Season 3 Episode 16 - Welcome to the Tombs (SPOILERS)

titan18 · 01-04-2013 01:18PM

Felt like the first half of a longer finale episode. It's grand by itself but there was no payoff or real resolution to the whole season. Then, just the fact that of the people they brought back with them, other than Karen(think that's her name, the one they met on their way to Woodbury) Tyreese and the girl with him, they're all cannon fodder old people and children

Lone Stone · 01-04-2013 01:26PM

Disappointing and annoyed that this is what the entire season lead up to an old folks care prison. To be honest this is the first time a tv show has pissed me off it was a good episode but god awful finale episode, when it ended i was what the F** was that.

An old folks prison day care center to follow in s4 woop de doo.

krudler · 01-04-2013 01:34PM

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

I enjoyed the episode, but as a season finale it was terrible.

They really needed two hours for the finale, if they had that much in the first episode, and then tied up the Governor story in the second half it would have been amazing. We got to watch the deep breath before the plunge, but there was no plunge, just an exasperated sigh.

I know lots of people are saying this sets it up for Season 4. But it shouldn't need to set it up for season 4, all the blocks were in place for them to finish this arc this season, and they were building up to it, but it didn't happen. I don't care for the Governor arc anymore.
I wish they just followed the comics and did a season where they meet Abraham and spend a full season on the road. In my opinion a season where they are constantly on the move should be brilliant.

Agree with the spoiler bit,

being on the road again leaves room for more one off encounters instead of dragging the arse out of one location for a full season

ArtyM · 01-04-2013 01:37PM

Such a disappointment for a finale.
What p*ssed me off the most is that the last few episodes were dragged out but I put up with this because it was leading up to a great finale - then we get this.
I really feel they missed so many opportunities.
The last episode ended with Daryl killing his brother, giving great potential for his character to star in this episode - all badass and emotionally troubled, but no, was hardly even mentioned.
The level of character development has really deteriorated this season - the addition of so many other people has taken away from the core group. Now we have another 15-20 people in the prison, the core group will now each get even less screen time.
Andrea's exit was ludicrous. So many things wrong with that. Why not give her the option to redeem herself in some final gesture?
And why finish the season back at the prison? It is a soulless, joyless, place and has not helped the show for a long time. The early episodes where they took it over were great but it has long since stopped contributing anything as a setting.
This show really needs some new writers.
I used to really look forward to the next episode with eager anticipation. After this, and the last one, I don't feel that no more.
:mad:

Lone Stone · 01-04-2013 01:42PM

ArtyM wrote: »

Such a disappointment for a finale.
What p*ssed me off the most is that the last few episodes were dragged out but I put up with this because it was leading up to a great finale - then we get this.
I really feel they missed so many opportunities.
The last episode ended with Daryl killing his brother, giving great potential for his character to star in this episode - all badass and emotionally troubled, but no, was hardly even mentioned.
The level of character development has really deteriorated this season - the addition of so many other people has taken away from the core group. Now we have another 15-20 people in the prison, the core group will now each get even less screen time.
Andrea's exit was ludicrous. So many things wrong with that. Why not give her the option to redeem herself in some final gesture?
And why finish the season back at the prison? It is a soulless place and has not helped the show for a long time. The early episodes where they took it over were great but it has long since stopped contributing anything as a setting.
This show really needs some new writers.
I used to really look forward to the next episode with eager anticipation. After this, and the last one, I don't feel that no more.
:mad:

completely agree, i was really hoping it would end with with a much smaller cast as every episode that centered around 2 or 3 characters were great, the worst thing is i now have zero excitement for season 4 and ive been hooked on this show since it started. Feels like a real disservice to the fans and the show itself.

John_D80 · 01-04-2013 03:32PM

I enjoyed it immensely but i know I'm in a tiny minority. There was very little in the episode that anyone could have predicted. And personally thats what I want from TWD, unpredictability. I think people had an expectation of what was gonna happen and were disappointed when the reality was totally different

In the space of one season, Carl has gone from being an annoying little ****e to being an awesome cold blooded badass killer. I was delighted when he dropped that kid in the woods. And who would have thought that the governor would survive the season finale? Not me, for sure.

Mazzara did say between seasons 2 and 3 that he would be expecting to get 2 seasons out of the prison, so no surprises there.

Snowie · 01-04-2013 03:50PM

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Anyway, Season 4 was nicely set up. Rick has stopped his own downward spiral but at the same time, it looks like Carl has been corrupted. His lecturing of Rick for not killing people when he had the chance was very like the Governor's mantra of you either kill or be killed at the start of the episode. It should certainly be an interesting dynamic between the two next season.

Don't think Carls been corrupted I think he wants to prove him self he a capable and strong member of the group. Which to a degree every one thinks he still " a Boy" The chap shot his mum in the head and does things because he has to. I don't think he is corrupted more so hes wants to be treated as an equal.. it would make sense that he kills someone, he was angry at Rick for not being aloud to take part in the ambush.

But its true in affect Shane also said the same thing and was generally right when it came down to things.. Ricks a little bit to man of the law so to speak he got moralities. Thats the issue with rick, he will kill but it has to be for a good reason.

But season 4 could be a blinder whos directing it thats the question

Cork boy 55 · 01-04-2013 03:55PM

7/10
marked down to a 5.5./10
due to hype and the fact it was season finale.

The first half was pretty good then it fissiled out without bang or rather an odd bang, the Gov arc WTf
Carl in forest was cool, I thought the assault was handled quite well, Andrea/Milton Arc was good

What should have happened in second half my alternative,

After the assault Gov shoots just two people causing major bad blood in Woodbury army
Meanwhile Tyrese finds/saves Andrea just in time and kills walker
Gov returns to Woodbury and starts combats with Tyrese/Andrea/Dascha group
Woodbury civilians start to mutiny due to further gov crazy actions
Rick arrives just in time
Gov and his hardcore inner circle are caught in a four way heavy battle
They are killed or captured and Gov escapes into woods wounded and is eaten by walkers away from Woodbury
cease-fire
Many big Speeches at Woodbury. Rick gives a Gettysburg type address
Andrea relives she is bit followed by her suicide scene
They all agree to go back to prison with all Woodbury supplies and work together.

OctavarIan · 01-04-2013 03:58PM

Felt that finale was the complete opposite of what the show needed, which is a shame because it had such potential starting out.

- Andrea finally killed herself. Three seasons of hanging off the nearest man/woman while convincing herself she was contributing. If she'd spent less time daydreaming about Milton she would have had plenty of time to get free as well.
- Zombies pose zero threat now, which is probably the way it should be at this stage. The biggest challenge is food/water for a prison full of people. Rations, exciting.
- The Governor has become an almost unbearable stereotype 'bad guy', it seems almost cartoonish.

Timmyctc · 01-04-2013 04:14PM

Jesus but that was a poor finale. Daryl seems to have gotten over Merles death fairly sharpish. It just feels like there are farrrrr to many loose ends. Were Rick's group purposely not hitting the fleeing Woodbury soldiers or what? It's funny how they can be hanging out of a moving car window, a la season 2 finale, firing pistols and shot guns one handed and scoring headshot after headshot on walkers but in a soldier on soldier gunfight no one ever hits... ever.

NufcNavan · 01-04-2013 05:14PM

A few thoughts.

- The most underwhelming finale I think I have ever seen. Andrea dying? that's what we've waited all series to see? F*ckoff. Thank God she's dead though.

- Annoyed that the Governor/Woodbury thing is going to drag into another series.

- Since when is Carl a fountain of wisdom? He tries to act like a badass but he just comes across as a grumpy hormonal dickhead. The kid is 13 (?) FFS.

- The shootout scene was also farfetched. You mean to tell me that Glenn and Maggie couldn't hit a wide open target from a height? They're all marksmen when it comes to shooting zombies in the head but all of a sudden their aim goes to **** when shooting at humans.

- The scene with Andrea & Milton was also ridiculous. It summed her up as a character: Retarded. Why did she waste so much time with pointless dialogue with Milton? PICK UP THE PLIERS YOU STUPID COW.

willmunny1990 · 01-04-2013 05:22PM

Very poor finale i must say.

Way to much build up and filler episodes leading up to this and the end result was so disappointing. It just seemed so lazy to me, the battle at the prison, Andreas death along with all the various plot holes.

I got into the walking dead late, I watched the first two seasons on DVD. I don't think the walking dead is going to be that enjoyable if your only going to be watching one episode per week, the pacing is so off and the character interest isn't there.

I'll try my best to not watch season 4 one episode at a time on T.V or online , it's so much better to wait and watch it straight through on DVD.

OctavarIan · 01-04-2013 05:35PM

NufcNavan wrote: »

- The shootout scene was also farfetched. You mean to tell me that Glenn and Maggie couldn't hit a wide open target from a height? They're all marksmen when it comes to shooting zombies in the head but all of a sudden their aim goes to **** when shooting at humans.

They were aiming to miss.

gungun · 01-04-2013 05:53PM

NufcNavan wrote: »

- Since when is Carl a fountain of wisdom? He tries to act like a badass but he just comes across as a grumpy hormonal dickhead. The kid is 13 (?) FFS.

^ This x 100

Absolutely hate him, largely due to the stupid hat, it looks ridiculous on him, lose that and the badass-ness might be easier to buy into

Hande hoche! · 01-04-2013 06:15PM

Fairly disappointing episode after all the build up. Enjoyed the scene where the Woodbury forces bust down the gates and opened up with the Browning and grenade launcher. Felt it really fell apart after they went into the tombs. Also would definitely agree about the Governor being reduced to a cliché baddie. Not enough Daryl too.

expectationlost · 01-04-2013 06:24PM

what a damp squib

sparkthatbled · 01-04-2013 06:29PM

A disappointing end to a disappointing season. The Woodbury assault team coming in looking hardcore with grenade launchers etc, then a couple of grenades, a couple of walkers and a smattering of gunfire and they're off running for their lives. I get that most of them weren't battle hardened (thanks to Merle, i should point out) but in such numbers, following the governors word that the prison has a handful of wackos out to kill them and destroy their town, I just don't buy that they would give up that easily. Then the governor mowing them all down like that, well that was total bull. Someone would have put a bullet in him...

They have a long way to go in order to turn this show around. They need to stop drawing out storylines so much and they need to stop treating their viewers like idiots, spelling everything out all the time... Another season like this and i'm done with it.

Also, that was a nice busload of Zombie fodder they got at the end, just as they were running low on redshirts... Plenty there to develop just enough to almost make you give a damn about them before they off them.

Diabhal Beag · 01-04-2013 06:36PM

It was poorly delivered I thought. Still enough possible plots left to keep me interested but I'm not going to miss it terribly over the Summer TBH. They didn't grip you with anything. Even if they showed the Governor at the very end instead of the cross it would have been better received.

It hasn't been mentioned but that brief second where Martinez has his gun pointed at the Governor was the best bit of the episode. Carl going off at Rick was good too. They developed him the most out of everybody in that ep.

I really enjoyed the Talking Dead after. Was kinda meh over it but they were so positive and brought up some points that leave you with some hope. They didn't really bat away the notion that Carl was more of Shane than Rick as mentioned earlier. His attitude was very Governor like, especially after the shooting.

Will be interesting to see how many give up on the show now.

Necronomicon · 01-04-2013 06:37PM

So at the end of a largely dour Season 2 we get a pretty epic finale, and after a largely excellent Season 3 we get an utterly damp squib. I can't remember the last time I felt as let down by an episode of anything. I don't even have the heart to go into my problems with it, apart from one: Andrea's death. Good grief, what a terrible way to execute it. It just stank of offing her to appease the fans. At least she died how she lived - as a total fùckwit.

cjmcork · 01-04-2013 06:42PM

dagnamit, got up early to download it - all in all, a good episode but last week's was miles better

when I saw Andrea's pedicure I was happy to know she was for the chopper........I mean all the way through she's been a pain with her always perfect roots, her starch white undies and now her bloody pedicure..........Laurie wasn't wrong in S2 when she said all Andrea was interested in was sitting on top of the RV topping up her tan!!!

haven't read the comics so don't know what's ahead for S4, but here's an obvious thought - why not just move in with everybody in Woodbury instead of dragging everyone to the hole of a prison??? surely they could have taken out the Guv + 2 quite easily.............not the gob-smacker finale that S2 had with the fire at the farm, but just happy that Daryl is still alive!!

Sad to see Milton go though

FlyingIrishMan · 01-04-2013 06:51PM

I've heard that Mazzara was fired because of this finale. Kirkman didn't agree with it or something like that.

PhiloCypher · 01-04-2013 07:16PM

Overall a disappointing end to a season that had gotten off to a flier in the first half dozen episodes , while the episode was not without its moments it singularly failed to give us the epic confrontation we were meant to be building towards. The attack on the prison for instance, while I liked idea to lure them into the tombs then use zombies on them at a base level, I just wish the plan had been more innovative and involved then simply driving them out into the yard and shooting the ground at their feet A-team style until they ran away( i was thinking more along the lines of what Morgan did) . I actually laughed when Karen told the Governor they weren't going back because it was a massacre , I was like really ??? I don't think I saw a Zombie bite nor Glen or Maggie hit one person.

Another one of those moment/missed opportunities was the Milton Andrea scene, again it was a good idea but I felt it was a little too drawn out and was time that could have been better spent on the prison attack with characters who you know we actually like somewhat. There were a couple of things that annoyed me about the scene a) could Milton not have crawled over to her and handed her the pliers b)if she hadn't kept bloody stopping every 2 minutes to check if he was alive she would have freed herself in plenty of time c) infact to my mind she was free in time, both hands were free when he lurched towards before she could get up out of the seat all she had to do was was to get her feet inbetween them and push him off before stabbing him in the head with the pliers.

No justice for Merle ?? seriously , you have the governor kill off his brother in the previous episode and don't even have a face to face encounter between Daryl and the Governor in this one , in fact you let him off scott free.

Why bring all the woodites back to live in a dark dank zombie infested ****hole when woodbury's defences are fine and the living conditions are infinitely better . It makes no sense whatsoever and it completely the wrong direction for the series to go when they should have ideally been going back on the road with a leaner cast allowing neglected characters to get more sceentime. Its like AMC signed a 2 year lease on prison and are legally bound to see it out regardless of logic

I did enjoy the scene between Rick and Carl the latter of which made some pretty salient points about his failing to kill that zombie that killed dale and Rick failing to kill the Governor when he had the chance at the expense of Merle, but putting Lori's death on Rick because he didn't make sure Andrew was dead (even tho he had every reason too) is a bit of a stretch imo.

IvySlayer · 01-04-2013 08:09PM

Does Woodbury even exist anymore? They took the kids/other people and I assume they robbed all the supplies. Who's left with the Governor? Martinez and that other dude.

expectationlost · 01-04-2013 08:14PM

did anyone see anyone be killed in the attack?

Lone Stone · 01-04-2013 08:23PM

expectationlost wrote: »

did anyone see anyone be killed in the attack?

no one even got wounded with a bullet .. i really wish this episode went down like the comic. Such a let down

El Guapo! · 01-04-2013 08:46PM

Seriously disappointing season finale.
I can't really add much to whats already been said in this thread though.
We were leading up to what should've been a fantastic episode, but it turned out to be a total let down.
Why didn't they move into Woodbury instead of heading back to the prison??
It can't be for fear of the Governor because he's practically on his own now.

As others have said in this thread, I just can't buy into Carls character at all. I know he's supposed to be a badass in the comics but it doesn't work in the show. It's just not believable. He just comes across as a moody, irritating little twerp and with Andrea gone now, my hatred is shifting towards him.

I'm a huge fan of this show and at the end of seasons 1 & 2, I was left gagging for more and was counting the days till it started back up again. But not this time. I'll definitely continue to watch it for as long as it runs but I'm just not as excited about it as I used to be.

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

I've heard that Mazzara was fired because of this finale. Kirkman didn't agree with it or something like that.

Yep. Here's a link to the story.

Jason Todd · 01-04-2013 08:46PM

01-04-2013 09:08PM

expectationlost wrote: »

did anyone see anyone be killed in the attack?

It was like something from the A-Team. Lots of shooting and spectacle but nobody actually getting hurt. I half expected one of the jeeps to flip over in slow motion. And the funny thing is one of the people described it as a 'slaughter' when the governor stopped them down the road.

Where did the governor go? Even if he planned to leave Woodbury surely he would go back to get some supplies and personal effects. He just drives off randomly with his two mates... Very lazy writing.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 01-04-2013 09:37PM

They killed Andrea, so I'm happy...

expectationlost · 01-04-2013 09:42PM

Jason Todd wrote: »

laurie-andrea: our spirits connected that day

milton in hilar! zombe make-up, it was out funnest day

god laurie holden has stick up her butt trying to justify her acting in a zombie tv show

Season 3 Episode 16 - Welcome to the Tombs (SPOILERS)

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