Is multiculturalism wanted??

Dwork · 22-02-2013 12:23AM

Nodin wrote: »

Thats a very narky religion ye have there. Have ye offered it tay and a biccie or two?

I did, but they said it wasn't Halal tea and it was Ramadan so biccies were off, on the upside, they did say I could chuck away my razor, as having a beard was the done thing. Good times. Missus isn't best pleased about her new world view, it's a bit veiled...not.

Dwork · 22-02-2013 12:23AM

P_1 wrote: »

It's a bit of a viscous circle though, I think it's a bit over simplistic to say that "the only way to make them feel French is to treat them as French". Yes the French have a responsibility to make the Arabs and North Africans welcome, similarly the Arabs and North Africans have a responsibility to make the French want to welcome them.

ohh, it's sticky allright. Also, your post is bent, utterly. Do the N.Africans welcome the French into their country? And their culture? Doubtful old son.

Johro · 22-02-2013 12:24AM

Nodin wrote: »

Thats a very narky religion ye have there. Have ye offered it tay and a biccie or two?

That post got edited. Which makes the following one dead on.

Nodin · 22-02-2013 12:28AM

Dwork wrote: »

ohh, it's sticky allright. Also, your post is bent, utterly. Do the N.Africans welcome the French into their country? And their culture? Doubtful old son.

...well that may have something to do with France's colonial past.

Johro · 22-02-2013 12:28AM

Dwork wrote: »

ohh, it's sticky allright. Also, your post is bent, utterly. Do the N.Africans welcome the French into their country? And their culture? Doubtful old son.

Well they did come with soldiers.

Johro · 22-02-2013 12:29AM

Lol. Snap!

Dwork · 22-02-2013 12:37AM

Johro wrote: »

Well they did come with soldiers.

Yeah, and if you didn't have soldiers now, you'd have a beard, and your wife would be wearing a hijab. Mine doesn't like hijabs, I'll not be bending the knee just yet. You multiculturalise ahead.

Herb Powell · 22-02-2013 12:40AM

Dwork wrote: »

Yeah, and if you didn't have soldiers now, you'd have a beard, and your wife would be wearing a hijab. Mine doesn't like hijabs, I'll not be bending the knee just yet. You multiculturalise ahead.

Never go full-retard

Johro · 22-02-2013 12:41AM

Nah I'm alright as I am thanks.

P_1 · 22-02-2013 12:41AM

Herb Powell wrote: »

Never go full-retard

We have a hungry one tonight ladies and gents

Herb Powell · 22-02-2013 12:44AM

Come at me, bro!

Johro · 22-02-2013 12:44AM

Dwork wrote: »

Yeah, and if you didn't have soldiers now, you'd have a beard, and your wife would be wearing a hijab. Mine doesn't like hijabs, I'll not be bending the knee just yet. You multiculturalise ahead.

I don't have a wife. I have a girlfriend. I won't be bending the knee. Ever.

Dwork · 22-02-2013 12:51AM

Johro wrote: »

I don't have a wife. I have a girlfriend. I won't be bending the knee. Ever.

So, what's it to be? Multicultural or "rascist"? You seem to want your cake and eat it.

Tolerance seems to be a very western ideal, the Mohammedans struggle a bit with it as a concept.

Johro · 22-02-2013 01:01AM

Dwork wrote: »

So, what's it to be? Multicultural or "rascist"? You seem to want your cake and eat it. Tolerance seems to be a very western ideal, the Mohammedans struggle a bit with it as a concept.

Some do, most don't. You forget that muslims aren't the same wherever you go, they have fanatics just as the western world has fanatics, plenty of religious nutters of the christian kind. Most of them want the same as you do, family, a job, security, iphone and football on the telly, all the boring stuff. They're not all making bombs and plotting you know.

Herb Powell · 22-02-2013 01:01AM

Dwork wrote: »

So, what's it to be? Multicultural or "rascist"? You seem to want your cake and eat it. Tolerance seems to be a very western ideal, the Mohammedans struggle a bit with it as a concept.

Here, I don't wanna be a pricck, but you keep typing and I have no idea what you're trying to say (other than you don't like muslims). Slow down.

Dwork · 22-02-2013 01:07AM

Herb Powell wrote: »

Here, I don't wanna be a pricck, but you keep typing and I have no idea what you're trying to say (other than you don't like muslims). Slow down.

Wrong. My best friend as a kid was Muslim, still is as it happens. Cliche that it is, and i'd have a muslim view of religion, ie be devout or get out, but I am also a severe, devout realist. As such, I know what the Muslim view of westerners is, and what their attitude to our "conversion" is. I don't fancy being converted, thanks all the same. And moderates never set the pace in any movement, that honour goes to the extremists. Extremists are always better motivated.

Johro · 22-02-2013 01:21AM

Dwork wrote: »

Wrong. My best friend as a kid was Muslim, still is as it happens. Cliche that it is, and i'd have a muslim view of religion, ie be devout or get out, but I am also a severe, devout realist. As such, I know what the Muslim view of westerners is, and what their attitude to our "conversion" is. I don't fancy being converted, thanks all the same. And moderates never set the pace in any movement, that honour goes to the extremists. Extremists are always better motivated.

Ya have to give it to psychotic maniacs. They're committed.

Dwork · 22-02-2013 01:39AM

Johro wrote: »

Ya have to give it to psychotic maniacs. They're committed.

Very true. I also think they will prevail. That might not be a good thing..

AlekSmart · 22-02-2013 03:26AM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Greatest load of bollocks I have read on boards since I joined.
I am a believer in Multiculturalism, I live in Irelands most diverse town, my neighbours include Poles,Nigerians, Ghanians , and a multitute of varying races and nationalities.
My kids go to school and play sport with their friends of these nationalities and races.
My Barber is Iraqi, my accountant is from Pakistan and one of my employees is Lithuanian.
So you can put that small minded, bitter, idiotic and facile theory back in the box where it belongs!

PS. You can get help with what you yourself describe as your "Inferiority Complex", based on the quoted post you clearly need it!

Nothing like a bit of stridency in a response.

I've the highest regard for your personal affinity for Multiculuralism,and by your own accounts your immersion in it's welcoming embrace.

However,for all of that,the Ireland through which I travel must therefore full of "Small Minded,Bitter,Idiotic and Facile theorists,cos the views I mentioned originally did'nt simply materialize from my own complex,but inferior mind (;))

Perhaps living in Irelands most diverse town (Culturally,I presume ?) ensures that you tend to encounter expressions of opinion more in keeping with your personal ideology ?

Whilst I do patronize a variety of (cheap) barbers from the Indian sub-continent,I sadly can't stretch to an accountant of any hue.

In addition,since I am not an employer myself,I cannot offer any real opinion on whether employing a Lithuanian confers any better insight into Multiculturalism per se.

So,Bollocks or not,Wiley,I remain quite content in the knowledge that whilst you have found your personal Multicultural Irish haven,such a place might not actually be very high on the list of a significant amount of other people in this country,and not all of them native Irish either.

As MaxSteele sez here....(#432)

I just don't get the cliquey defense mechanism that kicks in with certain posters when to their horror .... other people are actually happy with the demographic status quo.

I don't get it either Max

AlekSmart · 22-02-2013 03:36AM

Dwork wrote: »

Wrong. My best friend as a kid was Muslim, still is as it happens. Cliche that it is, and i'd have a muslim view of religion, ie be devout or get out, but I am also a severe, devout realist. As such, I know what the Muslim view of westerners is, and what their attitude to our "conversion" is. I don't fancy being converted, thanks all the same. And moderates never set the pace in any movement, that honour goes to the extremists. Extremists are always better motivated.

The mention of "Extremists" and "Honour" in the same sentence appears particularly deeply embedded in modern Islamic practice.

For me,back in the early 2000's,watching Islamic Extremists ensure their religions "Honour" by beheading Ken Bigley,Jack Hensley and Eugene Armstrong and circulating the video footage of their particular committment to their "God" was enough to stifle any great regard I may have felt for their cause.

Whilst this is a specific single example,it does still have a bearing on the broader question in the Thread Title....Is Multiculturalism Wanted ?...to which I would add (Anywhere).

Death and Taxes · 22-02-2013 08:43AM

AlekSmart wrote: »

Nothing like a bit of stridency in a response.

I've the highest regard for your personal affinity for Multiculuralism,and by your own accounts your immersion in it's welcoming embrace.

However,for all of that,the Ireland through which I travel must therefore full of "Small Minded,Bitter,Idiotic and Facile theorists,cos the views I mentioned originally did'nt simply materialize from my own complex,but inferior mind (;))If that cap fits and you're happy to wear it, fair play to you

Perhaps living in Irelands most diverse town (Culturally,I presume ?) ensures that you tend to encounter expressions of opinion more in keeping with your personal ideology ?What ideology is that? Multiculturalism and mutually respect are not ideologies.

Whilst I do patronize a variety of (cheap) barbers from the Indian sub-continent Mine is from Iraq a long way from India and no cheaper than any other,I sadly can't stretch to an accountant of any hue( I require an accountant, its a necessity).

In addition,since I am not an employer myself,I cannot offer any real opinion on whether employing a Lithuanian confers any better insight into Multiculturalism per se.It infers a wilingness to accept that the best person for the job gets it, regardless of race,colour,creed, or nationality)

So,Bollocks or not,Wiley,I remain quite content in the knowledge that whilst you have found your personal Multicultural Irish haven,such a place might not actually be very high on the list of a significant amount of other people in this country,and not all of them native Irish either.

As MaxSteele sez here....(#432)

I don't get it either Max

I note that nothing in above addresses your earlier rant accusing those of us who favour multiculturalism of being middle class nimbys who have adopted a cause , but are unprepared to to actual accept it in our own neighbourhoods or in our own lives.

Pherekydes · 22-02-2013 09:09AM

MaxSteele wrote: »

... other people are actually happy with the demographic status quo.

The demographic status quo is never going to happen. It's a physical impossibility, unless you want siblings breeding together?

Pick your own mate, but don't pick mine.

philologos · 22-02-2013 09:28AM

Dwork wrote: »

So, my Religion is to convert all the other Religions to my religion, but ye mugs need to "tolerate" my religion, die infidel, die, sorry, tolerate, Infidel. feck off. My old lad always said the Mohammedans were the biggest threat to western society that existed. I'd no idea what he was on about, tbh, but I do now. We''ll "tolerate" and "multiculturalise" our way into oblivion, IMO. Am I rascist? No. Am I intolerant of other religions? Yes. Why? Because they are intolerant of mine. If you think they either like or want to "integrate" with Christians, you're a fool. And a dangerous fool at that. And if you disagree, best of luck to you.

Christianity is an evangelical religion. God longs for all to be saved (1 Timothy 2:1-7) and Jesus came to seek and to save the lost (Luke 19:10). So on the conversion front Christians want all to know the Gospel. That's very clear from Scripture.

Part of freedom of religion means that people are free to evangelise. Muslims are free to share their faith and others have every reason to share those. I don't think its a big deal unless they are ramming legislation in that would undermine the freedoms of non-Muslims.

LincolnsBeard · 22-02-2013 09:29AM

There used to be such a thing as a Londoner. Cockneys in London were a defining part of the city like Geordies in Newcastle. Strong white working class communities in London have basically disappeared now. They have been pushed outward.

Evilsbane · 22-02-2013 09:47AM

My opinion on the whole thing is that although there are certain things that a host nation doesn't need to compromise on (eg Ireland shouldn't have to change its laws to accommodate every aspect of Sharia), and although I think if you move to an English-speaking country you should learn English, I also think that immigrants tend to be politer and better neighbors than a lot of Irish people.

Around 2005 I lived across the road from the National Mosque on the South Circular Road, and let me tell you, Muslims are nice friendly people who make an effort not to put anyone out, and like to fit in as much as anyone else.

The only negative experience I've had with multiculturalism is when I worked in Dell around 2008 and the Polish workers there made no attempt to speak English, so while they had grand auld chats amongst themselves on the production line I was forced to stand in the middle of them with no opportunity to join in.

Ghettoization is a concern and I'd rather if communities integrated more, but I'm not convinced that that's entirely or even mostly the fault of the immigrants. Aside from the aforementioned time in Dell, any time I've been around immigrants they've been more than happy to hang out with Irish people without needing or wanting any special consideration. Frankly, I'd say if ghettos become a problem it'll probably be because of locals being unwelcoming.

Dyr · 22-02-2013 09:58AM

Johro wrote: »

Some do, most don't. You forget that muslims aren't the same wherever you go, they have fanatics just as the western world has fanatics, plenty of religious nutters of the christian kind. Most of them want the same as you do, family, a job, security, iphone and football on the telly, all the boring stuff. They're not all making bombs and plotting you know.

I'm trying to think of a western country ruled by religious fanatics where religious doctrine dictates civil law. Nope I can't think of any. So no, they are not the same, my pedigree chum.

Death and Taxes · 22-02-2013 10:04AM

Bambi wrote: »

I'm trying to think of a western country ruled by religious fanatics where religious doctrine dictates civil law. Nope I can't think of any. So no, they are not the same, my pedigree chum.

Actually you will find that the laws of most western countries stem from religious doctrine. Try reading the preable to our own constitution, or watch the TD's praying in the Dail each day before business commences.
You do realise that most Muslims do not live in countries where Sharia law is the Law of the land, I mean you do realise that don't you?

Evilsbane · 22-02-2013 10:13AM

Bambi wrote: »

I'm trying to think of a western country ruled by religious fanatics where religious doctrine dictates civil law. Nope I can't think of any. So no, they are not the same, my pedigree chum.

Ummmmmmm, the USA? And TBH abortion law in Ireland may as well carry the addendum "because the Pope said so". It's a bit naive to think that Western society doesn't have its own religious bias. It's just so normal to us as Westerners that we don't notice it.

Dyr · 22-02-2013 10:17AM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Actually you will find that the laws of most western countries stem from religious doctrine. Try reading the preable to our own constitution, or watch the TD's praying in the Dail each day before business commences.
You do realise that most Muslims do not live in countries where Sharia law is the Law of the land, I mean you do realise that don't you?

Actually you'll find that western nations have evolved into secular states, unlike our islamic friends, I mean you do realise that don't you? And you do realise that your comparisons are so stretched they'd need to be made of latex?

hooradiation · 22-02-2013 10:21AM

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

There used to be such a thing as a Londoner. .

You mean people who live in London?
Yeah, there's still about 8,174,100 of them there, i wouldn't worry about them going anywhere anytime soon.

Is multiculturalism wanted??

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