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Hare Coursing

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭reprazant


    Why not?

    I hope, btw, you are not going to take that statement out of the context of the discussion it was in and in particular to the post it was in reply to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Matt_Trakker


    I wonder were these Roman times how many posters would've gone to see Gladiator fights in the local hippodrome?
    I think I probably would've if I'm being totally honest.

    Like that recent film, the Hunger Games, it was muck, but the idea was cool, as was the Japanese film Battle Royale.
    If it was real I don't know if I'd watch it....but I reckon I'd be pulled in and then horrified.
    Remember watching that film about the suicides off the Golden Gate bridge...at first I thought it would be interesting, but then as soon as the first dude jumped I felt awful.

    Still tho, I stick by my earlier posts, I'm all for hare coursing and I'd go to an event if any were staged where I live.


  • Site Banned Posts: 45 fourleafclover


    reprazant wrote: »

    No, I am saying it should be banned as it inflicts unnecessary cruelty onto the hares for not other reason than for the viewing masses to get their rocks off, whether it is legal or not.


    you must know very little about coursing reprazant. if coursing was to be cruel to the hare and cause a decline in hare population there would be no hare coursing?!! furthermore coursing is to view the ability of two greyhounds competing against each other. these greyhounds through their breeding do not chase mechanical lures and in a very rare cases get near enough to the hare to touch it. perhaps you should go and view the spectacle for yourself sometime, you will realise the coursing supporters always reserve the biggest cheer for when the hare gets to the escape safely and soundly. to say some hares do not get injured would be a lie but from the national meeting in clonmel where 193 courses took place one hare was injured.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,788 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    7 7 12 wrote: »
    Source for this? You haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. And anyway it doesn't even matter whether their fear is on the same level as ours, I'm sure given the choice to participate or not in brutality like this - they would choose not to.
    Have a read of this : http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/animals-feel-fear-and-pain
    That animals display signs of stress after a stressful situation proves nothing about animals ability to foresee danger. All animals have an awareness of danger at all times but they can't imagine what will happen to them, that kind of mental ability is reserved for a minority of animals.
    archer22 wrote: »
    Then why do they start crying when they are caught then?..I will tell you why because there is only one logical explanation..Its because they DO have the imagination to anticipate what is going to happen next.And those that have heard them cry can be in no doubt but that they feel abject terror.
    This makes no sense. That an animal cries out at the moment of capture is in no way an indication that they have an imagination, if anything it proves the opposite otherwise they would have been crying before they got captured.
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Animals cant develop post traumatic symptoms? Look around any dog pound and youll see otherwise. Read up on reports of animals rescued from violent owners.
    Again your comparing two completely different scenarios. Your comparing animals suffering long term abuse to an animal that is going through a short lived stressful situation that's really no different than it would experience in the wild.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Why has this turned into a discussion on the psychological and mental capabilities of animals?


    It's about putting animals in a situation where they may get mauled solely for enjoyment and whether that's ok or not (Protip: it's not).


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    r
    May i point out that this emotive language such as animals being killed, torn to shreds etc is a far distance from the truth, in coursing, greyhounds are muzzled and do not harm the hare as seems to be outlined on this thread. in fact it shows ignorance on the part of some people posting when they do not have the faintest idea of what they are discussing. it is quite a pity this is not an informed debate

    I have to strongly disagree with you on this. A friend of mine worked in an animal rescue charity shop. One day a man came in with boxes of donations. When the boxes were opened they contained many framed photographs of unmuzzled dogs ripping hares apart while spectators in the background had huge smiles of enjoyment on their faces, they were clearly enjoying what they were witnessing.

    FFS what kind of sick cnut thinks that giving those sort of images to an animal charity is appropriate. More to the point what sort of sick cnut would want those images displayed in their homes. I saw those photographs and I didn't know whether to cry or vomit.

    Also what is happening to many of the dogs is disgraceful, many are abandoned after they are no longer deemed useful/financially beneficial to the owners. There have been a spate of incidents were these dogs have been found shot and mutilated in order to avoid the ID marks being found and therefore disguising the owners identity.


  • Site Banned Posts: 45 fourleafclover


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Why has this turned into a discussion on the psychological and mental capabilities of animals?


    It's about putting animals in a situation where they may get mauled solely for enjoyment and whether that's ok or not (Protip: it's not).


    that is an absolute lie!! coursing is nothing to do with enjoyment of anything getting mauled. that is a scurrious statement to get emotive response. you either know very little about coursing or are quite happy to lie to your own advantage.

    i will take you back to the fact that in the national meeting in clonmel 193 courses took place, one hare was injured (unfortunately). the hares then released back to the wild have been innoculated for disease, fed properly and are therefore in a much better state of health to thrive in the wild


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    that is an absolute lie!! coursing is nothing to do with enjoyment of anything getting mauled.

    I never suggested the enjoyment was derived from the animal being mauled.


  • Site Banned Posts: 45 fourleafclover


    r

    I have to strongly disagree with you on this. A friend of mine worked in an animal rescue charity shop. One day a man came in with boxes of donations. When the boxes were opened they contained many framed photographs of unmuzzled dogs ripping hares apart while spectators in the background had huge smiles of enjoyment on their faces, they were clearly enjoying what they were witnessing.

    FFS what kind of sick cnut thinks that giving those sort of images to an animal charity is appropriate. More to the point what sort of sick cnut would want those images displayed in their homes. I saw those photographs and I didn't know whether to cry or vomit.

    Also what is happening to many of the dogs is disgraceful, many are abandoned after they are no longer deemed useful/financially beneficial to the owners. There have been a spate of incidents were these dogs have been found shot and mutilated in order to avoid the ID marks being found and therefore disguising the owners identity.


    since 1994 all park coursing dogs have to be muzzled. that is fact.

    did the photographer in question win a prize as to be able to both focus on the action and also take in the crowds faces via a photograph is still impossible to do to this very day so i suggest you are telling a little lie!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    since 1994 all park coursing dogs have to be muzzled. that is fact.

    did the photographer in question win a prize as to be able to both focus on the action and also take in the crowds faces via a photograph is still impossible to do to this very day so i suggest you are telling a little lie!!
    As I said, there were many framed photographs in those boxes. I find hare coursing disgusting and so I see those images as being obscene. You seem to support hare coursing and you're implying that I'm a liar. How dare you accuse me of lying.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The only dumb animals are the ones watching it.

    Yup more like "frightened animals" (and dumb people)

    I often question the intellect of those who get kicks out of watching animals suffer. Not to mention the mindlessness of gambling. Combine the two to create a super-imbecile lol


  • Site Banned Posts: 45 fourleafclover


    As I said, there were many framed photographs in those boxes. I find hare coursing disgusting and so I see those images as being obscene. You seem to support hare coursing and you're implying that I'm a liar. How dare you accuse me of lying.


    i do call you a liar as you can not focus on two things at once with a camera. why dont you post up these images and prove me wrong?!
    you do not seem to understand what hare coursing is or that greyhounds have been muzzled since 1994 therefore an inability to tear a hare to shreds as you outlined above.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    I'm curious - do the people who support this know of the background of groups like ICABS? Of their links to fairly dodgy characters?

    ICABS Watch.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    i do call you a liar as you can not focus on two things at once with a camera. why dont you post up these images and prove me wrong?!
    you do not seem to understand what hare coursing is or that greyhounds have been muzzled since 1994 therefore an inability to tear a hare to shreds as you outlined above.

    The photographs were given to the gardai as the images were of unmuzzled coursing. The photos were taken in fields with the spectators being very close to the 'action' so to speak, not very hard to capture the photos if you take a photo of something thats happening right in front of you. You need a serious attitude adjustment if you think it's acceptable to accuse someone of lying when they oppose your opinion of something.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,171 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    I don't know about you but I don't generally watch things like that for enjoyment but to learn and observe animals in their natural state. The last thing I would be doing is smiling when something is being killed.

    I don't understand why you would watch a programme of your own free will if you're not deriving any enjoyment of it. Re-name it self-education or interest if you will, but it's the same thing.

    Those programmes are always filmed and narrated in such a way as to get the viewer to identify with the hunter or or root for the prey. In the same way, it's much easier to anthropomorphise the hare and demonise the spectator in order to entrench a position of good vs. evil that it is to equivocate two instances of human beings' natural fascination with the macabre.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,788 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    i do call you a liar as you can not focus on two things at once with a camera. why dont you post up these images and prove me wrong?!
    You can have any range of focus you want with the right equipment. Most DSLR cameras have a focal range that goes from very shallow to very thing in focus. It's not at all difficult to have both the dogs in the foreground in focus a well as the background. Older cameras often had only one focus range so they'd try to have the widest focal range.


  • Site Banned Posts: 45 fourleafclover



    The photographs were given to the gardai as the images were of unmuzzled coursing. The photos were taken in fields with the spectators being very close to the 'action' so to speak, not very hard to capture the photos if you take a photo of something thats happening right in front of you. You need a serious attitude adjustment if you think it's acceptable to accuse someone of lying when they oppose your opinion of something.


    hahaha, oh my dear lord, you are telling me now that photographs from god knows what decade or year were handed to the gardai, will you please stop making a mockery of your own opinions by telling fibs!!

    i accuse you of lying because i know you can not accurately focus on two things at once and now when i gave you the opportunity to post up the images you tell me they have been handed to the gardai, will you pull the other one!! may i ask what garda station, what date, what investigation?

    you are lying to try and strengthen a very weak argument and you have been found out, tut tut tut.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    hahaha, oh my dear lord, you are telling me now that photographs from god knows what decade or year were handed to the gardai, will you please stop making a mockery of your own opinions by telling fibs!!

    i accuse you of lying because i know you can not focus on two things at once and now when i gave you the opportunity to post up the images you tell me they have been handed to the gardai, will you pull the other one!! may i ask what garda station, what date, what investigation?

    you are lying to try and strengthen a very weak argument and you have been found out, tut tut tut.

    It was an animal welfare charity shop, why woulnd't they pass the images on to the gardai. I think you are the one with the weak argument. You are calling me a liar based on camera angles. I have no problem stating that I know very little about cameras. I only know what I saw in the photographs. It was last year that the photographs were given to the charity shop.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭reprazant


    i accuse you of lying because i know you can not accurately focus on two things at once

    c3ca8a6c3f1d38bcfcc711aadde1d279_large.jpg

    Really, you can. Everyone in this picture can be made out easily.


  • Site Banned Posts: 45 fourleafclover



    It was an animal welfare charity shop, why woulnd't they pass the images on to the gardai. I think you are the one with the weak argument. You are calling me a liar based on camera angles. I have no problem stating that I know very little about cameras. I only know what I saw in the photographs. It was last year that the photographs were given to the charity shop.


    so now you do not know for certain if they were passed on or not?

    what year would you have put on these photographs yourself? judging by spectators attire, photo aging etc?

    all park coursing dogs have been muzzled since 1994, therefore the pictures you purport to have seen were not taken in ireland unless pre 1994 and if you are saying that people had grins on their faces i can assure you these images never existed as without the hare there is no coursing and the greatest cheer is always for when the hare reaches the escape safely. perhaps you should go sometime and allow yourself an educated opinion.


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  • Site Banned Posts: 45 fourleafclover


    reprazant wrote: »

    c3ca8a6c3f1d38bcfcc711aadde1d279_large.jpg

    Really, you can. Everyone in this picture can be made out easily.


    Really??
    so what is the facial expression on the man in the left background? he is possibly less than 10 metres from the man with the ball.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭reprazant


    Pretty much the same as the guy on the back right of the picture.

    A mixture between slightly confused and blankly staring. He has a slight frown on him as well, possibly due to what he is looking at off the picture.

    I don't know, I found it pretty easy to make out everyone's expression.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,033 ✭✭✭uch


    Ah c'mon now, we've all chased a bit of Hare around at one stage or another

    21/25



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,788 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Really??
    so what is the facial expression on the man in the left background? he is possibly less than 10 metres from the man with the ball.

    Here's a picture I took specifically to test these types of photos, you set the camera to F22 and everything from the grass in the foreground to the hills off in the distance is in the same focus.


  • Site Banned Posts: 45 fourleafclover


    reprazant wrote: »
    Pretty much the same as the guy on the back right of the picture.

    A mixture between slightly confused and blankly staring. He has a slight frown on him as well, possibly due to what he is looking at off the picture.

    I don't know, I found it pretty easy to make out everyone's expression.


    i dont know who you are trying to fool with that answer apart from yourself, anybody reading this thread can see that you cannot see whats on this mans face.

    next you will be telling me he is frowning because there is a coursing meeting on longside him and he is staring blankly at it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    so now you do not know for certain if they were passed on or not?

    what year would you have put on these photographs yourself? judging by spectators attire, photo aging etc?

    all park coursing dogs have been muzzled since 1994, therefore the pictures you purport to have seen were not taken in ireland unless pre 1994 and if you are saying that people had grins on their faces i can assure you these images never existed as without the hare there is no coursing and the greatest cheer is always for when the hare reaches the escape safely. perhaps you should go sometime and allow yourself an educated opinion.

    My focus was on what was happening to the animals not the spectators. Quite often the gardai will contact local rescues for help with animals that have been brought to their attention and the rescues will take the animals in. The dog warden can't be everywhere at once. There would be a good relationship between the charity and local gardai. The photographs were passed on, I've no idea what happened after that. At a guess I would say that the charity was cluthing at straws in the hope that someone could be identified, possibly from having a gun licence etc. I really don't know.

    As I said my attention was focused mostly on what was happening to the animals not the spectators. Tell me when you go to watch hare coursing what are you watching the coursing or the crowd? Your condescending attitude really doesn't do you any favours.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    I don't understand why you would watch a programme of your own free will if you're not deriving any enjoyment of it. Re-name it self-education or interest if you will, but it's the same thing.

    Those programmes are always filmed and narrated in such a way as to get the viewer to identify with the hunter or or root for the prey. In the same way, it's much easier to anthropomorphise the hare and demonise the spectator in order to entrench a position of good vs. evil that it is to equivocate two instances of human beings' natural fascination with the macabre.

    What I take from wildlife documentaries is that nature is an unstoppable force that has no time for our sentiments on its beauty or cruelty. FWIW I hate the overwrought music some of them use to manipulate the viewer.

    However, it's not anthropomorphising the hare to think that human nature has the potential to rise above coursing it for fun.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭reprazant


    i dont know who you are trying to fool with that answer apart from yourself, anybody reading this thread can see that you cannot see whats on this mans face.

    next you will be telling me he is frowning because there is a coursing meeting on longside him and he is staring blankly at it.

    I don't give a toss about the course meeting or whether those photos are real are not.

    I am saying that you can take a photo where you can see the foreground and the background, which you plainly can. Scumlord has even shown an example he has taken himself which does just that. There are sports photos which show the action on the field/pitch and you can see the faces of the crowd. It can be done.


  • Site Banned Posts: 45 fourleafclover



    My focus was on what was happening to the animals not the spectators. Quite often the gardai will contact local rescues for help with animals that have been brought to their attention and the rescues will take the animals in. The dog warden can't be everywhere at once. There would be a good relationship between the charity and local gardai. The photographs were passed on, I've no idea what happened after that. At a guess I would say that the charity was cluthing at straws in the hope that someone could be identified, possibly from having a gun licence etc. I really don't know.

    As I said my attention was focused mostly on what was happening to the animals not the spectators. Tell me when you go to watch hare coursing what are you watching the coursing or the crowd? Your condescending attitude really doesn't do you any favours.


    i'm far from condescending but you have now lied for the third time - you have said that the spectators were grinning and now you seem to be changing your mind and that you were looking at what was happening and not the spectators.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Hm. Awful lot of posts in this thread contain allegations which, if they had attached any specific name, would see the posters landed in court on defamation charges.
    That doesn't sound like reasoned debate to me.
    It sounds like either a debate unencumbered by knowledge of the law surrounding animal welfare, or one heavily encumbered by Disney-inspired emotion.

    And given that the last time I saw the head of ICABS (the group that started the poll in the OP), she was standing shoulder-to-shoulder with people like Roger Yates (served four years in the UK for conspiracy to build incendary devices for ALF at a time when they were sending them through the post to people they didn't like), I have serious misgivings about the bona fides of this entire thing.


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