Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Can I plant indigenous broadleaf species to my own preference?

2»

Comments

  • #32
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,109 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    Chisler2 wrote: »
    Oldtree I got excited at your spotting twigs and bark in bog on the landemere but presumably fossilised, then occurred to me the bit of bog might have been some distance in from the coast when those trees died and decayed? Just a thought.

    not fossilised just turned to bog. coast was further out due to lower sea levels, nontheless birch was close to the sea way back then. :D


  • #33
    Gambas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 847 ✭✭✭Gambas


    Oldtree wrote: »
    not fossilised just turned to bog. coast was further out due to lower sea levels, nontheless birch was close to the sea way back then. :D

    Same in Spiddal Co Galway.

    Very interesting article in National Geographic last December focusing on Doggerland, but it had a map of the landmass changes here over the past 10,000 years. Spiddal would have been over 100km from the sea at one stage.

    Doggerland3.jpg


  • #34
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭robp


    Chisler2 wrote: »
    Oldtree I got excited at your spotting twigs and bark in bog on the landemere but presumably fossilised, then occurred to me the bit of bog might have been some distance in from the coast when those trees died and decayed? Just a thought.

    Robp I am greatly drawn to oak myself and the biodiversity potential definitely influences me. I would love to develop a healthy oak-wood on the Western seaboard. Where is The People's Millenium Forest you mention? I'll put it on my list for the next visit - a list that's growing by the day thanks to the wonderful resources and generosity on this list. There are a number of likely-looking sites at the moment and I'm keen to get the bit of land and begin. It's a bit of a 'Catch-22' situation, though, as I want to be as well-informed as I can be before being saddled with a smallholding which limits the 'vision' I've got and what I know I can put into it.

    Growing big things like trees - or even growing large-scale - are the things that contribute most to the 'good society' at the moment, imho. I was living in Colchester, Essex, in 2000 where, to mark the Millenium, the Borough Council planted two thousand spring-flowering bulbs in public parks, verges etc. Now, thirteen years on, they have naturalised and early spring in Colchester is magical, enjoyed by all.

    There are many of these planted woodlands, 16 on the Island. The nearest to the area you mentioned is Tourmakeady on the western shore of Lough Mask. I don't know much about this particularly one.


  • #35
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,109 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    robp wrote: »
    There are many of these planted woodlands, 16 on the Island. The nearest to the area you mentioned is Tourmakeady on the western shore of Lough Mask. I don't know much about this particularly one.

    mature beech trees were felled to make way for oaks of spurious origon there!:mad:


  • #36
    Chisler2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭Chisler2


    Gambas and Robp expressed their intention to put a project like this into operation at a later time. I have organised responses and links to resources a bit and offer it here for everyone's information, further development, and correction:-

    Woodland Establishment - Western Ireland
    Fossitt J.A. 2000 A Guide to Habitats in Ireland The Heritage Council. Kilkenny
    Esser, Lora L. 1994. Cupressus goveniana In Fire Effects Information System
    U.S. Department of Agriculture, Forest Service, Rocky Mountain Research Station, Fire Sciences Laboratory (Producer) http://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/ [2013, February 7]

    Mitchell, Frank. The Shell Guide to Reading the Irish Landscape http://www.abebooks.co.uk (recommended by Periodictable)

    Our Trees – A Guide to Growing Ireland’s Native Trees: http://www.treecouncil.ie/publications.html
    National Geographic article on Doggerland December 2012 http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2012/12/doggerland/spinney-text (recommended by Robp)

    Desirable native deciduous includes:-

    A crucial issue to consider is local provenance, with tree-stock ideally from within 20 kilometer of new woodland.
    Ash, hawthorn, blackthorn, spindle, hazel, mountain ash, whitebeam, birch, willow, yew, apple, beech, chestnut, poplar, oak, lime.

    Most of the west would be hazel and ash on the thin well drained limestone soils and alder in the damper places.

    Most of the natural cover would be medium rather than big trees - hazels, alder, elder, birch then the lower hawthorn, blackthorn, spindle etc...

    Between Portumna and Loughrea has the best native broadleaves in the county - only place to grow the big broadleaves like oaks. Pockets of land down around the Clare border south of Gort wouldn't be too bad either. In the north east, north of Ballinasloe to Tuam is in general difficult for trees Around Athenry the soils are too shallow.


    Undesirables
    include sycamore, rhododendron.


    Approach to establishing woodland
    Collect seedlings to grow on augmenting the natural setup already there in your area. Look carefully at hedgerows and out of the way places. Ask neighbouring farmers to let you collect seeds on their land.
    It was generally felt that deciduous natives would tolerate Atlantic winds and air at a minimum distance of 1 kilometer from coastline and at considerable elevation.
    Monterey cypress( P.radiata), Lodgepole pine, Sitka Spruce and Monterey Cypress (Cupressus macrocarpa are suggested as windbreak and do well in West coast soils. All are Pacific coast N. American conifers, and macrocarpa and radiata actually are protected/or doing poorly in their native regions which are Carmel, Ca and Monterey County (see Esser text above). Use of Sitka as shelter-belt was found useful in some instances. Due to ash dyeback there is a risk on planting ash. Oak is far more versatile on poorer acid soils, supports far more insect and fungi species than ash, is the biodiversity tree par excellance but is slower growing and gathering the acorns can be a finicky to collect as they come cyclically.

    plant maybe 5 rows of a shelterbelt with a few alder and birch shoved in as well to soften the look of it.


    Rules and Regulations
    Under the European Communities (Forest Consent and Assessment) Regulations 2010, the approval of the Minister is required for all afforestation projects where the area involved is greater than 0.10 hectares (approximately 0.25 acres). A 20-acre woodland within an SAC, SPA, NHA would therefore need NPWS permission but since they favour creation of native woodland/biodiversity projects agreement should not be problematic.

    It is suggested wilderness planted up over time piecemeal is not subject to these Regulations and would be treated similarly to coppices and orchards.

    Woodland sites worth exploring
    Old Head Wood Nature Reserve - a 42 acre native wood Oak is the dominant species, with birch, rowan, willow and some introduced beech and sycamore.
    The Peoples’ Millennium Forest Tourmakeady on the western shore of Lough Mask. approximately 25km southwest of Westport. http://www.millenniumforests.com/about_pmf2011.html Caution: Oldtree informs that mature beech trees were felled to make way for oaks of spurious origin on this site.
    Locations of Forest sites:- http://www.millenniumforests.com/location.html.

    Links
    hardwood: http://www.teagasc.ie/forestry/advic...y_hardwood.asp
    http://www.nativewoodlandtrust.ie/en/
    guidance on selecting a site http://www.teagasc.ie/forestry/docs/...nt_Aug2011.pdf
    grants available to non-farmers http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forest...remiumschemes/

    http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/
    native woodland scheme http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/...2008060911.pdf
    biodiversity grants http://www.npws.ie/biodiversity/biodiversityfunding/
    forestry and the law http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forest...stryandthelaw/
    National Parks and Wildlife Service http://www.npws.ie/naturereserves/mayo/


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭robp


    On what trees tolerate what difficult conditions I recently found this helpful chart. Its from the British Woodland Trust so not all trees mentioned are native to Ireland but its a solid general guide.


    sea_zpsbbad9bdc.png


    http://www.whiteroseforest.org.uk/Files/Documents/Good-Practice/Tree-and-woodland-planting/creating-new-native-woodland.aspx


  • #38
    zetecescort
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,498 ✭✭✭zetecescort


    I've heard of the problems with rhododendron spreading but why is sycamore an undesirable? Is it a non native?


  • #39
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Wasn't forestry grants one of the sources of alleged corruption in our previous Fianna Fáil government?


  • #40
    periodictable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Wasn't forestry grants one of the sources of alleged corruption in our previous Fianna Fáil government?
    Interesting one-can you expand on it?:D


  • #41
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,109 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    zetecescort wrote: »
    I've heard of the problems with rhododendron spreading but why is sycamore an undesirable? Is it a non native?

    it is considdered as a non-native, but naturalised. It would be undesirable in the setting of say a native ash/hazel woodland.

    the main problems with sycamore are that it is a prolific seeder with excellent seedling success, outcompeting native trees like ash, and that as its leaves open up early, compared to ash for example, it supresses other native ground flora/tree seedlings by depriving them of light both in spring and throughout the summer/autumn.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    periodictable wrote: »
    Interesting one-can you expand on it?:D

    Google is your friend :D


  • #43
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,109 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Google is your friend :D

    what would be the best string of words to google to get to the nub of this one??? ;)


  • #44
    periodictable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Google is your friend :D

    This?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126688/The-price-corruption-Pee-Flynn-laps-sunshine--cold-beers--near-luxury-Spanish-villa-weeks-branded-corrupt-tribunal-And-real-joke


  • #45
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    periodictable wrote: »
    This?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126688/The-price-corruption-Pee-Flynn-laps-sunshine--cold-beers--near-luxury-Spanish-villa-weeks-branded-corrupt-tribunal-And-real-joke

    Hadn't seen that piece - fascinating insight into Irish politics.


  • #46
    periodictable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Hadn't seen that piece - fascinating insight into Irish politics.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg re politics in Ireland especially where FF is concerned-one of the most corrupt political parties ever


  • #47
    Chisler2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭Chisler2


    I've viewed a plot of land in Eastern part of Mayo - further inland than I intended when I envisaged Clew Bay. This 11 acres (described by the E.A. who is from farming background) as '8 acres of good-quality, 3 low-lying'. There are healthy-looking old sessile oak of good height in the corners of the holding, there is plenty of water (pond and a little stream) and walking the land it feels bouncy and the grass is green. It hasn't been grazed for awhile so there are some reeds. Its a mixture of sloping fields and flat wetter areas.

    I viewed another holding in North Mayo described as the opposite - 11 acres of which 3 are 'good grazing land' and 8 'fair'. In this case the water source is a small stream which runs along the top (mountain) edge of the holding. Lower down the hillside, in front of this property and on the other side of the road are lush grassy fields

    I'm confused about what quality is required for a small plantation of semi-native species. Is there a 'standard' description or is it purely subjective? What kind of specialist (if such exists) do people call on to advise in this situation?

    By the way I visited the plantation at Old Head. It is absolutely delightful, an inspiring achievement.


  • #48
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    According to Selina Guinness's book Crocodile at the Door, you're required to plant specific species that attract and feed wildlife if you're growing trees under the REPS scheme.


  • #49
    Chisler2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭Chisler2


    Do I call them and they inspect and advise before I purchase, or after? If before it's not mine so I don't see how that could work, if after, the deed is done.


Advertisement