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Transgender child banned from girl's bathroom

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Comments

  • #92
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    The Maverick wrote: »
    What if the 4 year old decides they want to be an animal? A dog perhaps. Seeing as by your logic the 4 year old is clearly a rational, logical human being, should he/she be allowed to do this?

    Obviously put a collar on him and bring him for walks or are you a suppressed bigot? :pac:


  • #93
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    true-or-false wrote: »
    Just the one from my count.

    Meaning?


  • #94
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    MadsL wrote: »
    Why the hostility for what seems reasonable accommodation by the parents? Not like they rushed into gender reassignment surgery.

    Lot of overly-threatened people round here.

    I think you're acting in an overly aggressive manner, and it's unwarranted, and throughout this thread you have consistently put words into peoples mouths (Fingers?), purposefully misconstrued what they have posted and made everyone out to be a raving bigot. How about you take a step back like you're screaming and ranting at everyone else to do instead of telling everyone to be ashamed for themselves because you think they believe boys shouldn't play with dolls, despite no one in this thread saying anything like that at all.


  • #95
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Surely nobody knows what they are until puberty. How can you define your sex until you have sexual maturity?


  • #96
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    MadsL wrote: »
    So she should be forced to be dressed and present as a boy until puberty? Really?
    You know I said nothing of the sort. If anything I said nothing should be forced on a child, unlike you seemingly supporting same, just not in the traditional sense. Quit trolling and looking for attention, it's pathetic.


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  • #97
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    MadsL wrote: »
    So she should be forced to be dressed and present as a boy until puberty? Really?
    I think you fail to realise just how young and undeveloped an 18 month old is...


  • #98
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    MadsL wrote: »

    Lot of overly-threatened people round here.

    There's the other chestnut: Disagree with me and you're threatened by what I am.

    Whatever.


  • #99
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Bipolar Joe wrote: »
    MadSL, are you drunk or just feeling overly belligerent tonight?
    strobe wrote: »
    If you're not trolling, lease tell me you're just very very very atrociously drunk?
    MonkstownHoop wrote: »
    reasonable? you are drunk

    :o

    So we're going with drunk, then?
    :pac:


  • #100
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    MadsL wrote: »
    So she should be forced to be dressed and present as a boy until puberty? Really?

    I'm sure the birthcert states "male".

    It's normal to dress a male as a male until the kid is wise enough and mature enough to choose if they so wish.


  • #101
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Not necessarily. There is one of these kids near where I live. She is from a large family and genuinely, truly believes she is a boy, to the extent there are problems with her attending the girls school, because she believes she is a boy, as strongly as you believe you are a woman. The parents definitely did not force this on her but eventually gave into her own definitions of her identity. But it is difficult because the schools are single sex, and that has caused some problems.

    True, a friend of mine realised at a very young age that he was a man, and not a girl and loathed having to go through all female schools for the entirety of his education. Thankfully now he gets to lead the life he wants, but it was a self-realisation, and not as young as 18 months.
    MadsL wrote: »
    At the age of 4 this kid was telling the parents there was something wrong with her body. But you want to tell this kid you know better.

    I think they are influencing the child (and I say the as opposed to gender specific terms because I do not know how the child truly feels regarding it's gender) and not letting Coy grow for a few years and then realise, even at a young stage, that there was something just not sitting right with how things were in the genitalia dept. Even at 4 Coy could easily have recognised personally more as a female than a male, but it should have been a personal realisation, not one fed to you since toddler-hood, would you not agree?


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  • #102
    kupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭kupus


    Originally Posted by MadsL

    Nice to see good old Catholic Ireland ain't so far below the surface.

    Oh I can feel the liberal strong in this one. ohhh

    Any way as far as I ever see if you disagree with a liberal you can expect insults, insinuations and other churlish uncouth things unbecoming of such an open expansive mind.


  • #103
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    true-or-false wrote: »
    , how is it ok to label your child as transgender at 18 months old? Surely that is an equally unfair pressure?

    They didn't. Coy did. At the age of four.

    You just don't want to believe a child can understand anything about their own gender identity. Most transexuals relate the body issues they had right back to being small children.

    I don't know why that truth makes AHs so 'squirmy'.


  • #104
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    I have to agree that 18 months is very suspicious.


  • #105
    The Maverick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 417 ✭✭The Maverick


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Obviously put a collar on him and bring him for walks or are you a suppressed bigot? :pac:

    A bigot of the highest order, all thanks to good old Catholic Ireland, Fianna Faíl, Anglo Irish Bank or whichever one is the flavour of the month right now.


  • #106
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    MadsL wrote: »
    They didn't. Coy did. At the age of four.

    You just don't want to believe a child can understand anything about their own gender identity. Most transexuals relate the body issues they had right back to being small children.

    I don't know why that truth makes AHs so 'squirmy'.

    Nobody's squirming. All I can see is a lot of people calling BS on a blatant attempt to win the discrimination lottery payout.


  • #107
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Praetorian Saighdiuir wrote: »
    I'm sure the birthcert states "male".

    It's normal to dress a male as a male until the kid is wise enough and mature enough to choose if they so wish.

    What age would that be? 18?


  • #108
    Bipolar Joe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    MadsL wrote: »
    They didn't. Coy did. At the age of four.

    You just don't want to believe a child can understand anything about their own gender identity. Most transexuals relate the body issues they had right back to being small children.

    I don't know why that truth makes AHs so 'squirmy'.

    It is not making anyone "Squirmy." It's making you "Annoying," though.


  • #109
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Not necessarily. There is one of these kids near where I live. She is from a large family and genuinely, truly believes she is a boy, to the extent there are problems with her attending the girls school, because she believes she is a boy, as strongly as you believe you are a woman. The parents definitely did not force this on her but eventually gave into her own definitions of her identity. But it is difficult because the schools are single sex, and that has caused some problems.
    But she's obviously much older than 18 months.


  • #110
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    MadsL wrote: »
    What age would that be? 18?

    When they have reached sexual maturity?


  • #111
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    MadsL wrote: »
    What age would that be? 18?

    I wouldn't put an age on it like you would, everyone matures differently once they can grasp the pro's & con's of their decisions.

    .........BUT CERTAINTLY NOT 18 MONTHS OR 4 YEARS OLD. :rolleyes:

    I know kids at that age that piss the bed and eat muck from the garden.......geniuses and world assured at that age!


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  • #112
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    One thing that's obvious to is that if a child is gender conditioned from 18 months of age, is their agency in that regard at 6 years old completely objective as regards their own burgeoning gender identity?


  • #113
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    Jester252 wrote: »
    Surely nobody knows what they are until puberty. How can you define your sex until you have sexual maturity?

    It can be defined before that, though I have not experienced it personally, I have seen with a close friend the process in which a person realises their gender does not match their assigned body parts. For my friend, puberty was the final nail in the coffin and confirmed what he had believed all along. That he was a man, not a woman.
    MadsL wrote: »
    They didn't. Coy did. At the age of four.

    You just don't want to believe a child can understand anything about their own gender identity. Most transexuals relate the body issues they had right back to being small children.

    But they started this when Coy was 18 months, if Coy started it at even, say 3 years, it would be one thing, but it was the parents who pushed it at a age where Coy would know no different.


  • #114
    Henlars67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Henlars67


    It is child abuse plain and simple.

    The poster who thinks that this is perfectly normal isn't deserving of engagement on this issue and should be ignored.


  • #115
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Madam_X wrote: »
    But she's obviously much older than 18 months.

    She is about 8 now. I don't know when it started dawning on them.

    To be honest I don't know what I think about it all, as in should she be allowed to go to the boys school and the boys bathroom, etc.

    It gets even trickier when it comes to older schools where there are showers and changing rooms.


  • #116
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    I have to agree that 18 months is very suspicious.

    Played with 'girls' toys from 18 months, identified as a girl fom the age of four.
    Then, Coy told them he only wanted to wear girls' clothes. At school, he became upset when his teacher insisted he line up with the boys. All the while, he was becoming depressed and withdrawn, telling his parents at one point he wanted to get "fixed" by doctors

    But obviously the parents are evil as the child is "different".


  • #117
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    I'm not sure if the parents ever looked into it, but how many professionals would actually advise "gender reassignment" for an 18th month old Child?


  • #118
    MadsL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Henlars67 wrote: »
    It is child abuse plain and simple.

    The poster who thinks that this is perfectly normal isn't deserving of engagement on this issue and should be ignored.

    Oh. Ignored you say. How very enlightened.


  • #119
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    MadsL wrote: »
    They didn't. Coy did. At the age of four.

    You just don't want to believe a child can understand anything about their own gender identity. Most transexuals relate the body issues they had right back to being small children.

    I don't know why that truth makes AHs so 'squirmy'.

    So are you saying that if you notice your child has shown an interest towards girl's toys or something silly at the age of one you would take this as him coming to terms with his gender and therefore dress him up as a girl?

    If the child grew up past puberty and believes that he is a transgender then fair enough, but at 18 months children don't associate themselves with any gender or sexuality.

    I'm neither Catholic nor new to the idea of transgenders, I'm a sibling of one.


  • #120
    La_Gordy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭La_Gordy


    Jester252 wrote: »
    When they have reached sexual maturity?

    Many transgender people are aware of their own gender identity prior to sexual maturity, and the more sexually mature one is, the less natural the transition is going to appear.

    Very very tough for all involved, the 18 months does sound too young but if it's the case, then at least the parents are trying to be supportive.


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  • #121
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    Madam_X wrote: »
    But she's obviously much older than 18 months.

    We don't know that the parents were all set on the transgender diagnosis when the child was 18 months. It sounds to me like they have a 6 year old child who insists on being a girl, and they're trying to make sense of it by recalling possibly unrelated things from the toddler phase.

    I agree with you that they're really not helping by jumping the gun on the child's development though.


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