Transgender child banned from girl's bathroom

Links234 · 28-02-2013 07:00PM

MadsL wrote: »

This.

I'm sorry you have to deal with immature idiots.

Funny thing is, I don't have to deal with them

Out and about in the real world, nobody seems to bat an eyelid. Despite me feeling awkward or nervous a lot of the time, nobody really has said anything to me in a long time, because they just don't notice that I'm any different. And you know what? There's loads of transgender people around Ireland, and in the vast majority of cases you wouldn't notice them.

Hilly Bill · 28-02-2013 07:02PM

The child isnt even transgender so it was right to ban him from the girls bathroom.

The parents are unfit and this is child abuse.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 07:02PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Right, I was actually taking the piss of the attitude of the other poster. If you read through some of the other posts I've made on this thread, it might make more sense. But if you want to stick to venting righteous indignation at me, fair enough.

Apologies, your sarcasm was a very hard to read into your post.

Retracted, sorry.

Hilly Bill · 28-02-2013 07:05PM

Links234 wrote: »

What the school has done is illegal and against the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act, they are in the wrong and what they have done is against the law.

What???????? Telling a boy that he cant use the girls toilets is against the law?

Chris Martin · 28-02-2013 07:07PM

Links234 wrote: »

What the school has done is illegal and against the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act, they are in the wrong and what they have done is against the law.

Which reinforces my views on discrimination.
It's used so many times in petty cases like this as a trump card that when major incidents happen, it's been worn down so much that it's not seen as much of a problem anymore...

You've clearly been on the receiving end of it,
And I honestly sympathize, there's nothing worse than being singled out.
I feel without people calling discrimination every time they don't get their own way, there would still be some meaning to the word,
And maybe harsher punishments would be put in place due to it.

Being an Englishman living in Ireland, I've encountered some myself,
But all, in my own eyes, quite trivial in comparison to the bigger picture.
I don't go and televise it whenever I get requested to "Go back to England,"
Or when I'm unbeknownst to myself reminded I'm a black and tan...

Links234 · 28-02-2013 07:08PM

Ush1 wrote: »

But you're happy now and it was all worth it yeah? My meme is fairly applicable unless there is exact legal follow on from me declaring myself transgender and being legally transgender.

Is that list you outlined the requirements? What if I wanted to be legally a woman but was perfectly happy with how I look.

You make no sense. There's no such thing as being "legally transgender"

if you want to be legally recognised as female, in so much as you can be in this country, yes you will have to go through a hell of a lot of beaurocracy, scrutiny and be expected to jump through a lot of hoops.

If you honestly wanted to join a gym as a woman, you'd need legal identification and more than likely a letter from your psychologist. to get that ID you'd need to go through everything I've highlighted, and it's not easy. Getting my new passport was one of the most complicated things I've done and had to prove a lot to them before it was issued.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 07:08PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

The parents have trained their son to use the female toilets when out in public,
It's not allowed, plain and simple.
The school isn't in the wrong.

Next time you are out and about, ring the Gardai about the seven year old boy going to the Ladies toilet holding their mother's hand.

Be sure and put it on speaker so all the shoppers can enjoy the peals of laughter from the Garda on the other end.

kunst nugget · 28-02-2013 07:09PM

MadsL wrote: »

Apologies, your sarcasm was a very hard to read into your post.

Retracted, sorry.

No problem, maybe it was being too subtle. I think it's pointless trying to counter the argument of someone saying 'Why don't I just say I'm a woman and go into the ladies changing room?'. They're just trying to provoke you.

G.K. · 28-02-2013 07:09PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The child isnt even transgender so it was right to ban him from the girls bathroom.

The parents are unfit and this is child abuse.

Prove it.

Yitzhak Rabin · 28-02-2013 07:09PM

Tbh honest links I think the vast majority of people here are not transphobic.

Perhaps one or two might be I'll-informed. I include myself in that bracket, but I haven't the slightest problem with trans people. Would be more than happy to share a dressing room, work alongside (I'm in the military) or have normal relationships with trans people, or any LGBT people, for that matter.

As far as I can tell, most people here are expressing concern and skepticism at someone being identified as being trans at as young as 4 yrs/18 months(depending on how you read the article). It's incredible to me, that a decision as monumental as raising someone as a different sex could be taken at such an early age. Maybe that kid Coy is trans, none of us have a feckin clue, but I don't think it's wrong of people to express shock, concern or disagreement with a toddler being assessed as being trans and drastic decisions about their upbringing being taken as a result of it.

Hilly Bill · 28-02-2013 07:09PM

MadsL wrote: »

Next time you are out and about, ring the Gardai about the seven year old boy going to the Ladies toilet holding their mother's hand.

Be sure and put it on speaker so all the shoppers can enjoy the peals of laughter from the Garda on the other end.

If the boy was forced to dress as a girl for the pleasure of the parents i would ring the guards myself.

Hilly Bill · 28-02-2013 07:11PM

G.K. wrote: »

Prove it.

Prove it? :eek:

MadsL · 28-02-2013 07:11PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

Being an Englishman living in Ireland, I've encountered some myself, But all, in my own eyes, quite trivial in comparison to the bigger picture. I don't go and televise it whenever I get requested to "Go back to England," Or when I'm unbeknownst to myself reminded I'm a black and tan...

Except that if that happens in a workplace, that is illegal, and there are laws to protect you from it. You are not obliged to put up with.

Chris, please go read the articles, the school agreed one thing and then changed policy in breach of Colorado legislation.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 07:13PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

If the boy was forced to dress as a girl for the pleasure of the parents i would ring the guards myself.

Sir, that is a kilt, and this family is Scottish.
Now please stop wasting police time.

Links234 · 28-02-2013 07:13PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

Being an Englishman living in Ireland, I've encountered some myself,
But all, in my own eyes, quite trivial in comparison to the bigger picture.
I don't go and televise it whenever I get requested to "Go back to England,"
Or when I'm unbeknownst to myself reminded I'm a black and tan...

You might make an issue of it if you were denied employment, accomodation, or even denied access to public places or services because of being English?

Chris Martin · 28-02-2013 07:15PM

MadsL wrote: »

Next time you are out and about, ring the Gardai about the seven year old boy going to the Ladies toilet holding their mother's hand.

Be sure and put it on speaker so all the shoppers can enjoy the peals of laughter from the Garda on the other end.

I actually put in initially, given they're of a certain age,
But then took it out again thinking, surely that's a given...
Apparently not...

You seem like your out deliberately trying to start an argument with someone and I'm taking no part in it...

I've read thread up to this, seen your comments and I wouldn't have the patience,
Seem intent on putting people down and drilling your views into them as the only right opinion.

Annasopra · 28-02-2013 07:16PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Prove it? :eek:

You made a statement. G.K. is asking for proof of your statement.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 07:20PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

I actually put in initially, given they're of a certain age,
But then took it out again thinking, surely that's a given...
Apparently not...

You seem like your out deliberately trying to start an argument with someone and I'm taking no part in it...

I've read thread up to this, seen your comments and I wouldn't have the patience,
Seem intent on putting people down and drilling your views into them as the only right opinion.

It is not illegal for a seven year child to use a female bathroom with their mother anywhere in the world as far as I am aware. You are the one claiming it is, perhaps you could show me under what laws?

But you seem to think that me disputing what you post as fact is starting an argument.

If I ridiculed it, it is because it is such an absurd assertion. Children go to the bathroom with their mothers all the time. In fact, would you let a seven year old go to a public bathroom alone. :eek:

Chris Martin · 28-02-2013 07:21PM

Links234 wrote: »

You might make an issue of it if you were denied employment, accomodation, or even denied access to public places or services because of being English?

I would definitely.
There's a difference though with this case,
This lad is 7/8 now,
It's understandable that other parents of the school don't want him in the bathroom with their daughters,
Not a parent but I'd object to it if I was.
The fact of the matter is still though that the child is too young to know whether or not he wants this...

Links234 · 28-02-2013 07:22PM

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Tbh honest links I think the vast majority of people here are not transphobic.

Perhaps one or two might be I'll-informed. I include myself in that bracket, but I haven't the slightest problem with trans people. Would be more than happy to share a dressing room, work alongside (I'm in the military) or have normal relationships with trans people, or any LGBT people.

As far as I can tell, most people here are expressing concern and skepticism at someone being identified as being trans at as young as 4 yrs/18 months. It's incredible to me, that a decision as monumental as raising someone as a different sex could be taken at such an early age. Maybe that kid Coy is trans, none of us have a feckin clue, but I don't think it's wrong of people to express shock, concern or disagreement with a toddler being assessed as being trans and decisions rustic decisions about their upbringing being taken as a result of it.

First of all, I never said anyone was transphobic anywhere in this thread

And sure! Of course people are skeptical, that's understandable and it's an issue that should be discussed. But the whole thread is full of nonsense.

Seriously, watch the video here: http://kdvr.com/2013/02/26/6-year-old-transgendered-girl-fights-intolerance-parents-file-civil-rights-complaint/

Far too much is being made of the "18 Months" thing, it's like a red-herring, what the parents actually said was that they noticed things at 18 months but it was when the kid was old enough to speak that she said she was a girl. Watch the video. I don't think that she's being identifed AS trans, as if the parents or anyone else is looking at her and saying oh she's obviously trans, she herself is saying who she is. But that's somehow been lost here.

Hilly Bill · 28-02-2013 07:22PM

MadsL wrote: »

Sir, that is a kilt, and this family is Scottish.
Now please stop wasting police time.[/QUOTE

Ah sure then its grand, if you wear a kilt in Scotland then you are transgender . Fair enough so.

--Kaiser-- · 28-02-2013 07:23PM

This thread is madder than a bag of spiders

Chris Martin · 28-02-2013 07:24PM

MadsL wrote: »

It is not illegal for a seven year child to use a female bathroom with their mother anywhere in the world as far as I am aware. You are the one claiming it is, perhaps you could show me under what laws?

But you seem to think that me disputing what you post as fact is starting an argument.

If I ridiculed it, it is because it is such an absurd assertion. Children go to the bathroom with their mothers all the time. In fact, would you let a seven year old go to a public bathroom alone. :eek:

What age does it stop being acceptable then?
Public toilets aren't death traps,
7 is an acceptable age to determine that you wish to switch gender but not to go to the bathroom by yourself?

MadsL · 28-02-2013 07:25PM

Ush1 wrote: »

World I constructed? Your strawmen ****e arguments are an art form at this stage.

So you agree with the legal provisions to prevent racism, sexism, bigotry, but trans rights are just a bit of a laugh to you, and a chance to have a snigger about changing rooms. Even when someone posts their personal experience of the huge struggle they have gone through to legally walk though that changing room door with the sign that matches the gender they identify with.

Lovely.

awec · 28-02-2013 07:28PM

Links234 wrote: »

First of all, I never said anyone was transphobic anywhere in this thread

And sure! Of course people are skeptical, that's understandable and it's an issue that should be discussed. But the whole thread is full of nonsense.

Seriously, watch the video here: http://kdvr.com/2013/02/26/6-year-old-transgendered-girl-fights-intolerance-parents-file-civil-rights-complaint/

Far too much is being made of the "18 Months" thing, it's like a red-herring, what the parents actually said was that they noticed things at 18 months but it was when the kid was old enough to speak that she said she was a girl. Watch the video. I don't think that she's being identifed AS trans, as if the parents or anyone else is looking at her and saying oh she's obviously trans, she herself is saying who she is. But that's somehow been lost here.

The 18 month thing is not a red herring ffs. It's the entire point of the thread.

We heard earlier that the child displayed female traits at 18 months. Nobody yet has told us what these so called female traits could be that would lead the parents to deduce that their child was presenting as female.

This is a child! A very young child. That is being forgotten here.

Hilly Bill · 28-02-2013 07:29PM

mango salsa wrote: »

You made a statement. G.K. is acting for proof of your statement.

Its not up to the parents to decide if the child is transgender or not at such a young age but the child himself when he gets old enough to make that decision himself. At that point its the parents role to support him.
18 months????? You would be hard to find proof either way at that age.

MadsL · 28-02-2013 07:29PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

What age does it stop being acceptable then?

You tell me.

Public toilets aren't death traps,

You live a sheltered life. Male public toilets have all sorts of things going on that a seven year old boy should not be around alone. Do I have to spell that out for you.

7 is an acceptable age to determine that you wish to switch gender but not to go to the bathroom by yourself?

Go to a public bathroom. Do think about this. Public, with lockable stalls.

TheChizler · 28-02-2013 07:30PM

Anyone read the huffington post article posted by Galwaygirl earlier? It seems a lot more clear on the whole 18 months red herring.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/coy-mathis-colorado-trans_n_2776472.html

Clearly the child didn't just turn a year and a half and the mother decided he was going to be a girl, it was more looking back from several years later and going, ah, that makes sense. Much like, for example, a child being diagnosed with autism or something at the age of 4 or 5 and the parents looking back and saying, you know, there were signs... I'm guessing the mother was asked by the reporter in the original article could she think back to when it could have started showing.

One major point that article makes is that the parents weren't comfortable in the child dressing as a girl outside the house until she was diagnosed by a psychologist. Some people seem to be almost thinking the mother had been entering her in beauty pageants since she was a baby.

Links234 · 28-02-2013 07:30PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

I would definitely.
There's a difference though with this case,
This lad is 7/8 now,
It's understandable that other parents of the school don't want him in the bathroom with their daughters,
Not a parent but I'd object to it if I was.
The fact of the matter is still though that the child is too young to know whether or not he wants this...

The girl is 6, according to most news reports I've read.

And there's no difference, it's a clear-cut case of discrimination and it is against the law. Doesn't matter what some other parents might think, just it wouldn't matter if some parents didn't want their kids going to school with other races/faiths, it is illegal. What the school did was against the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act, it was illegal.

And also, she's not too young to know, that's not a fact that's your own personal conjecture. Many transgender people know from a very, very young age. This isn't something new! For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Petras

awec · 28-02-2013 07:31PM

MadsL wrote: »

So you agree with the legal provisions to prevent racism, sexism, bigotry, but trans rights are just a bit of a laugh to you, and a chance to have a snigger about changing rooms. Even when someone posts their personal experience of the huge struggle they have gone through to legally walk though that changing room door with the sign that matches the gender they identify with.

Lovely.

What are you on about?

This thread isn't about racism, sexism or bigotry or prejudices experience by minority groups.

Transgender child banned from girl's bathroom

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