Paddy Wallace.

    Have to remember that one.

    I didn't say that.

    From when Humphreys retired, Paddy Wallace got a central contract to basically sit on the bench.

    From 2010, ROG got a contract to basically sit on the bench. Now that some back up is emerging from Jackson & Madigan, ROG isn't getting a central contract and has been offered a Munster one.

    The IRFU don't need him anymore to sit on the bench.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    I didn't say that.

    From when Humphreys retired, Paddy Wallace got a central contract to basically sit on the bench.

    From 2010, ROG got a contract to basically sit on the bench. Now that some back up is emerging from Jackson & Madigan, ROG isn't getting a central contract and has been offered a Munster one.

    The IRFU don't need him anymore to sit on the bench.

    It's nonsense!

    So if ROG hadn't been given 350k he would have magically disappeared and Ireland would have to stop selecting him and go with Wallace instead? What a silly concept.

    The IRFU messed up here. They tried to lowball Sexton (no doubt Drury dragged the discussions down to his usual level) and he walked away. And the fact they expected him to play for less than they payed O'Gara to sit on the bench for 2 years is madness.


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