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Religious Threads in After Hours

2456789

Comments

  • #32
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,109 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Apologies for the old thread bump but it contains the example for my query. I of course used the search function however the first page of results doesn't really help.

    Basically I'm wondering if policy has changed from this -
    Super-Rush wrote: »
    We allow x amout of discussion on different topics.

    When the forum gets over run with a certain topic we close/move etc.

    If we were to move every topic to a specific forum there wouldn't be anything posted in AH at all.

    to this -

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84508238&postcount=37
    AH is a sports free zone.

    Did a 'control + f' search in the charter and it says nothing about sports specifically so it should probably be added if the stance has changed.


  • #33
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    AH has always been a sports free zone with the rare exception of World Cup threads.

    Sex, religion and politics come no where close to how contentious sport can be.


  • #34
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,109 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    AH has always been a sports free zone with the rare exception of World Cup threads.

    Sex, religion and politics come no where close to how contentious sport can be.

    That's fair enough if it's the policy but it's not stated anywhere. Bannable offences are in the charter for example so sticking this in would be no harm too to cover yourselves.

    Would stop whingers like me :)


  • #35
    Brendan Flowers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭Brendan Flowers


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    AH has always been a sports free zone with the rare exception of World Cup threads.

    Sex, religion and politics come no where close to how contentious sport can be.

    Could you be a bit more specific here because I would have thought religion and politics threads were a lot worse than sport?


  • #36
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    No one needs boring soccer threads in AH :P


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  • #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 53,068 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Brendan Flowers wrote: »
    Could you be a bit more specific here because I would have thought religion and politics threads were a lot worse than sport?

    As you are probably aware, there is a strict charter and access process in the soccer forum - the strictest on boards. The reason for this is because soccer is a painfully contentious subject, the soccer mods work damn hard to keep the forum in line. Other sports - like rugby - also get extremely heated, maybe not to quite the same extent, but heated nonetheless.

    So for obvious reasons, we keep soccer in the soccer forum. We can't allow some sports and not others, that would cause offense and be inconsistent.


  • #38
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 28,634 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Brendan Flowers wrote: »
    Could you be a bit more specific here because I would have thought religion and politics threads were a lot worse than sport?

    Far more people get heated over soccer then religion, this is why the soccer forum is so strict with access to the forum, bans etc


  • #39
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Sports threads are more work that religious threads by far. You'd think the maddest hatters were religious but nope it's the soccer fans.
    There a reason Soccer forum was made private many years ago but Islam, Atheist and Christianity forums are still public access.


  • #40
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,109 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    So will the ban on sports threads be added to the charter or documented in any way seeing as they're not allowed?

    Seems like it's all official so no reason why not.

    Edit:
    Deleted User wrote: »
    As you are probably aware, there is a strict charter and access process in the soccer forum - the strictest on boards. The reason for this is because soccer is a painfully contentious subject, the soccer mods work damn hard to keep the forum in line. Other sports - like rugby - also get extremely heated, maybe not to quite the same extent, but heated nonetheless.

    So for obvious reasons, we keep soccer in the soccer forum. We can't allow some sports and not others, that would cause offense and be inconsistent.

    Of course you could, you already allow some topics and not others so it's the same principle.

    The soccer forum access just gives a handy excuse not to have soccer related threads because the AH mods wouldn't want to manage them. And I don't blame them.

    Using it as an excuse to stop chat on golf or athletics though is stretching it a bit much. A thread on Rory McIlroy winning something would be farce less hassle then a debate on Catholicism yet the former is banned and the latter is allowed slide. That's the inconsistency which remains.


  • #41
    Dav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭Dav


    Would an addition of "we don't talk about Sports here in AH - go see the Sports Category" to the charter fix that? Seems like a quick and easy win.

    However, is it even a problem at the moment that you need to have a specific rule for it?


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  • #42
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I know soccer is expressibly not allowed, that's in the charter.
    AH is a catch-all forum but whenever a Golf/Rugby/Surfing thread is closed with a note to "take it to sports forum" there is usually no quarrel.
    Tbh I don't see any particular reason to change anything, it's already well known that AH isn't right for sports chat unless the mods deems it's good for a laugh or there is a tournament on or something more sinister I cannot reveal.


  • #43
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,109 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    biko wrote: »
    I know soccer is expressibly not allowed, that's in the charter.
    AH is a catch-all forum but whenever a Golf/Rugby/Surfing thread is closed with a note to "take it to sports forum" there is usually no quarrel.
    Tbh I don't see any particular reason to change anything, it's already well known that AH isn't right for sports chat unless the mods deems it's good for a laugh or there is a tournament on or something more sinister I cannot reveal.

    Exactly, there are exceptions which is why I'm questioning the response -
    AH is a sports free zone.

    It either is or it isn't. If it isn't then you're right, no need for change. If it is though then it should be on the list of things not allowed like "Yore ma" and whatever else.

    A bit of clarity is all I'm asking for one way or another.


  • #44
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,410 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Are you planning to go through every forum charter looking for "clarity"? Because I'm sure there's plenty in need of change before AH. And I fail to understand why it matters so much to you anyway. The AH mods do a bloody difficult job extremely well, so they really don't need another mod coming out of the blue to publicly question how they moderate their forum. Other than single megathreads during things like the World Cup, sports threads have not been permitted in AH for quite some time. That it's not in the charter is irrelevant, it's a long established convention in the forum. And tbh, we all know that most people don't read the charters, so would it make any significant difference if "no sports threads" was added?


  • #45
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,109 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Less of the hostile response thanks Zaph, I was told on thread to take it to feedback so I did. Questioning ANYTHING these days seems to met with that sort of attitude, even if it's simply a suggestion to cover bases. You'd almost think feedback isn't wanted :confused:

    Sports threads are either allowed or they aren't. If they are then the mod's response was incorrect.
    And tbh, we all know that most people don't read the charters, so would it make any significant difference if "no sports threads" was added?

    T&Cs for anything are rarely if ever read, it doesn't mean something just gets left out. I'm genuinely surprised at the staunch objection to adding a single line to the charter. At the very least the mods should have a consistent response, not one saying they're allowed sometimes and another saying they're not at all.

    I've made my suggestion as per the mod instruction I was given so might as well lock her up if it's not something of interest. I won't post any more on it.


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 53,068 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This is what is in the charter, there is an example list of where some threads should go - but it's not an exhaustive list. If it was, we'd need to list every forum on the site.

    It doesn't say "All threads relating to motors go here", but we all know - that if someone starts a thread about what car has the best MPG, it will be locked and the the poster will be directed to motors.

    So it is catered for in the charter, the wording may not be as specific as some like, but it's impossible to cover every eventuality.

    If sports threads were regularly being started in AH, we would consider having a more exclusive point in the charter, but as it stands - they're a rarity.

    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    There are a huge amount of forums on boards.ie. Often it can be difficult to locate the one you are looking for. If you need help please ask in newbies and FAQ.
    If you post a thread in After Hours that is more suited to another forum it will either be locked or moved to the correct forum. If you are unsure if a topic is suitable for After Hours please send a private message to any of the moderators.

    For example:


  • #47
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Sports threads are either allowed or they aren't.

    I don't feel the need to cater in absolute blanket rules in everything all the time to spoil the fun for everyone. Sports threads are not allowed. With occasional exceptions for big deals. World cup thread in AH was a laugh in the past. It was worth being catered for.

    This kind of questioning spoils the fun tbh. Talking about adding lines to charters because it suits your mood to go looking to poke holes is just a waste of time.


  • #48
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,575 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    I don't think Xavi6 is asking for a specific rule in the charter - just a general hint that sports topics belong elsewhere. And yes, I just had a reasonable look at the charter and it's not apparent.

    The spin that 'it's been like that for ages' or 'the regulars know that is the case' is bullcrap tbh if a mod can't back their actions up by reference to posting guidelines or rules somewhere. It's all to easy for regulars and mods alike to assume everyone knows what goes because they are up-to-date on current decisions - and those decisions have become policy but without the forum rules being changed to reflect it.

    How, in that case, is a new user (or indeed an experienced user who doesn't frequent the forum but knows to peruse the charter before posting) supposed to know how to behave or what to post or not post?


  • #49
    padd b1975
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,886 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    Talking about adding lines to charters because it suits your mood to go looking to poke holes is just a waste of time.
    Maybe you and your mods should look at removing lines from the charter.

    EG.
    Irish economy forum for all
    issues relating to the Irish economy.

    No way is even a token effort made by you guys to enforce this.


  • #50
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,316 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Steve wrote: »
    I don't think Xavi6 is asking for a specific rule in the charter - just a general hint that sports topics belong elsewhere. And yes, I just had a reasonable look at the charter and it's not apparent.

    The spin that 'it's been like that for ages' or 'the regulars know that is the case' is bullcrap tbh if a mod can't back their actions up by reference to posting guidelines or rules somewhere. It's all to easy for regulars and mods alike to assume everyone knows what goes because they are up-to-date on current decisions - and those decisions have become policy but without the forum rules being changed to reflect it.

    How, in that case, is a new user (or indeed an experienced user who doesn't frequent the forum but knows to peruse the charter before posting) supposed to know how to behave or what to post or not post?

    We don't prohibit sports discussion for something like a World Cup, European Championships or an Olympics. For something like an All Ireland win for Donegal :cool: or SAF retiring we'll direct to the appropriate forum, just close the thread and point to the appropriate forum.

    I suppose there is no harm in updating the charter, it hasn't been an issue at all during my time modding. The few times people did post something outside the charter it was sorted easily enough, no big deal. I think it is covered by the appropriate forum rule, but sometimes people will look at the technicalities of the charter and focus on that, meanwhile ignoring the overall ethos or general feel of the forum.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #51
    LizT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,089 ✭✭✭✭LizT


    Steve wrote: »
    I don't think Xavi6 is asking for a specific rule in the charter - just a general hint that sports topics belong elsewhere. And yes, I just had a reasonable look at the charter and it's not apparent.

    The spin that 'it's been like that for ages' or 'the regulars know that is the case' is bullcrap tbh if a mod can't back their actions up by reference to posting guidelines or rules somewhere. It's all to easy for regulars and mods alike to assume everyone knows what goes because they are up-to-date on current decisions - and those decisions have become policy but without the forum rules being changed to reflect it.

    How, in that case, is a new user (or indeed an experienced user who doesn't frequent the forum but knows to peruse the charter before posting) supposed to know how to behave or what to post or not post?

    This line from the charter pretty much sums it up
    If you post a thread in After Hours that is more suited to another forum it will either be locked or moved to the correct forum. If you are unsure if a topic is suitable for After Hours please send a private message to any of the moderators.

    I'm taking an educated guess that the reason sports isn't specifically mentioned in the charter is that there are simply far too many sports forums to mention individually. It is its own category after all. I'm also taking an educated guess that the reason the likes of Dublin City, Celebs and Showbiz etc are mentioned is that they're the forums that threads should be posted in, rather than AH. That's certainly been my experience.

    As Dr B said, is there a need to create a blanket rule specifically for this? IMO, no. In my short time as a mod, I can only recall one sports thread cropping up in AH and being subsequently locked (there have very possibly been one or two more, my memory is sh1te). I don't think that this is such an issue that amendments need to be made to the charter to be honest.


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  • #52
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,316 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Maybe you and your mods should look at removing lines from the charter.

    EG.


    No way is even a token effort made by you guys to enforce this.

    You might be onto something. Take Irish economical topics like emigration, property tax, Irish politics like West Brits, nuclear power, worldwide politics, stuff like that to politics, direct homosexual threads to LGBT/humanities/religion, Abortion to Religion/Politics/Humanities/Atheism, guns to US politics/shooting/humanities/ pet issues etc.

    We could just take this general rule and apply it to the extreme.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #53
    Super-Rush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    K-9 wrote: »
    You might be onto something. Take Irish economical topics like emigration, property tax, Irish politics like West Brits, nuclear power, worldwide politics, stuff like that to politics, direct homosexual threads to LGBT/humanities/religion, Abortion to Religion/Politics/Humanities/Atheism, guns to US politics/shooting/humanities/ pet issues etc.

    We could just take this general rule and apply it to the extreme.

    :confused:


  • #54
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,575 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    K-9 wrote: »
    We don't prohibit sports discussion for something like a World Cup, European Championships or an Olympics. For something like an All Ireland win for Donegal :cool: or SAF retiring we'll direct to the appropriate forum, just close the thread and point to the appropriate forum.
    LizT wrote: »
    I'm taking an educated guess that the reason sports isn't specifically mentioned in the charter is that there are simply far too many sports forums to mention individually. It is its own category after all. I'm also taking an educated guess that the reason the likes of Dublin City, Celebs and Showbiz etc are mentioned is that they're the forums that threads should be posted in, rather than AH. That's certainly been my experience.

    As Dr B said, is there a need to create a blanket rule specifically for this? IMO, no. In my short time as a mod, I can only recall one sports thread cropping up in AH and being subsequently locked (there have very possibly been one or two more, my memory is sh1te). I don't think that this is such an issue that amendments need to be made to the charter to be honest.

    I get all that but when a rec CMod posts a general statement that:
    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    AH is a sports free zone.

    ..then surely the local mods are bound to respect that? Just like if a sports CMod went and posted that there are to be no more mention of religious things in sports forums.

    As for charter lawyers, that's well covered in signup t&c's so not really an issue imo.


  • #55
    Super-Rush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    Steve wrote: »
    I get all that but when a rec CMod posts a general statement that:



    ..then surely the local mods are bound to respect that? Just like if a sports CMod went and posted that there are to be no more mention of religious things in sports forums.

    As for charter lawyers, that's well covered in signup t&c's so not really an issue imo.

    But AH is a sports free zone.


  • #56
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,575 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Cool, let the rest of the internet know via the forum charter then.. win! :)


  • #57
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,316 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Steve wrote: »
    Cool, let the rest of the internet know via the forum charter then.. win! :)

    But then nobody will ever, ever, ever be able to post about the World Cup or Olympics, the charter prohibits it, and the charter is the end all and be all.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #58
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,316 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Super-Rush wrote: »
    :confused:


    :D Shooting and animal and pet issues have there own agreement as regards posters, for good reasons. Posters trolling or causing issues on one board is frowned on the other.

    Gun topics have been popular recently on AH. I like padd b's point from a workload point of view, though the irish economy one would be a nightmare.

    Still, AH isn't about personal wish lists.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #59
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    K-9 wrote: »
    But then nobody will ever, ever, ever be able to post about the World Cup or Olympics, the charter prohibits it, and the charter is the end all and be all.

    Fortunately enough, the charter still allows for the discretion of the Mod Team. :) A few seem to have forgotten that.


  • #60
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Anyone that wants to have a serious discussion about sports will use the appropriate forum and these forums have charters tailored over the years to deal with any trolling, subtle or otherwise.

    It's not fair to expect the AH mods to be experts in sports so they can spot what is and what isn't trolling, ultimately one troll could rile up a set of supporters and there'd be war amongst otherwise decent posters. AH doesn't need that sort of grief on top of everything else it has to deal with.


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  • #61
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,447 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    It never ceases to amaze me how anal some people can get, and how such a big ordeal can be made out of a little thing.
    Both sides of the argument are debating for the sake of it an tbh some are coming off a tad childish.

    There doesn't need to be such a large debate about this.
    It's very simple: Sports are a huge part of society. AH is a huge part of Boards. People will want to talk about sports from time to time.
    Why not just stick a line into the charter that says, "After Hours is not the place for sports discussions except in certain circumstances (Olympics, World Cup etc). This is at the mods discretion. Any other sports threads will be locked and/or moved to the appropriate forum.

    It's that simple. No big deal.


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